Another newbie boat buying topic.

jec6

Cadet
Joined
Jan 14, 2015
Messages
9
Hi All,

Thanks for indulging in another new forum member who wants to buy his first boat thread. I have read the sticky, searched the forums and have a decent mechanical understanding of the workings of a boat. I would like some advice from experienced owners on my specific situation and a better understanding of how boat brands compare, what features to look for etc. I appreciate any feedback I get.

First, a quick introduction. I'm a 40 yr old engineer with a wife and 3 kids that lives in PA. In the fall last year, my family was fortunate enough to buy a 2nd home in the finger lakes. We've vacationed up there for the last 6 yrs and fell in love with the area. Each year we've rented either a Glastron or Larson 185 BR and used it for skiing, tubing, fishing and general boat enjoyment. The kids love the water. We've never owned a power boat, but are on our kayaks and canoes all the time.

So now that we have the lake house, the next logical place to waste money is on a boat. I'm a complete noob when it comes to boat ownership, so I would like some help from anyone on the board that can point me in the right direction.

I'm leaning towards a 2007+ 175 to 200 class bowrider. My budget needs to stay under $20k, with my wife's goal being closer to $10. It seems like most major boat manufacturers use the same Merc 3.0 engine with Alpha outdrive. Are there major differences between the Merc, and the Volvo Penta that would push me towards one over the other? How much less maintenance do you have w/ a FI engine vs a Carb? Is the step up to FI worth what seems like a $3k premium in price?

I'm leaning towards an inboard, as most of the use will be tubing/skiing and swimming off the back, but want to be sure I'm not screwing myself by not getting a better boat w/ an outboard for some reason. The boat will only be used on our lake on nice days for the above activities (ie: there is no intention on taking it to the ocean, sleeping on it, trying to survive the perfect storm etc.)

At this class/price range, are there major differences among quality of manufacturers? It seems like Bayliners have/had a bad rep based on some of their older boats, but reviews read more positively now. It looks like I can get a newer/lower hour Bayliner for the same price as an older Crownline, Larson, Sea Ray, etc. Besides this site, boattrader/boats.com and craigslist, are there any good sites to check out for sale listings?

What questions should I ask, things should I look out for, etc? I'm focused only on fresh water boats and have a couple of friends that can help inspect engine components and mechanicals. I'm not too worried about trailers, as we'll only be moving it a few miles down the road 2x / year (spring/fall). I have a boat lift at my dock (which will be covered this spring and don't have a tow vehicle anyway. Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated. The nice thing is we have cash off season, so I'm hoping to score a deal.

Based on the above, I've been shopping for a bit and found these 5 options. Assuming that they have similar maintenance histories and check out based on the sticky checklist for no fiberglass issues, water ingress, etc how would you rank them?
2011 Stingray 185 w/ FI engine:
http://www.boats.com/boat-details/Stingray-185-Ls-lx/142009841#.VLbwImd0zLQ

2008 Crownline 180 w/ FI engine. The guy is down to $14k:
http://www.boats.com/boat-details/Crownline-180-Bowrider/170348841#.VLbwM2d0zLQ

2007 Bayliner 185 flight ?carb? engine:
http://www.boats.com/boat-details/Bayliner-185-Flight-Series/164748871#.VLbwOmd0zLQ

2007 Glastron 185 (this is the brand we rented):
http://www.boattrader.com/listing/2007-Glastron-GT-185-102337411

2012 Four Winns 180 outboard:
http://www.boats.com/sites/keukalake/boat?entityid=165941321&mid=1521

thanks in advance for all your help.



______________
 

kmarine

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Nov 5, 2010
Messages
581
I like the sting ray and the crownline. As a former bayliner owner they are ok, they know how to take out a few thing to make the boat affordable. Not as durable as other brands especially in the upholstery area. Most boats use the same engines with a choice of two drive systems that have both proven reliable.
 

roscoe

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
21,657
Can't really comment on the boats listed, as only one of the links is working.

But, I would rather have a slightly older boat with a 4.3 v6, than a new boat with a 3.0.
 

thumpar

Admiral
Joined
Jun 21, 2007
Messages
6,138
Your links didn't come through but I can put the brands in order from best quality to lower quality built.

Crownline
Four Winns (that might be a tie with Crownline depending)
Glastron
Stingray
Bayliner

Some may disagree but this is how I see it. 14k for that Crownline is a great deal depending on what it has. I like having EFI because it doesn't need rebuilt but a good carb setup works. The EFI also seems to start right up. Performance wise you won't have an advantage unless it is an MPI. I am partial to Crownline after buying mine. There is a great community on the web for them too. Certain areas have meetups every year.
 

JASinIL2006

Vice Admiral
Joined
Feb 10, 2012
Messages
5,524
With the 5 of you, plus maybe a couple of friends for the kids, I would personally want something in the 19-20' range, and I wouldn't even consider anything smaller than a 4.3L. (I'd want a 5.7L, for the extra power, especially for a bigger boat.)
 

redneck joe

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Mar 18, 2009
Messages
10,198
With the 5 of you, plus maybe a couple of friends for the kids, I would personally want something in the 19-20' range, and I wouldn't even consider anything smaller than a 4.3L. (I'd want a 5.7L, for the extra power, especially for a bigger boat.)



agreed but if at a lake house the boat will probably not be full all the time. At least that was my experience growing up - we'd run and ski with only a couple then come back and next group would go out while we all played at the dock.
 

tpenfield

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Jul 18, 2011
Messages
17,620
Welcome to iBoats, JEC.

Condition of the boat is equally, if not more so a factor, than the boat brand. The higher quality brands can be mistreated during their ownership, but on the other hand, the economy brands don't improve with age. So, each boat is a unique situation.

I would suggest a marine surveyor as a contingency on the purchase and sale.

I did a similar thing to what you are doing, when I bought my first powerboat. Since I am on the ocean, I went in the 24 foot range, my budget was $10-20k . . . So, I had to go a bit older than I was originally hoping to get a decent boat. After armchair shopping about 15 brands of boat, I decided on the Formula 242, since they are build like a tank, are feature rich, well powered and designed for the ocean.

You will have quite a few boats to choose from, as many companies make boats for your type of boating. You may also want to talk to any friends that you may have at the lake to get their advise.
 
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lkbum

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Sep 1, 2008
Messages
445
I assume you are planning on docking the boat (leaving it in the water). If so, price a lift into the price of the boat. A dirty boat bottom really hinders its performance. Water stain looks bad and fiberglass absorbs water (boat gains weight) and can result in blisters. A lift for this size boat is usually around $2k and you can find thme used. Look ariunf at what your neighbors use.
 

southkogs

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Jul 7, 2010
Messages
14,783
Welcome aboard JEC:

With regards to other sites that sell boats, if you look at the top of the forum pages it has a link to Boats For Sale. iBoats has listings right here worth looking at.

Since you're looking at a boat for mostly water sports and swimming, have you looked at true inboard ski boat? You may find one in nice shape in your price range, and it's definitely the type of boat for skiing and such (though not essential at all). At our family cottage, there are typically three boats sitting at the dock: a tiller outboard rowboat (fishing, putting around, utility stuff), a pontoon (the party barge) and the bow rider (I/O 19'). What happens more often than not when we go out to play on the lake is someone takes the I/O out to pull skiers/tubers and someone else parks the 'toon out in the lake for folks to swim and lounge on. You might consider how that may come into play for you in the future too.
 

Starcraft5834

Lieutenant Commander
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Jun 2, 2013
Messages
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Welcome.......I too spend most of my time in the Finger Lakes.. I've got a 20ft cuddy with a 3.0. Works fine for me, with the right prop it does the job fine.. as you well know, the Finger Lakes are not small.. something in 20ft range with deep V will serve you well... Skaneateles is my favorite by far.. with 3 kids, I'd suggest an open bow.. you will need the room. be patient and have a marine shop check over the structural integrity and engine health.. if any potential seller objects to that, run the other way fast.. have fun! don't forget to check over the trailer health too.. nothing worse than blowing a bearing while trailering,,
 
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tpenfield

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Another point worth noting is that you could search both the Keuka lake area as well as the PA area for boats, casting a wider net. boats.oodle.com is another search that I have used in the past to find boats from a wide variety of listing sites . . . Also, you can use searchtempest.com to do an area search of craigslist sub-sites, based on keywords, etc.

The tough part of shopping/buying in the off-season is that you may not be able to do a water trial of the boat during the winter months. May be more of a possibility in the PA/Philly area versus upstate NY. Expect to have to pay for re-winterization for any boat that you water trial during the winter months.

EDIT: Just doing a quick search on boat trader . . . lots more boats listed in your range in the PA area than near Keuka lake . . .
 
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jec6

Cadet
Joined
Jan 14, 2015
Messages
9
Thanks for all the feedback so far. The house has a boat lift on our dock. I need to confirm the width, but the previous owner had a ~185 bowrider, so I know the boats I'm currently looking at will fit.

I appreciate the feedback re: go bigger. I'm torn on that, as I agree we'll have friends with us a lot and there will be times when a 180 will be too small. My counter argument (in my head) is I assume going bigger means more fuel, heavier towing, and all the other downstream costs. I also assume it makes for less maneuverability, trickier parking, etc. Being somewhat new to boats, i want to be sure I get something I can easily handle. My two oldest kids are 15 and 16, so they'll be able to take the boat out pretty soon as well.

Here's a 20ft v8 Four Winns close to my house that checks all the boxes you guys are suggesting. How much more would the ownership costs be on the 5.0 vs the 3.0?
http://www.clewsboats.com/previouslyenjoyedboats_item.html?cid=15078
 

tpenfield

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Yea, folks often worry about fuel and related operating costs . . .

a couple of points to consider.

Boats with bigger engines doing the same work (ie., water skiing or a certain number of passengers) will not use that much more fuel than the smaller engine which has to work much harder to do that same work. You might see 10% more fuel usage with the bigger engine, even though the engine is 1.5 - 2. X the displacement.

It is different than cars in that regard.

Fuel is a small part of the overall cost of owning/operating a boat, so it does not really change the total cost much. More psychological than anything else.

Bigger engines sell . . . and everyone goes to sell at some point.
 
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Starcraft5834

Lieutenant Commander
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Jun 2, 2013
Messages
1,677
that depends on how hard you push your right hand down :cool:. in boating, especially in the Finger Lakes, "bigger IS better", a normal day there with 5-10 mph winds in a smaller boat is no fun,, a 20ft boat,, no problem....... you will never be sorry you got a larger boat......its a few more bucks in reg fees, at the end of the day...... it's not that big a deal....... tandem trailer in the 5K range can be towed easily, V8 no prob..:tea:
 

thumpar

Admiral
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Jun 21, 2007
Messages
6,138
I had a 16.5' boat with the 2.5l (almost the same engine as the 3.0l just rated for 120hp). The 3.0l would be a dog in anything bigger than a 17' in my opinion. My rule of thumb is once you hit 18' 4.3l is the minimum and at 20' you need a V8. You will only use more fuel if you use the full power of the bigger engine. In some cases the V8 may do better because it will cruise at an speed that the 3.0l is pushing as hard as it can. Just remember no one ever says they wanted a small motor.

For size I think 19' or 20' might server you better. My 20' is rated for 12 but when we get more than 6 (some small kids) it will start to get crowded when moving people around.
 

Brian 26

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Aug 14, 2013
Messages
574
With 5 of you a 1750 or 1850 will be tight. Think coolers, bags, clothes, towels, innertubes, shoes etc laying all over the floor. My wife and I have a 4 year old and a 7 year old and we have a 235 that can get cluttered.
 

drrpm

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Oct 24, 2008
Messages
707
A 20 footer with a V8 like that 4Winns would serve your purposes well. The difference in maintenance and gas between the 4 cylinder and a V8 are negligible in terms of the overall cost of owning a boat. The difference in performance is significant especially if you start pulling multiple tubes or skiers.
 

roffey

Commander
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Nov 22, 2012
Messages
2,184
.... and to add, gas consumption did not even enter into my decision on boat. Boats just cost money and if you have to ask about fuel economy .... just my two pennies worth.
 

NYBo

Admiral
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Oct 23, 2008
Messages
7,107
Welcome to iboats!:welcome:

You've already gotten a lot of good advice. Which lake are you on? My wife and I are planning to be on Seneca when I retire but I'm interested hearing about the others.
 

smassey22180

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Apr 15, 2013
Messages
210
I own a Crownline 180 and it is a great 4 person boat. My kids are younger than yours but once they get older we will probably move up to a 21'. I had a 3.0 in my last boat and it was nice but the 4.3 is better and idles much smoother. Especially a MPI one which you should strongly consider. My current boat has a Volvo Penta outdrive. I find the exhaust to be louder than my last Mercruiser one. The 2007 and up VP SX A outdrive seems to have fixed this issue by having the exhaust goes out the rear rather than the sides.

Price wise the difference between 18-20 is not much on the used market. I think 18' boats are more in demand because they can be towed by normal things and fit in normal garages. Since you are keeping it at the dock, you are not limited by either of these factors.
 
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