60hp on Classic Whaler 13?

[Grew140ss]

I currently run a 1980 Grew 140 SS with a 1988 Johnson 60 on Lake Ontario. (http://forums.iboats.com/forum/boat...repair/8750214-gelcoat-damage-worth-repairing)

She was abused by the PO and I'm looking at a lot of bare glass on the bottom as well as likely a wet transom that I estimate will run about $2k all in to fix this spring.

Based on my affection for whalers (I drive a classic 11 and 15 for work) I decided to look around and see if I could find a 15 for a good price to put my power on. No luck, but I lucked out and found a good looking 1970 13 for less than the estimated repair cost.

Do you guys think putting my 60 on an old 13 is feasible/ not a horrible idea? Obviously I'm going to do a more thorough check for hull integrity this time around, and assuming the boat is sound? I am safety conscious but also young and love to go fast. This boat will be a runabout that gets me to work every day rather than a fishing platform. About half of my commute is in very sheltered water (Toronto's Inner Harbour) and the other half is in fairly sheltered water (Toronto's Outer Harbour). Regardless, I would prefer to have a reasonable degree of confidence in the boat in all weather- keep in mind, severe weather here is usually not more than a metre or 1.5 of chop.

Thanks in advance for the advice!

 

[funk6294]

I would say no. We have a 1972 13 at the family cottage that is rigged with a Yamaha 40 which is the max power for that boat. That boat already sits low with the weight of the 40, not sure it would support a 60.

 

[mr 88]

Since the hull is unsinkable I would not worry about it sitting low in the water. I would guess there isn't much weight difference between the 40 and 60 and if there is just put your battery and gas tanks up front while moored.Not sure how the transom will hold up but they are known to be overbuilt. I would still keep a eye out for any stress cracks.My boat was rated for 100 hp[,the largest they made at the time,] I now have a 150 hanging off it,no problems.BTW a meter of chop is a lot for that boat,your talking almost 3ft, that aint small for a 13' whaler.You will also have to re prop it as I am sure the 60 came off a bigger slower hull

 

[robert graham]

Too heavy and too much power, not to mention way out of specs by your coast guard plate on the transom....

 

[jbcurt00]

Since the hull is unsinkable I would not worry about it sitting low in the water. I would guess there isn't much weight difference between the 40 and 60 and if there is just put your battery and gas tanks up front while moored.Not sure how the transom will hold up but they are known to be overbuilt. I would still keep a eye out for any stress cracks.My boat was rated for 100 hp[,the largest they made at the time,] I now have a 150 hanging off it,no problems

Since it's a 1970 boat w/ a largely unknown history, I wouldn't count on it being unsinkable. Sure, when it was new you could cut it in half and motor around the marina, but 44yrs later, I wouldn't bet my (or anyone else aboard's) life on it.

I also definitely wouldn't suggest that just because I was lucky enough to pull off (for now) a 50% overpower on my boat, that overpowering a 13ft 1970 boat I've never even seen a picture of, let alone inspected, would be no problem. Or unsinkable..

Seems reckless to suggest either.

Fortunately, they aren't my boats, I won't be aboard them, or anywhere near them underway, so do as you see fit. But either way, IMO, reckless recommendations aren't wise.

Boat & boat rehab safely

 

[skibrain]

We had a '74 Whaler 13' with 40 hp Johnson (old-style twin. Not through-hub exhaust)
2-blade speed prop it would do 36 mph. I believe '74 was first year of tall transom. The '70 would be short transom for sure - which I like better on these. I see NO transom strength issue on a sound whaler. I see no weight issue with a 60 as I bet it is same displacent and weight as a 40 of the same year. (The hood of a 40 would likely fit. wink, wink). I believe the 13s corner a little flatter than the '15 which while no v-hull, has a slightly deeper center, which gives it a bit more speed potential. '15 was rated at 70 hp and those seem to go about 40-43 mph with max power and light load.

You could verify in a minute, but a repower w/4 stroke yam/suzuki/honda probably weighs more than that 2 stroke OMC 60.

You might check on the Whaler forum for '13 repower experience: The Continuos Wave.

Yes you are off the CC plate rating so boat at your own risk from insurance and liability standpoint. Normally I am pretty cautious on this stuff, but I think you'd be fine.

 

[JimS123]

That same question is asked here at least 4 times each month, albeit on different hulls and different horsepowers.

THIS question, though, gave me a chuckle because it is the dumbest and most irresponsible question ever!

 

[smassey22180]

I owned a 13' whaler for 30 years. I would not put a 60 on one just because of the speed you could carry. Over 35 mph and the boat would not be safe.

 

[jbcurt00]

BTW: a 1970s 40hp OB available when the boat was built was HP rated at the crank, and is likely a 2cyl, your 1988 60hp is a 3cyl rated at the prop so the actual HP difference at the prop, is more then the apparent 20hp spread.

I doubt a 70's 40hp hood would fit a late 80s 60hp easily, and concealing a 50% overpower under the wrong hood is NOT a 2 wrongs make it right situation.

Another reckless recommendation, IMO.

Did they make a short shaft 60hp in 1988? If the 13ft'r (as noted above) is a short shaft transom (as noted above), what are your plans to get the prop at the right height below the keel if your 60hp is a long shaft?

 

[ondarvr]

It's interesting people always talk about BW's being unsinkable, the Coast Guard requires all small boats to be unsinkable, BW just had a great marketing plan.

 

[Grew140ss]

A lot of very good points made here. Definitely the wrong match between boat and power. Safety must always come first. Thanks for all the advice guys!

 

[Grew140ss]

BTW: a 1970s 40hp OB available when the boat was built was HP rated at the crank, and is likely a 2cyl, your 1988 60hp is a 3cyl rated at the prop so the actual HP difference at the prop, is more then the apparent 20hp spread.

I doubt a 70's 40hp hood would fit a late 80s 60hp easily, and concealing a 50% overpower under the wrong hood is NOT a 2 wrongs make it right situation.

Another reckless recommendation, IMO.

Did they make a short shaft 60hp in 1988? If the 13ft'r (as noted above) is a short shaft transom (as noted above), what are your plans to get the prop at the right height below the keel if your 60hp is a long shaft?

It's definitely a long shaft and beyond my growing concern over safety I'm not willing to shell out for a jack plate (the only viable solution I can think of). Even if I were, a little bit of research has revealed that the old 13s hate running much faster than mid 30s because of the hook and get very hairy any faster than that (as smassey also pointed out). In all, massive overpower and the wrong boat to do it to.

My search for a classic 15 continues!

 

[jbcurt00]

Be patient, not sure about where you are in Ontario, but used boat prices are falling now that theres snow flying in the northern US. Keep looking, esp as the holidays get.closer, prices typically go lower when people start shopping for xmas or start having to pay the bills in Jan.

 

[Grew140ss]

I'm in Toronto, but I'd travel for the right boat at the right price. I definitely will! I've heard wahoo 16.2s are pretty comparable to the venerable 15 also, so that broadens my search a bit

 

[mr 88]

It's interesting people always talk about BW's being unsinkable, the Coast Guard requires all small boats to be unsinkable, BW just had a great marketing plan.

The difference is the Whalers hull has all the positive flotation in it.It does not have foam sprayed into it below the gunnels and under the deck.So when your sitting there with a full hull of water it doesnt want to roll over like the average boat would. I have had the drain plug out untill it filled up and the gas tank was floating.. I then give it a shot of gas so the water spills over the transom,do that a few times and then pull the plug untill it all drains out. You are not going to do that with your average boat.Marketing yes, and if I was ever in a boat that took on massive amounts of water I hope its a Whaler. I hope that doesnt sound too reckless for some people.

 

[jbcurt00]

Search the iboats resto forum, there are quite a few water logged whalers documented there. As a 44yr old boat, it is more likely then not wet foam and THATS the problem, not a dry foam boat that performs as you describe.

Everytime i'm near a beach i see whaler and whaler knock offs w waterlines @the inside of the hull from standing water and thats not good, no matter the brand.

 

[ondarvr]

The difference is the Whalers hull has all the positive flotation in it.It does not have foam sprayed into it below the gunnels and under the deck.So when your sitting there with a full hull of water it doesnt want to roll over like the average boat would. I have had the drain plug out untill it filled up and the gas tank was floating.. I then give it a shot of gas so the water spills over the transom,do that a few times and then pull the plug untill it all drains out. You are not going to do that with your average boat.Marketing yes, and if I was ever in a boat that took on massive amounts of water I hope its a Whaler. I hope that doesnt sound too reckless for some people.

I've been there and watched them being made, they are foam filled, also repaired them. All small boats are required to float upright. I have a 19' CC (Blue Wave) that that you can leave the plug out of and it floats like normal, in fact one day I left the plug out the entire trip and didn't know it, it floats the same with no water coming over the floor. It would also float when cut in half, so would most any small boat.