Comments about boat manufacturers in the 60-70-80 time frame

[Texasmark]

The following is the way I see it.

I was on this earth before Pearl Harbor. Boating has been part of my entire life.

Looking back at the fiberglass industry in particular, I have a few comments concerning the newly born industry of the time.

None of the super tech gyzmos of today were available then. That is a huge negative in the onset; not being able to "predict the future".

When a resin/catalyst and a glass mat or little strips of glass fibers (chopped glass) came into being it was a new science. Nobody had been there before.

I was there. I participated in the procurement of such for years. I too knew no better.

Wood for stringers was a mechanical marvel of such as it absorbed impact, like you would have hitting a wave at some elevated speed. It was light for it's strength. It was easily incorporated into a manufactured product. It was cheap for what it offered. Plywood for decks (floors) was the perfect answer, whether the mfgr. encased it or not. REMEMBER, REGARDLESS OF WHAT YOU ARE BUILDING, IF YOU CAN'T MEET THE MARKET PRICE THE PROSPECTIVE BUYER CAN AFFORD, YOU HAVE NO SALES.....AKA NO MARKET. Oh, in addition, you are in the business, investing your time and financial resources to make a profit so that you can pay your bills for your investment, house, food, transportation, utilities, maybe a little extra for luxuries...bla bla and the same for your employees. I never worked for free; why should they?

Some boats had no flotation material. I had one I bought in 1960, a 13' Taylor Craft runabout that had an air chamber under the deck....aka floor. Idea was great but after years of pounding, the seals at the interface of the hull to the deck failed and the air chamber filled with water and was a definite problem.

So to keep this short and to the point, don't throw rocks at the manufacturer's of the day. They provided the boating public with what they wanted......boats. Today we are smarter and more cautious. Trying to get into a boat you can afford buying into yesteryear is your gamble. Sorry but that's the way it is.

Mark

 

[tpenfield]

:noidea:

 

[nwcove]

im confused......are old boats better because ? or are new boats better because? or is it....whatever floats yer boat ?

 

[JimS123]

What an awesome post. I share your views. Never heard anybody put it on paper before. Obviously, some first posters don't get it, but I sure do......LOL.

(I've been around a long time, though not as long as you).

Any boat, whether it be new or old, lasts only as long as the amount of upkeep it has. When I was a kid Dad wanted a boat so bad he could taste it, but he chose not to get one because he didn't have a garage to put it in. His cars never sat outside either. I share those views and that's why my garage space is bigger than my house!

The "vintage" fiberglass boats were not built poorly. Wood stringers, yeah! They still use them today, so it wasn't substandard back then. I probably see more old FG boats still in use than wooden boats of the same vintage.

 

[Texasmark]

:noidea:

 

[bonz_d]

Mark, I think I get your point, which kinda relates to my view of "building monuments" in the repair section of this site.

Some here seem to believe there is only one way to do things (decks and transoms) right. I don't believe that. There is no right way or wrong way only better ways. Many tiimes I see folks start projects on hulls that many others would cut up as scrap or on hulls that are not worth sinking thousands of dallors into. I know it's very easy for us to sit back behind our computers and spend other peoples money. Then berate them when "we" feel they are not doing it the "correct" way. Or "building monuments" as I've come to refer to them.

Over the years I have seen some very beautiful work come thru this forum were people have put a lot of hard work, money and thought into those projects. I have been amazed. While others only did what was necessary to make them functional and safe. Neither way is the only correct way or right way and I'm sure the owners enjoy them either way.

 

[Texasmark]

Mark, I think I get your point, which kinda relates to my view of "building monuments" in the repair section of this site.

Some here seem to believe there is only one way to do things (decks and transoms) right. I don't believe that. There is no right way or wrong way only better ways. Many tiimes I see folks start projects on hulls that many others would cut up as scrap or on hulls that are not worth sinking thousands of dallors into. I know it's very easy for us to sit back behind our computers and spend other peoples money. Then berate them when "we" feel they are not doing it the "correct" way. Or "building monuments" as I've come to refer to them.

Over the years I have seen some very beautiful work come thru this forum were people have put a lot of hard work, money and thought into those projects. I have been amazed. While others only did what was necessary to make them functional and safe. Neither way is the only correct way or right way and I'm sure the owners enjoy them either way.

Right on. We are all individuals and as such are individual. What works for me may not for you and vice versa. I made these comments because in all due respect to the folks making or attempting to make a living in the boating industry mistakes were made, just like in other industries...aka autos. Problem is some of these mistakes are still with us and are what the budding boating public can afford in a lot of cases. Just wanted to give them some idea that what they may brand as junk didn't start out that way. They just need to be careful and like a lot of them, get on here and ask questions, before the sale, not gee whiz look what I brought home......how'd I do?

Mark Reply

 

[pckeen]

Love the post and the idea. It's easy to criticise something someone else has built....much harder to design and post something from scratch.

 

[bonz_d]

The following is the way I see it.

So to keep this short and to the point, don't throw rocks at the manufacturer's of the day. They provided the boating public with what they wanted......boats. Today we are smarter and more cautious. Trying to get into a boat you can afford buying into yesteryear is your gamble. Sorry but that's the way it is.

Mark

I can recall back to when I was much younger and the 1st of the Chevy Corvairs came out. Wow it was cool, a 6 cylinder Bug. They are long since gone. Also the "Big Boat" builders were building plywood day cruisers,24', 28', 30'. Thy were cool too and all up and down the Fox River Chain were I grew up. They are all but gone also. Glass was so much easier to maintain! Then everyone started building boats. By the time we get to the mid to late 70's if you'd seen one trihull you'd seen them all.

I see nothing wrong with buying an old glass boat as long as one understands the inherent problems that most likely will come with it. Some will be worse off than others due to many different reasons. Some from design but most from neglect, barely any just because of age.

I shy away from glass boats because I do understand the risks and the expense to rebuild them. Though I'll add IF I could find a Glasspar Sea Fairer in reasonable shape I could see myself building one of those "monuments". In the mean time I'll stick to old tin fishing boats.

 

[Texasmark]

I can recall back to when I was much younger and the 1st of the Chevy Corvairs came out. Wow it was cool, a 6 cylinder Bug. They are long since gone. Also the "Big Boat" builders were building plywood day cruisers,24', 28', 30'. Thy were cool too and all up and down the Fox River Chain were I grew up. They are all but gone also. Glass was so much easier to maintain! Then everyone started building boats. By the time we get to the mid to late 70's if you'd seen one trihull you'd seen them all.

I see nothing wrong with buying an old glass boat as long as one understands the inherent problems that most likely will come with it. Some will be worse off than others due to many different reasons. Some from design but most from neglect, barely any just because of age.

I shy away from glass boats because I do understand the risks and the expense to rebuild them. Though I'll add IF I could find a Glasspar Sea Fairer in reasonable shape I could see myself building one of those "monuments". In the mean time I'll stick to old tin fishing boats.

This is where I was with the Starcraft. I wanted an I/O and this one came up for sale. Big mistake as I didn't know what I was getting into, but stayed the course and it worked out.

I got into farming for about 10 years and after 40+ years of boating quit. Later on I wanted a boat again. What did I look for? An aluminum for the reasons mentioned. Was not sorry even though I had to use in on suitable water but that wasn't all that bad. The only lake around here that had reasonable water levels for launching and all just happened to be a 1000 acre city lake and "suitable water".

Enjoyed the chat.

Oh and on the Corvair. Was doing my duty to my country and one of my comrades had a 4 door. One Sunday he and his wife, sitting up front, took my wife and I out for an outing. After about 30 minutes of bouncing around in that back seat with all that engine weight and all we asked to go home. Which we did in our 1964 Rambler American 4 door.

Mark

 

[saumon]

What's a wood stringer?

Seriously, that's why BW boats were so ahead of their time. Still a lot of 16' hulls from the '60's floating around...

 

[Texasmark]

What's a wood stringer? 😊

Seriously, that's why BW boats were so ahead of their time. Still a lot of 16' hulls from the '60's floating around...

I think I get the gist of your question about stringers, looking at your plastic boat (not knocking the proven Whaler) which may not have any.

Never know the history of an old boat. If it never saw water inside and sat in a garage, you bet.

But taking for example the Starcraft I/O I bought just because I had this itch for an I/O and I thought I could handle this (which I did), it was sitting in a marina in Lake Dallas, TX. with the stern area semi submerged from rain water. No telling how long it had been like that. The little 110 hp Mercruiser engine is where I learned what it means when the engine oil is yellow. When I got into the outdrive I learned about aluminum and corrosion. I also learned (later) that you can't rebuild an outdrive CV joint using parts from the auto parts store and expect the drive line to behave in turns. Really the only down side is I paid $1600 back in about 1985 and the guy should have given it to me to take it off his hands. I enjoyed the challenge of the restoration. Only wood was in the transom and plywood decking and was rotten.

Take a FG boat of the era sitting out in the backyard covered, probably not as the cover rotted off, maybe the tongue of the trailer was on the ground so the bow area filled with water and sat that way for who knows how long and on and on, you could get anything.

Mark

 

[JimS123]

The absolute best quality 10 year old FG boat that was stored outdoors uncovered and allowed to stay full of water, today is a piece-o-crap compared to the worst quality 60 year old FG boat that was garage kept and covered dry.

In my opinion, manufacturing quality / design / innovation is 30% of the equation, while care and upkeep is 70%. I truly believe that ANY boat (hull) will last a lifetime if it is kept dry and out of the elements.

 

[kjedwards]

I have started a restoration of a 1973 Sea Camper that I was production manager of in 1977&78 at the barge port in Palatka Fl. it has wood stringers, transom and balk head, the boat floor was plywood, we covered every thing with fiberglass and filled the space beneath floor and stringers with foam I cut a hole in floor to check
for wet or rot, everything was dry and solid as day built, water had got inside cabin and delaminated paneling but no water could get to bilge because floor and hull was a sealed unit this boat is 41 year old and as solid as day built. anyone needing information on this boat email request

 

[bonz_d]

The absolute best quality 10 year old FG boat that was stored outdoors uncovered and allowed to stay full of water, today is a piece-o-crap compared to the worst quality 60 year old FG boat that was garage kept and covered dry.

In my opinion, manufacturing quality / design / innovation is 30% of the equation, while care and upkeep is 70%. I truly believe that ANY boat (hull) will last a lifetime if it is kept dry and out of the elements.

I am finding this conversation most interesting. And I mean that seriously.

JimS would you please elaborate on your statement of "kept dry"? Just so no one gets the wrong idea.

My idea of kept dry would basically mean not left to sit full of water/moisture. As most boats will pick up some amount of water during an outing. Though I don't swim or do other water sports in my boat I still pick up water at times. Like long trips heading into the wind and taking heavy spray over the bow at times. Or out on a great fishing trip and that storm I've been watching changes course or catches up, or the fish were biting so well that we just refused to go in!

Yes it does get wet, sometimes a couple inches of water in the bottom. But it doesn't stay there and soon everything drys out. To me that would still fall under the catagory of being kept dry.

 

[Texasmark]

I am finding this conversation most interesting. And I mean that seriously.

JimS would you please elaborate on your statement of "kept dry"? Just so no one gets the wrong idea.

My idea of kept dry would basically mean not left to sit full of water/moisture. As most boats will pick up some amount of water during an outing. Though I don't swim or do other water sports in my boat I still pick up water at times. Like long trips heading into the wind and taking heavy spray over the bow at times. Or out on a great fishing trip and that storm I've been watching changes course or catches up, or the fish were biting so well that we just refused to go in!

Yes it does get wet, sometimes a couple inches of water in the bottom. But it doesn't stay there and soon everything drys out. To me that would still fall under the catagory of being kept dry.

Butting in since this isn't addressed to me. Problem is long term storage, not what you are talking about.

Mark

 

[dingbat]

As a Design Engineer, you're in trouble when the prime criteria of a design is to met a "price point". At that point, "quality" design goes out the window. Everything is a compromise.

Funny how soft decks and rotten strings are common in some boats, unheard of in others? Water doesn't kill boats....shotty design and inferior materials do.

 

[Texasmark]

As a Design Engineer, you're in trouble when the prime criteria of a design is to met a "price point". At that point, "quality" design goes out the window. Everything is a compromise.

Funny how soft decks and rotten strings are common in some boats, unheard of in others? Water doesn't kill boats....shotty design and inferior materials do.

As I said earlier, it's called "design to cost". You have to design a product to meet the cost structure required to make the required profit margins to meet your proposed market otherwise you can't sell it and get paid. Business goes belly up. Move up in the market and so you supply more, charge more, and work that customer base. Problem is, as you move up, your customer base shrinks so you have to factor that into the design to cost criteria.

Lots of small companies, and it's obvious by the turnover at the low end, can't move up so they do the other. Course Forrest Wood had a dream with Ranger Boats and due to his dedicated efforts he took his infantile company from where it was back in the early '70's to where it is today. I had one and they didn't skimp. He built his following "One Boat at a Time" (his trademark) and served it faithfully.

Mark

 

[garbageguy]

As a Design Engineer, you're in trouble when the prime criteria of a design is to met a "price point". At that point, "quality" design goes out the window. Everything is a compromise.

Funny how soft decks and rotten strings are common in some boats, unheard of in others? Water doesn't kill boats....shotty design and inferior materials do.

op2:

 

[JimS123]

I am finding this conversation most interesting. And I mean that seriously.

JimS would you please elaborate on your statement of "kept dry"? Just so no one gets the wrong idea.

My idea of kept dry would basically mean not left to sit full of water/moisture. As most boats will pick up some amount of water during an outing. Though I don't swim or do other water sports in my boat I still pick up water at times. Like long trips heading into the wind and taking heavy spray over the bow at times. Or out on a great fishing trip and that storm I've been watching changes course or catches up, or the fish were biting so well that we just refused to go in!

Yes it does get wet, sometimes a couple inches of water in the bottom. But it doesn't stay there and soon everything drys out. To me that would still fall under the catagory of being kept dry.

"Kept dry" means don't ever put it in the water so it never gets wet......LOL.

Not, just kidding. I think your analysis is spot on. Dry out the bilge at the end of the day. And most of all, don't let it sit with water in the bilge all Winter long.