is marine oil good enough for other 2- cycle use?

[guy48065]

While fiddling around with a garage-sale chainsaw I downloaded and read the old manual. In it I was surprised to read the caution NOT to use BIA marine oil/gas mix in the saw because it doesn't have the necessary additives for an air-cooled engine. I've never seen a warning like this and have been running my chainsaws, trimmers and outboards off the same 40:1 mix of synthetic marine oil/gas for years. Can this cause damage. .. or is this an obsolete warning that's not true for modern marine oils? How about you -- do you have different jugs for different motors?

 

[GA_Boater]

TCW3 is formulated for cooler running engines. Will it hurt to run it in air-cooled motors - I have no idea. I do have two different jugs myself.

 

[NYBo]

It will supposedly coke up in air cooled motors due to the higher temps. I have no personal experience one way or the other; I've always used the oil recommended for air cooled motors in my chain saw and string trimmers. Synthetic TCW oil may stand up to the higher temps.

 

[metriccrescentwrench]

Yep, there are oil specifications for water cooled engines and different oil specs for air cooled engines because of the differences in operating temperature. With that being said I have on occasion run my chain saw with boat gas because I didn't have anything else available and it's still going strong years later. I've also read (but don't have any information handy) that some oils are listed for meeting both sets of specs.

 

[guy48065]

Gas shelf life is supposedly short --i was hoping to stick with one mix in order for it to always be fresh.

 

[guy48065]

Wait a minute... one of my outboards is an old Sears that's AIR COOLED! Oh my head. ..

 

[JoLin]

When in doubt adhere to the manufacturer's oil spec. If it says not to use the same oil as your 2-stroke outboard, don't unless you're prepared for problems. My air-cooled Toro snowblower can use TCW3. Could be because it's used in cold temps, but that's just a guess.

 

[Texasmark]

Gas shelf life is supposedly short --i was hoping to stick with one mix in order for it to always be fresh.

If you will read the fine print on a lot of air cooled oils they specify the addition of a conditioning agent like Stabil to increase shelf life of your mix. You can get these oils in Syn or Syn blend for added protection. I know Stihl in the silver container is Syn while in the orange it is blend or just dino but still has the conditioner.

I have a 1 gallon container which I mix for the year using it for the saw in winter and weed whacking in the summer. No problems.

I too have read about the formulations being different for temp reasons. OB engines have a 140Fish thermostat or pressure pop off bypassing the stat for higher rpms running ambient water whatever temp that is. My BS V twin on the lawn mower was working the other day and when finished I Infrared temp shot the crankcase and it was 178, much cooler than I had expected so it seems the fan on the flywheel is doing the job. However your saw and whacker don't have that fan. I haven't shot one lately so I don't know where they run.

That's what I know about it.
Mark

 

[steelespike]

I have a 10 year old bottle of CITGO "extra range"2 cycle outboard engine oil".Recommended for about every 2 stroke engine you could imagine.
I have used what ever 2 stroke oil was within reach in all my 2 strokers 65 Merc 500,88 Evinrude 50,Paulin chainsaw,now 18 years old,weed whacker
about the same age, and my tiny Mantis very effective rototiller. slightly younger.
These do suffer a little from my complete lack of attention though a I do occasionally clean a air filter and I start with fresh gas every spring.
Any fuel left over goes in the lawn tractor.

 

[H20Rat]

It isn't just air/water cooled... Seadoo 2 stroke PWC's recommend NOT running TCW3 oil either. Something about not being able to handle the high RPM's that a small rotax will generate (9000+)

 

[slag]

It isn't just air/water cooled... Seadoo 2 stroke PWC's recommend NOT running TCW3 oil either. Something about not being able to handle the high RPM's that a small rotax will generate (9000+)

I don't think it has to do with the rpms as a rotax engine has pistons just like every other engine. It has to do with the ash content of the oil and what is needed to lubricate the rotary valve.

 

[bonz_d]

Used to use up the OB fuel every winter in my Toro blower also until I killed it trying to blow snow that was a bit too deep. Also back in the day, long ago we used to burn nothing but Klotz in our MX bikes.The old Husky loved the stuff.

 

[H20Rat]

I don't think it has to do with the rpms as a rotax engine has pistons just like every other engine. It has to do with the ash content of the oil and what is needed to lubricate the rotary valve.

Very likely, years ago I saw some official material from Seadoo that claimed because of the severe conditions compared to an outboard, but that was mostly marketing speak anyway. Although different oils ARE designed for different RPM ranges, what works well in an outboard at 5000-6000 might not be a good choice in an engine that spins 9000 or higher.

 

[slag]

The average stock XP 787 will run high 56's to low 57's (mph) @ 6680 - 6750 rpm. Rotax seadoo pwc engines don't get anywhere near 9k rpms. 580 and 650 cc rotax engines are in the 6-7k rpm range as well.

 

[HT32BSX115]

Howdy,


There's essentially 2 specifications for 2-Stroke oils. API-TC and NMMA TC-W3


if you want to read about the Marine specs Go to https://www.nmma.org/certification/certification/oil/tc-w3.aspx

I found that it's a little harder find a lot of info on the API-TC spec other than to say that you probably shouldn't use TC-W3 (only) oil in an aircooled 2-stroke high power engine. (is a chain-saw high power? NO IMHO)

Also, you might notice that manyTC-W3 oils today actually MEET both standards.

So if it bothers you, select an oil that meets both standards.


Cheers,


Rick

 

[Texasmark]

I have a 10 year old bottle of CITGO "extra range"2 cycle outboard engine oil".Recommended for about every 2 stroke engine you could imagine.
I have used what ever 2 stroke oil was within reach in all my 2 strokers 65 Merc 500,88 Evinrude 50,Paulin chainsaw,now 18 years old,weed whacker
about the same age, and my tiny Mantis very effective rototiller. slightly younger.
These do suffer a little from my complete lack of attention though a I do occasionally clean a air filter and I start with fresh gas every spring.
Any fuel left over goes in the lawn tractor.

Funny my somewhat aged Mantis and Weed Eater brand string trimmer (long ago set aside) are the two engines that I restored using Sea Foam just to see if it would, and it did without having to dismantle everything. I wasn't all that sold on it prior to the ressurection. These two engines suffered from "do suffer a little from my complete lack of attention" also. Ha!

Mark

 

[guy48065]

I didn't know some 2C oils meet both classifications -- I'll look for it. Up at my cottage I might not touch the trimmer or chainsaw all year so it's handy to be able to use the boat fuel when needed.

 

[GearToGo]

What about the other way around, trimmer/weedeater 2 cycle oil in an outboard?

 

[guy48065]

LOT more $$ at stake. ..

 

[guy48065]

Ok so I went to the NMMA.org website and found a list of oils certified as meeting the TC-W3 spec. Then I wrote down every brand that did NOT have "marine" or other words in the name that would suggest it was specific for outboards. THEN I searched that short list and eliminated all that were described by the manufacturer or distributor as an outboard oil. What I'm left with is (and I'm sure it's not a complete list--but simply a place to start):
Peak 2-cycle Engine Oil
Lucas Land and Sea
76 Unimix
Pennzoil Outdoor Premium Outboard and Multi-Purpose
Valvoline Multi-Purpose 2-cycle Engine Oil
Havoline 2-cycle Engine Oil TC-W3

All these are TC-W3 certified and also state they are for 2-stroke air-cooled engine use as well.

Now on to see if anyone carries any of them locally, and compare prices.
I didn't include Klotz because I ain't paying that much. Same for Amsoil--I'm sure they have a multi-purpose but I'm not drinking that kool-aid.


Discussion appreciated...