Advice Needed on buying a Sunbird Corsair

[lakenormangal]

I have the opportunity to buy a 1990 Sunbird Corsair 18 ft with a V6. A good friend of mine bought it earlier this year for $1900. It had a cracked block and cracked manifolds. He picked up another motor, and rebuilt it, stroking it out. The rebuilt motor runs like a top and fires up with the first turn of the key. He also replaced the outdrive with a good used one. The interior is in pretty nice shape, he had my boyfriend rebuild the supports for the back seat area and the carpeted panels around the motor area, the old wood was pretty rotted and he used all pressure treated wood. The rest of the interior is pretty mint for a boat this old. The only extras on the boat are fishfinder/depth finder and a cd player. The lights all work great.
The boat does have the trailer that is came with, and he replaced the bearings and tires on it. He also installed Bearing Buddies.

I've been out on the boat a few times and it runs and rides pretty nice.
There are a few very very shallow hairline stress cracks around the top surface near the back end of the boat, but the transom look great, no cracks on the transom at all, very clean around the outdrive.
New batteries. New bilge pump. He did more work to it but I can't think of all the small things he did.
The boat does have a cover but not a bimini top.
The exterior of the boat is very clean, no scrapes or big scratches.
He planned on keeping this boat for a few years, but then he went up to Lake Norman and saw all the incredible powerboats there and was struck with the fever to get a bigger, faster boat.
Now I do have a place on the lake so I would most likely want to keep the boat docked during the summer, so I would not have to drag it in and out of the water each weekend.
He has only had the boat out 6 times since he rebuilt the motor. It gets pretty good mileage.

About 30 years ago I had a 19 ft Sidewinder and I loved it. Sold it when my fiance blew the motor. But I have always wanted another boat. I just want something to cruise around the lake with. My BF has a bass boat but that gets pretty tossed around on the main channel of the lake on the weekends. Lake Norman can get pretty choppy. I don't need a boat that can do 50 mph. I just want to cruise around, have fun, explore. I'm 54 yrs old and want a boat that I can use for the 15 years. I won't be beating the crap out of this boat and will store it in under a carport in the winter.

He wants $3000 for it.
What do you think? Is this a good buy for me? Any Sunbird owners, what issues should I be looking for? Thanks for any help.

 

[jigngrub]

If your boyfriend dug rotten wood out of the boat, there more rotten wood in there.

At 24 yrs. old that boat is a prime candidate for a structural restoration, transom and stringers below deck. You won't get many more years out of it (maybe 1 or 2) before soft spots start showing up on the deck, especially if you're going to keep it docked on the water. Boats that're left on the water during boating season age much quicker than trailered and covered boats.

Since the motor's been rebuilt and the drive train is in good shape you may want to buy it and use it until the structure shows visible signs of needing to be replaced (soft spots in deck) and then restore it and get another 10 or 15 yrs. out of it.

The above scenario will be typical with just about any fiberglass boat in that age and price range.

 

[lakenormangal]

Thanks jigngrub, What concerns me most is the transom. Replacing the wood of the transom sounds like a brutal hard job. Does the motor and outdrive have be removed from the boat in order to replace the wood there?
This many sound like a stupid question, but if I remove the carpeted panels at the rear of the engine compartment, will I be able to see the front face of the transom and be able to check the wood there?
For checking the stringers, if I left up the access panel in the deck of the boat, does that give me a good view of the stringers?

 

[jigngrub]

You should be able to gain at least a little access to the transom around the motor and by removing the panels. Drilling holes in the transom wood from the inside is a good way to check for rot. Use a 1/4"-3/8" dia. drill bit drilling about 1 inch deep and examine the shavings that come out. Moist, or dark and moist shavings indicate rot. Light colored dry shavings are good wood. The areas to check are down low on the transom near the bottom, around the "keyhole" where the outdrive goes through the transom and the top corners of the transom.

If there are openings in the floor (deck) like a ski locker or access hatches for mechanical you may be able to check the stringers there. Drill them the same way you drill the transom.

The problem with checking for rot by drilling (the surest way but still not 100%) is a seller probably isn't going to let you drill a
on a boat they're trying to sell and you won't be able to check it until after you buy it.

Another thing to look for is to look at the decking, it's a common practice for people to lay new decking on top of old rotten decking to try to get a few more years out of the boat. Look at the decking through any openings to see if there's 2 layers of plywood down, one on top of the other. Look at the deck and see if any part of the decking has a little step up on it 1/2"-1". This means plywood has been laid over the raised up area to cover soft spots.

Any soft spots in the deck are a huge red flag, they indicate water intrusion problems and fiberglass boats rot from the inside out and the bottom up which means that by the time the decking starts getting rotten the below deck structure is much more rotten than the decking.

Replacing the transom on an I/O is a bugger, the engine and outdrive have to be removed to do the job properly. Replacing the stringers will require removing all of the decking and anything that's sitting on top of it (seats and whatever).

On an encouraging note:
Restoring any kind of boat is completely covered in the restoration forum of this site:
http://forums.iboats.com/forum/boat-repair-and-restoration/boat-restoration-building-and-hull-repair
Lots of threads, pics, and videos of people working on their boats... and we have women and teenagers restoring boats in that forum, so anyone that has a mind to can restore their own boat.

I hope this helps and I'm in no way trying to discourage you from buying a boat, I just think people ought to know what they're getting into when they buy an older used boat. We see a lot of first time boat buyers in this forum get taken completely by surprise when they find out that their "new to them" 30 yr. old boat they bought for $2500 is completely rotten and needs much work and money put into it to make it safe and seaworthy.

 

[jigngrub]

I'd just like to add that this boat is probably one of your best deals in your area for you, because you know the seller and you know the condition of the drivetrain (a BIG plus).

If you decide to buy this boat, this forum will be at your disposal for any questions/technical advice, problems, or help you need. The people on this forum love boats and boating and we strive to help other with the same likes.

 

[SpitAndDirt]

Thanks jigngrub, What concerns me most is the transom. Replacing the wood of the transom sounds like a brutal hard job. Does the motor and outdrive have be removed from the boat in order to replace the wood there?
This many sound like a stupid question, but if I remove the carpeted panels at the rear of the engine compartment, will I be able to see the front face of the transom and be able to check the wood there?
For checking the stringers, if I left up the access panel in the deck of the boat, does that give me a good view of the stringers?

Sir, you can click on the link in my signature for my restoration project well underway.

I haven't posted in over a year because I have been deployed to Afghanistan (I'm here as I write this :usa2, so the project obviously took a back seat.

I can tell you that my 1992 Sunbird Corsair wasn't a horribly constructed boat, but like others have said, they rot from the bottom up. I picked mine up for next to nothing because it had been left outside for a decade and forgotten. Sunbird did not glass the underside of the deck. If you really take a hard look in the ski locker with a large mirror and good light, it should give you a pretty good indicator of how rotten the deck is. I can also tell you that the speedometer pitot tube that hangs down off the back may have not been screwed in using any kind of caulk to keep water from seeping past the screw threads and into the transom. In my experience, the boat was still pretty solid even with a partially rotten transom. When I took my outdrive off, there wasn't any caulk either to keep water from entering in through the bolts that sandwich the transom plate.

I can tell you that upon de-construction I discovered that the stringers weren't completely covered in fiberglass leaving plenty of spots for water/moisture/humidity ingress. The same goes for the very top of the transom: the wood sandwich of the transom wasn't completely glassed either. I will say one thing for Sunbird though, they did install plenty of foam under the decks.

So take this as a forewarning: Your Corsair is no better OR worse from any boats built around that time period. It seems as though most boat builders around that time we're scrambling to get boats to market as fast as possible to satisfy demand or just to increase their bottom line by skimping on materials.

I can't tell you one way or another if you should buy it. I would say that if you do, and it's in as good of shape as you say, I would also seriously consider the extra investment to install a boat lift if you won't be taking it out when you aren't there. To let it sit in water for long, unattended periods of time is inviting the possibility of more water ingress through the areas I mentioned above.

If you have any questions about my restoration or need any other pictures for proof, just ask.

 

[lakenormangal]

Sir, you can click on the link in my signature for my restoration project well underway.

I haven't posted in over a year because I have been deployed to Afghanistan (I'm here as I write this :usa2, so the project obviously took a back seat.

I can tell you that my 1992 Sunbird Corsair wasn't a horribly constructed boat, but like others have said, they rot from the bottom up. I picked mine up for next to nothing because it had been left outside for a decade and forgotten. Sunbird did not glass the underside of the deck. If you really take a hard look in the ski locker with a large mirror and good light, it should give you a pretty good indicator of how rotten the deck is. I can also tell you that the speedometer pitot tube that hangs down off the back may have not been screwed in using any kind of caulk to keep water from seeping past the screw threads and into the transom. In my experience, the boat was still pretty solid even with a partially rotten transom. When I took my outdrive off, there wasn't any caulk either to keep water from entering in through the bolts that sandwich the transom plate.

I can tell you that upon de-construction I discovered that the stringers weren't completely covered in fiberglass leaving plenty of spots for water/moisture/humidity ingress. The same goes for the very top of the transom: the wood sandwich of the transom wasn't completely glassed either. I will say one thing for Sunbird though, they did install plenty of foam under the decks.

So take this as a forewarning: Your Corsair is no better OR worse from any boats built around that time period. It seems as though most boat builders around that time we're scrambling to get boats to market as fast as possible to satisfy demand or just to increase their bottom line by skimping on materials.

I can't tell you one way or another if you should buy it. I would say that if you do, and it's in as good of shape as you say, I would also seriously consider the extra investment to install a boat lift if you won't be taking it out when you aren't there. To let it sit in water for long, unattended periods of time is inviting the possibility of more water ingress through the areas I mentioned above.

If you have any questions about my restoration or need any other pictures for proof, just ask.

Thanks so much for responding to my post! Your photos are a big help, I can see that the transom is glassed in and its gona be a bear to replace the wood. But the fact that so many people seem to take the time to restore these boats must mean something, they must be pretty worthwhile boat, to deserve such time put into them. I'm gonna go take a good look at the boat this week. The time I have spent on it, I was too busy enjoying myself driving it, diving off it, ect. I'm going to check for soft spots in the floor and using a flashlight, take a real close look at the transom.

 

[lakenormangal]

I'd just like to add that this boat is probably one of your best deals in your area for you, because you know the seller and you know the condition of the drivetrain (a BIG plus).

If you decide to buy this boat, this forum will be at your disposal for any questions/technical advice, problems, or help you need. The people on this forum love boats and boating and we strive to help other with the same likes.

Thanks man! I'm already getting some great advice! I have been away from boats for a long time over 20 years. Been mostly into kayaking and rowing, but I miss powerboating and it has always been one of my passions that I did not really indulge. I am gonna think of this as my 55th birthday present to myself! ( and Christmas present 2014 and 2015!)

 

[bobdec]

Since you know the history and seller, for only 3K it's worth the gamble. Comparable boats are going for 4-5K . Just a note, in post #7 you said "since many are restoring them they must be a worthwhile boat" Not IMO, but everyone has their own loves and hobbies.. Sunbird was a low end entry boat and the OMC outdrive they used was not exactly the best choice for reliability and parts availability. On the good side You said 6 cly was rebuilt so it sounds like you have a 4.3 L rebuilt to a stroker, depending on what was done and what parts were used for the rebuild that could go either way. The 4.3 150 HP stock is a better power choice than the 135 HP 4 cyl 3.0 L they also offer back then.

 

[jigngrub]

I forgot to mention, another good "rot detection" tool is a digital camera. If you don't have enough room to get your head in there for a look but you can get your hand and a camera in there take some pics.

If you decide to buy this boat and keep it on the water I strongly suggest having a snap on mooring cover made for it to keep the rain out and the sun off of the interior. Cover your boat after each use and keep it covered when not in use and it'll last a lot longer.

 

[lakenormangal]

Found some more information about the boat. My friend bought it from the second owner of the boat who bought it from the original owner. All of the maintainence records of the boat came with the boat, and they show that at was serviced at a marina regularly, all oil changes, everything that was ever done to it. Now the second owner did redo the decking by laying a new layer of marine grade plywood down. And my friend took a good look at the transom when he replaced the motor, and says that the transom looks very good. He also has all the original manuals that came with the boat. This sounds like the boat was well taken care of. And the boat has a cover that covers the whole top of the boat, bow section included.

 

[Bondo]

Found some more information about the boat. My friend bought it from the second owner of the boat who bought it from the original owner. All of the maintainence records of the boat came with the boat, and they show that at was serviced at a marina regularly, all oil changes, everything that was ever done to it. Now the second owner did redo the decking by laying a new layer of marine grade plywood down. And my friend took a good look at the transom when he replaced the motor, and says that the transom looks very good. He also has all the original manuals that came with the boat. This sounds like the boat was well taken care of. And the boat has a cover that covers the whole top of the boat, bow section included.

Ayuh,.... Boats Rot, from the bottom up,....

If the deck was Rotten, 'n more plywood was put on top of the old deck, now the hull is Waayyy Heavy, 'n still Rotten under the false floor,....

And,..... The Sunbirds are entry level boats,.....
Entry level hulls aren't known for their longevity,....

Think Bayliner,....

 

[jigngrub]

Ayuh,.... Boats Rot, from the bottom up,....

If the deck was Rotten, 'n more plywood was put on top of the old deck, now the hull is Waayyy Heavy, 'n still Rotten under the false floor,....

.

Yep, and the rot continues to spread.

Double decking doesn't fix the problem, it just covers it up for another couple of years.The moisture and rot from the old deck will penetrate the new decking and rot it quicker than the original deck rotted and the original deck and stringers just keep rotting getting mushier and mushier under all of that other wood and carpet.

Here's a thread about a guy that bought a boat that had been double decked:
http://forums.iboats.com/forum/boat...nature-deck-and-stringer-restoration?t=510077

You can expect to find the same or worse in that Sunbird.

 

[lakenormangal]

Ok, this is it, going to pick up the Corsair this morning and I will be a boat owner for the first time since 1985! Thanks for all the advice. This boat is what I can afford and my friend who rebuilt the motor and outdrive had planned on keeping this boat for a long time. But found he really wanted a bigger, faster boat ( he likes having the fastest cars, bikes ect.) My bf's old boat was always breaking down on lake, so it will be nice to have a very reliable boat in the motor dept.

 

[southkogs]

Common mantra 'round here is "without pictures, it didn't happen ..."

We demand proof!

 

[lakenormangal]

Just got home and will post pictures tonight. Got to load them into the computer. I went over the boat very carefully, taking into account all the advice I got here. I was able to pull up some loose edges of the carpeting and take a look at the redone floor, it looks pretty good, all glassed in. ( Yes I know the rot is probably lurking under the new floor) but for now, the new floor feels very secure, no soft spots. The original owner of the boat kept very good records, there are receipts for everything that was done to it. He had it winterized every year, and the outdrive was replaced in 1996. Over a 25 year period, there were about 7 times when it went in for issues with the steering cable, usually it needed adjustment. He had all the manuals ( the owners Sunbird manual as well as manuals for the outdrive, Trim Switch Kit, and Remote Control Concealed Side Mount ( something to do with the Trim Switch, you guys probably know what this is.)
I'm going to take it up to the lake next week and do some cruising around the lake, visit some friends at their docks. I know my dog Zoey will love it. She is a lake dog ( you cannot even say the "L" word without here going crazy, so we have to spell it.)
And this boat is going to be for my business. I'm a custom painter ( known for my flame paint) and I have done a number of custom paint jobs on boats. Next spring I'm going to flame this little guy. For now here's a picture of my lake junkie dog and one of my flame paint jobs.
Ok I'm having problems trying to upload the photos.

 

[lakenormangal]

Ok I'm trying again.

 

[lakenormangal]

and some flames.

 

[lakenormangal]

In all honesty, I can't wait to start enjoying this boat. My last boat, back in 1985 was a 19 ft Sidewinder with a 454 and a Berkley jet drive. I only took it out a few times before my bf at the time blew the motor. Had to sell it, and I have been jonesn for a boat ever since. I know its not a high end ride, but it should work for me. I just want to cruise around the lake, pull a towable or skier once in a while, visit friends. One thing I will be buying for it is a bimini top next spring.
Here's the weirdest thing, sitting in the boat today, it felt totally different now that's it mine. Before I was just a guest, now it feels "homey", does sound nuts?

 

[southkogs]

Nice job on the Camaro. Air brush work?

And no, sittin' in YOUR boat didn't sound nuts at all.