wife wants a bowrider, narrowed it down to 4 boats.. help please

[turbocorrado]

just got back from checking out the $3k wellcraft. boat is alot bigger then i was expecting, but its exactly what the wife wants (she was with me) the exterior is very clean, much cleaner then i was expecting. the floor felt very solid, the motor ran well and the guy was straight up about everything, he has a bunch of speed boats and whatnot. we spent a good hour going over all the little things that we saw on the boat. now onto some pics and what it needs.
the exhaust bellow is completely ripped in half, the big bellow above it has a crack, the third one is in perfect shape. (he told me this on the phone, i dont mind replacing them) the drive fluid reservoir on the engine (top right reservoir when looking at the engine) was empty, setting off the alarm, not to sure where its leaking at. its a closed loop cooling system and got to 170-180 and seemed to hold there. all the gauges work except the tach, the needle is broken off. i checked all the storage compartments everywhere and everything was straight, floors felt perfect, i stepped on every spot possible, except the ski tunnel.....there was 1 questionable spot. but for a $3k boat i cant expect it to be perfect. also the seats are pretty beat up, i also new this going into it, i dont mind doing new seats.

also, the guy said it has a newer version of the 4.3 in it, as he said its got the updated crank sensor in it

here are a few pics i took




this is the questionable spot. it was the only spot on the boat i could find like this. everything else was solid. it was on the starboard side, about 2/3 of the way into the tunnel

 

[JASinIL2006]

That black crud seeping out would worry me. Looks like something rotting underneath... Maybe a stringer?

 

[southkogs]

The Welcraft is giving me the willies. Nice looking hull, but you can't get this thing on the water to verify it performs well under load. Interior is all chewed up, and a potential soft spot in the floor. I'm not sure I'd risk $3k on that (even though Welcraft is a fine boat).

Though, the Admiral likes it and that fact alone is considerable.

I know the Max of that era is connected with Bayliner, but I actually liked the boats. I'm still leaning that direction (though feeling I would want the price down a little more like $3k). I'm hoping from the photos that the Max was garage kept. It won't be a speed demon, but it will be reasonable. Condition is key in the used boat game, and I've got the heebee-geebees that one's been ridden hard and put up wet.

Just my 2¢.

 

[SigSaurP229]

As weird as it may seem, I am actually leaning towards the Maxum, the 4.3 is known to be a great motor/outdrive combo.

The interior looks like it is a well maintained original interior, meaning that the previous owners took good care of the boat, and really when shopping for a used boat the only thing that matters is Care and Condition. The owner took enough care to cover it, meaning that they probably properly winterized it every year and kept maintenance up to date. While it appears to have come from the least reputable manufacturer it also seems to have been loved more by the owners.

The Sunbird interior looks good but it isn't original making me wonder what kind of problems might be lurking underneath. Those seat patterns are very recent.

As far as the boat with the 3.0 OMC it isn't going to get 42mph on a glass lake with 6 gallons and only the driver, if the owner is not being honest about this what else are they not being honest about.

As far as the Maxum goes, its been ridden really hard and put up wet it is overpriced junk. You will have at minimum $1500 worth of vinyl and interior work to get it right. The Staining on the transom coming from under the transom hooks is not usually a good sign either. All the Maintenance has been neglected for years don't do it.

 

[MikDee]

I still like the layout, & condition of the Maxum, you really can't go wrong with it. Basically SeaRay, Bayliner, & Maxum were all made by Brunswick, so they're very similar, each being a bit better made for the money IMO. I also like Wellcraft boats, but that one seems a bit ratty. I bet the Maxum is faster too, because it is a bit lighter, has a sleeker vee, with more strakes.

 

[bruceb58]

I would be worried about the u-joint bellows having a crack in it in the Wellcraft. I would have the drive pulled to see if there was water in the bellows.

Run away from the Maxum and any Bayliner from that era.

 

[tpenfield]

the problem is going to be . . . and this is what you are seeing . . . is that with a $3K boat, it is going to need about another $3k of work. So, your boat budget should really be about $6K.

Any way to get an ice pick or screw driver into that fiberglass void on the Wellcraft? That way you could feel if the wood is soft, etc.

You will probably have to see all of the boats of interest to really assess which is the best, knowing they will all need some work. Probably won't be on the water any time soon. You will not only have to do the work, but come up the learning curve a bit.

 

[turbocorrado]

the problem is going to be . . . and this is what you are seeing . . . is that with a $3K boat, it is going to need about another $3k of work. So, your boat budget should really be about $6K.

Any way to get an ice pick or screw driver into that fiberglass void on the Wellcraft? That way you could feel if the wood is soft, etc.

You will probably have to see all of the boats of interest to really assess which is the best, knowing they will all need some work. Probably won't be on the water any time soon. You will not only have to do the work, but come up the learning curve a bit.

i can get a bellow kit for $70, my wifes mom will be doing the interior, all i need to do is cover materials. leaving the interior alone i should be able to get the wellcraft on the water for ~$300

im gonna call the guy back today about that spot in the ski tunnel and see about investigating that further

 

[JASinIL2006]

turbo, do yourself a favor and read some threads in the Restoration forum. Hundreds of them start out just like this. "I knew my boat had a soft spot on the floor, but I convinced myself it was an isolated problem." "I saw the delaminating fiberglass in the ski locker, but I hoped it was just from the extra wear..." "I noticed the silicone sealant around the gimbal housing, but I thought the previous owner was just being extra cautious..."

If you're OK doing the sort of work shown in those restoration threads, then don't worry so much about it. If the idea of tearing up the floor and pulling out the transom gives you the willies, then proceed with caution. All these boats are of the era where you have a pretty good likelihood of inheriting some rot. Some of them (e.g., the Wellcraft) may already be showing signs of it. Personally, if the Wellcraft owner can't prove the stingers, etc. are in good shape (by letting you drill a hole or two in the side of the locker), I would assume they're bad.

 

[turbocorrado]

turbo, do yourself a favor and read some threads in the Restoration forum. Hundreds of them start out just like this. "I knew my boat had a soft spot on the floor, but I convinced myself it was an isolated problem." "I saw the delaminating fiberglass in the ski locker, but I hoped it was just from the extra wear..." "I noticed the silicone sealant around the gimbal housing, but I thought the previous owner was just being extra cautious..."

If you're OK doing the sort of work shown in those restoration threads, then don't worry so much about it. If the idea of tearing up the floor and pulling out the transom gives you the willies, then proceed with caution. All these boats are of the era where you have a pretty good likelihood of inheriting some rot. Some of them (e.g., the Wellcraft) may already be showing signs of it. Personally, if the Wellcraft owner can't prove the stingers, etc. are in good shape (by letting you drill a hole or two in the side of the locker), I would assume they're bad.

ive been doing some research in there, and was planning on posting the pic in there as well, as far as tackling a stringer/floor project. i dont mind it, BUT i would like whatever boat we get to last about 5 years before i have to do something like this. im not looking to rip everything apart in a year or 2. i mainly just needs to figure out if the wellcraft will last 5 years or not.
we havent looked at the maxum yet but the wife is already trying to rule it out, she doesnt like the color, she doesnt like that it sits in the water lower then the wellcraft, and she doesnt like that its associated with bayliner

 

[Scott Danforth]

ive been doing some research in there, and was planning on posting the pic in there as well, as far as tackling a stringer/floor project. i dont mind it, BUT i would like whatever boat we get to last about 5 years before i have to do something like this. im not looking to rip everything apart in a year or 2. i mainly just needs to figure out if the wellcraft will last 5 years or not.

Based on the photos of delaminating wood and the stream of rot goo along with the description of torn bellows, empty reservoir, bad interior and a soft spot, you will be pulling the Welcraft apart in 5 months, not 5 years. It has been neglected PERIOD. its a $1000 boat that needs $4000 worth of work. dont walk from it, run to the car, get in the car and speed away at 90mph.

 

[redneck joe]

Based on the photos of delaminating wood and the stream of rot goo along with the description of torn bellows, empty reservoir, bad interior and a soft spot, you will be pulling the Welcraft apart in 5 months, not 5 years. It has been neglected PERIOD. its a $1000 boat that needs $4000 worth of work. dont walk from it, run to the car, get in the car and speed away at 90mph.

Turbo read this one again.^^^^



You cannot water test, bellows in that bad of condition are not a good sign and you REALLY want to pull off the sterndrive and see whats in there etc etc.


Be careful on the wife wanting pretty over function especially on a first 'real' boat. She will NOT be happy sitting in the middle of the lake broke down, taking on water, whatever.


As far as the Maxum being 'related' to Bayliner couple things: I've owned three used Bay's and all fine boats that were well taken care of. Also if you think about it a Chevy and a Caddilac are both GM if you get my drift. And a well taken care of Chevy I'd rather have over a crapped up Caddy. You've got several folks worried about the Wellcraft, and several people leaning to the Maxum. Read up on those who favor the Maxum and look at their 'qualifications' to make those statement (realizing on the internet anyone can be an expert but still)


Your call, but be wary and heed advice. It is free but boat repairs are not.

 

[bruceb58]

I have owned a Bayliner from that era. Very well taken care of. I would not touch that Maxum with a 10 foot pole.

 

[oldjeep]

As far as the boat with the 3.0 OMC it isn't going to get 42mph on a glass lake with 6 gallons and only the driver, if the owner is not being honest about this what else are they not being honest about.

Although a bit lighter, my old 19ft bayliner would run 45 with a 3.0L and 4 in the boat.

 

[keith2k455]

You have a tough decision. What I found about used boats is that the good ones in any price range go very quickly. I'd keep looking, nothing good will come from rushing this. Ask yourself, if you spend 3k on this boat and find you NEED to immediately invest an unexpected extra 3k, could you do it? What about an extra 1k. This should help emphasize the need to buy the right boat. My advice is to watch the listings at least once a day and immediately call on the good ones.

 

[Brian 26]

my wifes mom will be doing the interior, all i need to do is cover materials.

​You should keep on the look out for a boat that is mechanically sounds but needs a new interior. A trashed interior absolutely kills the resale on a boat so you should be able to find one cheap and you'll be saving huge on the free labor. The downside to this of course is that it's peak boating season and you will have to be patient for the right deal.

 

[Cptkid570]

I hope you aren't being pursuaded by all of these posts. Everyone is going to have you buying a brand new boat soon.. As long as that brand new boat doesn't have 1 spot! Oh gosh! It has 1 stain on i! RUUUUUUUNNNNN!!!! Or, it doesn't have over 600 horsepower! It is slooow if it won't go over 90!!!

Come on everyone! He is just trying to upgrade a little bit.

Don't get the Maxum. It has a square windshield, so it will look dated and be more associated with a 1980's boat than a newer one.

That Wellcraft looks great. You will have fun redoing the interior. The one spot! Oh gosh! A stain! hahaha. Just find out where it is coming from. Looks like a non-structural area drains into there. I'm sure the ski locker on everyone's boat is perfect and you can eat off of the bottom of it right? Throw a towel over the seat until you can afford to have it reupholstered.

Mechanically: When you redo the u-joint bellow, don't get discouraged. It is a doable job, but it is a biotch! God created boating. The devil created the job of changing bellows. It sucks. I just did mine not long ago. I'd rather pull the engine than replace the bellows. The exhaust bellow if it doesn't reattach it the back, it doesn't matter, so don't worry about that one. Get the hinge pin tool, you'll need it (ebay).

Please do this though: The outdrive is likely out of oil because the U-joint bellow leaked and got it may have gotten water past the seal. I've read that the seal is to keep the oil out, maybe not so much keep the water out from the bellows side. So, you may have some chewed up upper gears in the outdrive. If so, it is not the end of the world, you can find them for about $250 on craigslist.. or a new one from SEI (Sterndrive engineering) for like $700. But, pull the cap off of the top of the outdrive, it will make for an easy inspection of those gears...especially since the outdrive lost its oil. There is a special socket for it..10 pin? 12 pin? something like that.

You are on a good track.. buy what the wife likes, not what we like on iboats.. you have our support either way.

 

[bruceb58]

The outdrive is likely out of oil because the U-joint bellow leaked

Wow! How did you come up with that? There may be water in there and that is why I suggested to have the drive pulled but oil draining out because of it is pretty far fetched at this pint.

 

[Cptkid570]

I've seen water in the U-joint bellow affect the seals in the upper portion of the outdrive. If water intrudes into the outdrive and dilutes the oil, then there can be problems. And, if the seals get blown out, the outdrive oil can leak out. I'm not really saying that is what happened. What my point, although not real clear, was is that the outdrive has no oil, so the upper gears should be inspected and that it isn't that hard to inspect them - 4 bolts and pry that top cap off. My discussion of the leaking bellow was just my trying to figure out why the outdrive oil leaked out.

Anyway, this post is an example of what I'm talking about:
http://forums.iboats.com/forum/engi...-outdrives/323471-gear-oil-in-u-joint-bellows

 

[SigSaurP229]

It isn't the stain I would worry about, as it is the stain in the big picture of things. Extremely neglected interior, extremely neglected engine maintenance, along with delaminating fiberglass around the stain and the transom tie downs. I would consider it as a $1200 NOT anywhere even remotely close to the $3000 range. A tear in the upholstery those happen, fish hooks get snagged Car keys get drug across cushions a completely rotten upholstery only happens for 1 reason and that is neglect. You don't buy a neglected boat and expect it to stay running for 5 years without sinking some heavy cash into it.

For instance, the bellows haven't been done. When was the last time the oil was changed? What about the gear oil? Impeller? Spark plugs? Was the engine winterized properly? Out drive leaking so we may have a possible seal failure?

All of this stuff costs time and money in the middle of boating season.

A redone interior having mom do it is great I have done several boats that way, HOWEVER no matter how good mom is it will still hurt the resale value of the boat.

Stick with the boat in the most original well maintained condition and it will pay off in the long term. The average buyer is going to look for good original condition and not so much name brand.

Manufacturers don't so much matter as care and condition on older boats. (except the Bayliner capri outboard which is probably the single ugliest boat ever made).

The only difference the manufacturer makes in the long run is how quickly a neglected boat will rot.