Where to find hull ID on 1971 Sidewinder?

Number21

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Last month I bought a 1971 Sidewinder for cheap. I'm not able to find a hull ID anywhere on the boat. Previous owner swears there was one but can't remember where. I have some paperwork showing it was inspected by the state police a couple years ago after being brought in from another state, with the ID. I'd really like to see that the number on the hull matches the title I have. Anybody know where I might find the number? I don't think they standardized hull IDs until about 1977...
 

Bob_VT

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Re: Where to find hull ID on 1971 Sidewinder?

You might not find it. Boats built previous to 1974 were very haphazard on where they placed serial numbers (The number was NOT considered to be a Hull Identification Number which is when the "standard" started).

I have a 1974 Sidewinder I am restoring now and mine has a Hull Identification Number in the transom. Here is the history from fiberclassics (a C&P)

A Brief History
By Dan Milford - April 6, 2004
From The Pages of FiberGlassics.

The Sidewinder trademark (for boats) was filed with the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office on January 6, 1969, under the name of Los Altos Marine Incorporated, located at 4898 El Camino Real, Los Altos, California. In their 1969 model full colour brochure, Sidewinder Boats claimed to be the world's largest designer/producer of V-bottom ski boats, with manufacturing facilities in California and Canada. Built for speed, Sidewinders were designed for the ultimate in racing, skiing, and personal pleasure. World record holder, Ken Baker, had designed two high performance hulls - the famous V bottom and the new tunnel. These hulls were multi-laminated and assembled by hand. Variety and choice were the order of the day with standard and deluxe versions, thirty-two colour combinations, and power plants from outboard through inboard-outboard and jet available. Appointed with choices of metalflake trim, racing stripes, tuck and roll wrap around vinyl seating, and colour keyed all weather carpeting, these stylish, powerful, and manoeuvrable boats turned heads at many a beach. (In fact they still do!)

Models available in 1969 were the V- bottom, low profile (Lo Pro) designs in 16 and 18 ft. lengths. Both could be had in the Deluxe version (16 ft. at 750 lb. and 18 ft. at 900 lb.) or the "stripped down" (100 lb. lighter) Standard versions. They could be had in outboard (135 hp max for the16 and 150 hp max for the 18), inboard/outboard (140 hp max for the 16 and 225 hp max for the 18) or jet drive (350 hp max for the 16 and 500 hp max for the 18 - although text in the brochure claims up to 600 horsepower was available!) Engines up to 455 cu. in. could be had. The tunnel model version, used predominately for racing, was available in either a 15 ft. or 17 ft. length, and could be custom built for single, double and triple outboard engine classes.

The revolutionary Super Sidewinder 16/18 ft. design was filed for a patent (by Ken Baker and Ronald Plescia) in the US on October 17, 1969 and granted patent on November 3, 1970 (Patent Number 219,118). Subsequent patent designs were filed and granted for the 14 ft. Super, XL deep-vee, and XL Tri-hull.

In 1970, Sidewinder relocated from Los Altos, up the road to 3545 El Camino Real, Palo Alto. In 1970 and '71 boats were also manufactured in Murfreesboro, Tennessee. Meanwhile Sidewinders were being manufactured under the Cobra name, by California Fiberglass Limited in British Columbia, Canada.

In 1971, Ken Baker, president of Sidewinder Marine, Inc. in Palo Alto, California was in litigation over a lawsuit filed by Sidewinder Marine against twenty manufacturers, who had copied the revolutionary Super Sidewinder design, first produced in 1970. Imitators included Marlin, Tahiti, Wriedt, and Taylor. In 1971/72 production moved from Palo Alto to Anderson, CA. and by July 1972, at least four manufacturers had admitted infringement on the Sidewinder design patents. About 1971 Canadian Sidewinder production moved to Ontario, where, by 1972, they were manufactured as Sidewinders - not Cobras, by California Glass Marine.

In 1974 the Thompson Boat Company purchased manufacturing rights for Sidewinder boats and continued to manufacture them under the Sidewinder banner at Peshtigo, Wisconsin. Later Sidewinders (by this time only the 16 and 18 ft. Super models) were built by Thompson in St. Charles, Michigan and finally in Swan Creek, Michigan.

In Canada the last Sidewinders were made in the late 1980's and California Glass Marine folded in the early '90's. The last US Sidewinder (the 18SS) appeared in the 1990 Thompson Boat Company brochure. Thompson met its demise in September 2002, when the assets were sold in a liquidation auction.


__________________
 

Number21

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Re: Where to find hull ID on 1971 Sidewinder?

mine has a Hull Identification Number in the transom.
Where exactly? The previous owner swears he saw it somewhere before. I also have a 1973 Carlson, and it's number was on a plate on the dash that was part of the light switches - but it's long gone.

(350 hp max for the 16 and 500 hp max for the 18 - although text in the brochure claims up to 600 horsepower was available!) Engines up to 455 cu. in. could be had.
Did they really have a 600hp 455 in 1969? That's gotta be a death machine! I just put a 140hp outboard on mine and it screams!
 

64osby

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Re: Where to find hull ID on 1971 Sidewinder?

Most HIN's on FG boats that I've seen are on the RH side upper part of the transom as facing, otherwise known as the starboard side.

Often tucked up by the rub rail. The are not highly defined and are filled with gelcoat. A really bright flashlight helps when looking.
 

V153

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Re: Where to find hull ID on 1971 Sidewinder?

Being a '71 you probly won't find a # etched into the gel coat anywhere. You might get lucky & find a tag stuck under the dash, or sometimes in the splashwell area. But why bother. If the paperwork you have'll fly with the local authorities why worry about it? Hitch it up!

Always cracks me up when someone mentions Sidewinder suing other manufacturers for copyright infringement. Kinda ironic when their basic design was origionally splashed from a Glastron 'Aqua-Lift' hull. Funny too cuz some'a those guys were friends & neighbors in the early days.
 

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Peter Eikenberry

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Re: Where to find hull ID on 1971 Sidewinder?

The USCG did not require HINs until 1972. So your boat most likely does not have one. We (I worked in the USCG Office of Boating Safety) were still going after manufacturers several years later for not putting the HINs on their boats. States can assign an HIN to boats built before 1972, and to home built boats. If there is an HIN on the paperwork that may be what it is, a state assigned HIN. It should have been put on the transom but many boat owners don't do it. If it has one it would be in the upper right hand corner of the transom, usually about two inches below the top. Newer boats (after 1984) have the HIN in two places.
 

southkogs

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Re: Where to find hull ID on 1971 Sidewinder?

Look for a capacity plate or ID plate in the boat (some had 'em, some didn't) - usually you'll find them near the helm or back near the engine. If it's there, it should be pretty obvious.
 

Number21

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Re: Where to find hull ID on 1971 Sidewinder?

If I can't find one, what would be the best way to permanently add the number that is on my title?

Normally I keep my boats inside my shop, but I had to leave them at a storage lot for a couple weeks while I move. I was just thinking I have absolutely no way to prove either of the hulls are mine besides a piece of paper that doesn't conclusively match up to either of them...
 

Bob_VT

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Re: Where to find hull ID on 1971 Sidewinder?

I have NO IDEA what the rules are in your area.

Here in VT when I registered my 1986 starcraft the State registered it as a 1970 because there were no numbers available. The hull was a rescue from salvage and it was just a pile of a few pieces. When the state assigned me a new hull number it was the registration number that I have displayed on the hull.

I guess I am lucky that my sidewinder is a 1974 with a hull number AND it is also embossed in the transom along with a Made in Canada mark. I have been over and inside every inch of the hull and did not find and hidden numbers in mine.

Is there a concern that you will not be able to retrieve your hull from storage?
 

southkogs

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Re: Where to find hull ID on 1971 Sidewinder?

Mostly, What Bob said ^^^^^^^

If I can't find one, what would be the best way to permanently add the number that is on my title?
You can order a plate for it, or make one, and mount it in a relatively hidden spot. Mount a matching one on the trailer - they typically won't get separated for a bit. Photograph it and catalog it. It's not permanent, but really even a HIN that's stamped into the hull isn't either. If someone wants to grind it out, they can do it.
 

V153

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Re: Where to find hull ID on 1971 Sidewinder?

If I can't find one, what would be the best way to permanently add the number that is on my title?
Have an engraver make up a tag(s) & screw/glue em to the hull somewhere.
 

Number21

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Re: Where to find hull ID on 1971 Sidewinder?

Is there a concern that you will not be able to retrieve your hull from storage?
Not really, I'm just paranoid about leaving my stuff outside of my locked shop. I already had an issue with the caretaker's dog chewing off the trailer wiring on both boats - had to get the cops to find out it was his dog, looked like somebody cut it up.
 

64osby

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Re: Where to find hull ID on 1971 Sidewinder?

On one of my little tinny's the state assigned a HIN. I used a small piece of scrap aluminum and carved the numbers in it using a Dremmel tool. Then riveted it to the boat.
 
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