Porpoising 16' semi-v w/ 40-HP Mercury need help have pictures

huffduf41

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Hey guys I recently upgraded my Sea Ark 1648mv from a 25-HP mercury to a 40-HP. I originally had it mounted so the top of the motor "bracket" was resting on the top of the transom but it porpoised really bad. I moved it up two holes and it got better but still can't open her up without porpoising.

I have a full size trolling battery and cranking battery in the very back of the boat, they could be moved forward but it wouldn't be fun. I'd also need a new (larger) compartment up there.

The 40 was propped perfect for my 24' pontoon but now needs a different prop (rpms are too high). I'm not sure what prop it needs or if the correct prop would help the porpoising issue. Basically I'm a mess please help....









 
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Texasmark

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Re: Porpoising 16' semi-v w/ 40-HP Mercury need help have pictures

Find your current pitch usually marked on the prop hub front or rear...front as I recall. Would be something like 10 x 12. The 12 would be the pitch. For every 200 rpms you need to drop (more pitch decreases rpms) increase 1" in pitch. Prop for top of recommended rpm range with normal load which is 5500 rpms for the 4 cyl classic styled engine. If rpms are too low, less pitch by the same ratio to bring them up. Engine needs to run at upper limit at WOT to offer the best reliable performance.

Porpoising is caused either by hull problems which I don't see on your boat being light and alum with a ribbed bottom, or by speed/tilt mal-adjustments. Having trim makes it easy but with a tilt pin read this and adjust accordingly......manual trim if you will.

Engine trim (angle of engine to boat) determines the boat's attitude with respect to speed and the water. If the engine is tucked in too far....lower unit close to the transom, it will make the boat plow (bow down) causing loss of speed and hard steering.

As the lower unit is moved away from the transom (trimmed out) the bow comes up out of the water giving less wetted area, more speed and better steering control.

FOR A GIVEN SPEED: If the bow comes up too far, due to the engine being trimmed out too far you will porpoise, especially in a boat like yours where all the weight is where it is....heavier engine just aggravated that....you went from 112 to 177# back there. 2 ways to stop it: Increase speed till it stops, or trim in till it stops for the speed that you are running.

Some times you can have an unstable condition on the way to WOT...depends on your rig. With no power trim and tilt, using a tilt pin in a fixed position, you could have an unstable point as you speed up to WOT mph, where the boat will porpoise. As your speed continues to increase and you move through this unstable area, the problem will stop. If you think you have this problem you need to find out before you start changing things.....other than addressing your rpms not being right. If you try to "go through" this instability and the porpoising comes and goes, fine. If you try to go through it, it may not exist and the porpoising would become violent at which time you need to shut her back till it stops and fix the problem as mentioned.

So diddle your tilt pin till you stop it (this is called getting your setup right) and then get a prop pitched for the 5500 rpms under normal load, or if you get no where with just the tilt pin due to lack of speed, re-prop first.

All transom angles aren't the same. Some, like on Johns are too shallow meaning that even if you tuck it in all the way it's not enough. You may have this problem and if so, your alternative is to move weight around. Solid concrete blocks are heavy for their volume.

What's interesting is that you had a 25 which worked fine and now the 40 doesn't. Discounting the rpms being in the wrong place I see two things: The increased weight on the transom upset the balance and is causing the problem or the tilt/trim of this engine is different from your 25 and not right for the speed/new transom weight the 40 adds.

At your current height, with that center rib right in front of the prop, you may have a little blowout (ventilation) especially in turns at high speeds. If this is a problem, and it probably will be, you need to either get a cupped prop or lower the engine back down one notch. I have a $100 Turning Point Hustler alum prop that I bought off this site that is cupped and ported (holes under the blades to improve hole shot). Mine engine is 90 hp. For your engine you should check with them first before you buy to see if it is cupped. On smaller hp props sometimes they back off amenities in the prop. If cupped like mine, this would be a good inexpensive prop. Cupping will give you the effect of about 1" additional pitch at WOT so include that in your new pitch calculations. You will need a hub kit to go with it so do your homework.

HTH,
Mark
 

NSBCraig

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Re: Porpoising 16' semi-v w/ 40-HP Mercury need help have pictures

Slap some smart tabs on it.
 

huffduf41

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Re: Porpoising 16' semi-v w/ 40-HP Mercury need help have pictures

I moved the pin that limits the trim in one down to its lowest setting and it helped a lot. I think I'll be good to go once its propped correctly. It currently has a 11.25 diameter 10" pitch prop on it, I don't have a tach but its definitely over reving. Any idea on what prop I should go to? Thanks!
 

Texasmark

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Re: Porpoising 16' semi-v w/ 40-HP Mercury need help have pictures

I agree if that engine and prop came off a house boat and it's now on your boat it is under propped.

Ok let's guess.

The engine has a 2:1 gear ratio in the lower unit meaning the prop turns 1/2 as fast as the engine.

The engine is supposed to turn 5500 rpms at WOT max.

The boat is light and fast for that engine and 2 people.

Going to guess prop slip at 15%

Going to guess 35 mph for your top end to start.

Running the go-fast.com BAM prop slip calculator to get prop pitch we get:

Gear ratio 2; pitch?; rpm 5500; calculate 41 max using 35 and 15% slip; 15% slip; 35 actual. Punch the calculate button on pitch and you get 16.

Going to the top of THIS page (not the BAM page) and punching on props......iboats is here to sell marine products so we need to use them.....

They have the Michigan Wheel Vortex model 3 blade alum 10" dia x 16" pitch. iboats p/n is 992409 and hub kit p/n is 114. They have both with free shipping and no sales tax for $81.20.....sounds like a deal to me. You can order with your credit card right off the site. Can't get any easier than that.

That's a guess but a pretty close one. As I may have said a large diameter low pitch prop is for pushing heavy loads. Your 10" is much better suited to run that boat from a diameter standpoint and the increase of 6 inches will usually get you 200 more rpm per inch, but with the big diameter change, you will do better than that. So you probably were running 1000 to 1400 rpm too high and yes sir, you were too high.

Let us know how it works. Pretty sure your porpoising problem will disappear. Like I said it may be a spot you just power through. With your tilt pin change you can see where you needed to go.

Mark
 
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lncoop

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Re: Porpoising 16' semi-v w/ 40-HP Mercury need help have pictures

A lot more weight up front should help, but you may not be able to do much about it. Hopefully I'm wrong, but I have a 1651 MV with a 25 on it (tiller steer open boat, so not as heavy as yours of course) and that thing is a rocket. Max HP on mine, and I think yours too, is 35, and I can't imagine running anything bigger on it than what I have now.
 

NYBo

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Re: Porpoising 16' semi-v w/ 40-HP Mercury need help have pictures

Hopefully I'm wrong, but I have a 1651 MV with a 25 on it (tiller steer open boat, so not as heavy as yours of course) and that thing is a rocket. Max HP on mine, and I think yours too, is 35, and I can't imagine running anything bigger on it than what I have now.
A boat with remote steering is almost always rated for higher maximum horsepower than the same hull with tiller steering, so I'm guessing he's okay. I imagine the max for his boat is 50 or 60.
 

Texasmark

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Re: Porpoising 16' semi-v w/ 40-HP Mercury need help have pictures

My boat is a lot like that boat, 1 foot longer and a foot (roughly) wider, alum hull, roughly same inside setup. It's BIA name plate certified for 130. I run right at 50 with my 90 and 24p prop at 5700ish rpm.

Mark
 

lncoop

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Re: Porpoising 16' semi-v w/ 40-HP Mercury need help have pictures

A boat with remote steering is almost always rated for higher maximum horsepower than the same hull with tiller steering, so I'm guessing he's okay. I imagine the max for his boat is 50 or 60.

That's good. Hope you get it sorted out, huff.
 

huffduf41

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Re: Porpoising 16' semi-v w/ 40-HP Mercury need help have pictures

Wow thanks for the help. Mark is correct the boat is rated for a 50-HP engine. That prop sounds like a deal, my only concern is if it's cupped. I have no problem paying more if it means I buy one and I'm done. Thanks again
 

lncoop

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Re: Porpoising 16' semi-v w/ 40-HP Mercury need help have pictures

Most dealers will take a prop back provided it's still in new condition, so you could probably experiment a little.
 

Texasmark

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Re: Porpoising 16' semi-v w/ 40-HP Mercury need help have pictures

, my only concern is if it's cupped. I

Probably not but you can ask iboats. The only alum that I know of that's cupped is the Turning Point Hustler of which I have one of them too. You have a good question there and you are on the right track. As I said previously, with your engine sitting as high as it is you could have ventilation problems in rough water and in fast sharp turns. But you can lower it back down if needed, or slow down in both senarios which will stop the ventilating.

HTH,
Mark
 

Texasmark

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Re: Porpoising 16' semi-v w/ 40-HP Mercury need help have pictures

Most dealers will take a prop back provided it's still in new condition, so you could probably experiment a little.

Not around here, and not for that price.
 

pootnic

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Re: Porpoising 16' semi-v w/ 40-HP Mercury need help have pictures

As Texasmark suggest a 16" prop will get you close.
I have a 1652,used to use a 40hp...had a 15" prop.
 

NYBo

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Re: Porpoising 16' semi-v w/ 40-HP Mercury need help have pictures

Mark is correct the boat is rated for a 50-HP engine.
I've been called many things in my life, but "Mark" isn't one of them!:laugh:
 

huffduf41

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Re: Porpoising 16' semi-v w/ 40-HP Mercury need help have pictures

Whoops sorry about that!!! Thanks again for all the help. If I'm understanding everything correct you guys are saying a 10" dia 15" cupped prop should do the trick?
 

Texasmark

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Re: Porpoising 16' semi-v w/ 40-HP Mercury need help have pictures

Whoops sorry about that!!! Thanks again for all the help. If I'm understanding everything correct you guys are saying a 10" dia 15" cupped prop should do the trick?

Like I told you or someone else on here in the last day or two, cupping usually amounts to an additional inch of pitch at WOT. So 15+1 = 16 which was my best guesstimate! And I also said that you probably will need the cupping but didn't push it as I didn't expect you to have much luck finding a cheap, cupped, alum. prop for a 40 hp engine. So go and get your 10x15 cupped prop and have fun!

Go back to the iboats propeller selector and this time punch in 15 for pitch.

Go down to Hustler. Prop #2130 1510 plus Hub #11. Geez better price yet $98.24 It doesn't list the hub separately so possibly that's the price for both....I mean yo can't run the prop without the hub.

Now double click on the word Hustler in left column. Then on that page, down below the pic of a prop, look for the tab marked "Product Info". Carefully read through this and you will see what this prop can do for you. It IS cupped like they do on the bigger props for bigger engines.

In that info guide, they also indicate that the 1510 is ported. Ported means small holes are drilled in the barrel below the leading edge of each blade. Porting is usually a good idea on heavy boats that are hard to plane but use a lot of pitch at high speed as they have little drag....aka padded bass boats. You have a lot of weight and a pad bottom which doesn't come out of the hole very well so you don't want much pitch. Once up and running you have very little drag on the pad and you want lots of pitch. You can have both by porting a high pitched prop and that is why they get (some mfgrs do) ported.

On your boat, with all your weight in the stern it might help you even though you have a nice flat hull at the transom that planes out easily. Actually it could allow you to increase your pitch an inch or two. But for now stick with the Hustler 15p cupped. The ports allow the engine to rev up slightly over normal in the hole shot which allows you to develop your HP faster which turns your prop harder and pushes you out of the hole better. Once up and running the holes seal off and you don't know they are there.

However, if you do buy the Hustler and do find yourself overreving in the hole shot, and it not caused by ventilating (sucking air in from the surface) with the engine height you have, then you may choose to just seal the holes. JB weld will seal them right up for you and solve that problem.

Edit:

I checked the shipping onfo again and it looks like you will get all that you need to install and run the prop. One additional thing in your carton will be a spacer. This spacer is to ensure that the removable hub type propellers fit prop shafts (length) designed for rubber type pressed in hubs, like were used years ago. The important thing is to ensure that the prop spins freely when installed and is tight on the prop shaft. On that sized engine probably 40 ft-lbs of torque would work. My 90 is spec'd at 55.

If they don't indicate otherwise, the spacer will go on before the nut and lock washer and may replace the existing tab lock washer on your engine currently. The way you will know is just see how the spacer and nut fit the splined shaft. You want the tab washer on the spline, as it is splined, and you need threads for the nut since it is threaded. Use your best judgement. Just wind up with a tight fitting prop on the shaft.

Mark
 
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lncoop

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Re: Porpoising 16' semi-v w/ 40-HP Mercury need help have pictures

Don't know and really don't give a pfffffft.

Okay. That was supposed to be a joke. Guess something was lost in translation. I have swapped out props with a couple of dealers here and it's never been an issue. I always clear it in advance and don't attempt to return one that doesn't still look new. YMMV.
 
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