Yamaha jet boats- worthy?

[noclutch]

I'll probably get flamed for even mentioning them as many might consider them oversized PWCs and not "real boats", but they do seem to have some upsides, and downsides, that are hard for me to ignore when considering a new 22-24' bow rider/sport boat to be used primarily on a river or ICW, and occasional lake. I know Sea Doo also made up to 2012 them so I guess they might be considered also. Sea Ray has one this year I believe and I know there some crazy expensive yachts built with jets, but Yamaha looks to be the big player in this size, genre and price range.

Pluses-
Yamaha quality. Yes not everything they do is the absolute best, but most even further from the worst (thinking motorcycle/engines/pianos etc/overall engineering wise)
Shallow draft/no dangling spinning parts to run a foul with, literally.
Relatively simple drives.
Relatively small/low profile engines and underhull outdrives leaving much passenger space.
Fewer companies of parts/suppliers- less of mix and match of parts. More like "unitized" design and assembly like automobiles.
Twin engines- can motor to safey with one down.

Minuses-
Finding a qualified mechanic nearby who's even seen one might be difficult. But maybe the average PWC specialist is up to the task?
Re-powering one would tie you to Yamaha, period. Can't jump brands as with outboards. Can't source used power from other brand boats as with I/Os. But it is a Yamaha engine and drive.
Sucking up vegetation fouls the pump. My favorite place for boating has a fair amount of hyacinth and lilly pads floating and lining the shores.... What about garbage bags or a PFD part or koozie? I know they have a cleaning port, but does that mean that whatever they injest can usually be extracted by hand? Is damage common after such cloggings?
Peculiar handling characteristics. No true neutral. No skeg/lower unit for steering for emergency maneuvering and keeping the rear end planted in corners. Do the "spin out" easily like PWCs? I'm very versed in the handling of my stand up jet ski and figure that there are similarities.
Few options ordering. They seem to come in just a few color combinations or factory customizations, somewhat like autos.

Now consider that all of the above pontificaton is based on online brochure digesting and speculation. I'd love to get some feedback from individuals that have spent some time testing or owning these Yamahas ( or SeaDoos for that matter) and what their take away impressions might be. I did check one Yamaha out in 2007 prior to buying a less expensive 2007 Regal 2000, and at the time thought the Yamaha QC seemed lacking. But over the last four years of Regal ownership I'm finding them not all they are cracked up to be in that price point/size range. But more importantly I couldn't get my head around a jet-drive and didn't consider it a "real" boat without a propeller out back. Now I may be more open to consider one.

I welcome any and all input, positive and negative, and thanks!

 

[Slip Away]

Re: Yamaha jet boats- worthy?

Not gonna comment on "Worthy"...

My advice, wait until next year when you can look, compare and price the new Glastron, Chaparral and Four Winns jet boats against the Yamaha's.
All 3 will have the same power/jet combination from Rotax (BRP), same that was in Sea Doo before they got out of the sport boat business.

 

[Slip Away]

Re: Yamaha jet boats- worthy?

May 02, 2013: Rec Boat Holdings, builder of the Four Winns, Glastron and Wellcraft brands, today announced its entry into the jetboat segment, relaunching the Scarab brand as a jetboat line and adding two new jet models in the Glastron line.
The new boats from Rec Holdings are scheduled to roll out as soon as this summer. A long-term supply agreement with BRP's Marine Propulsion Systems division enables the company to power the new boats with its quality Rotax 4-TEC 1503 jet propulsion system.

“The Scarab launch and entrance into the jet segment is the next evolution for the company and is part of the overall business plan of expansion and investment in the marine segment,” Rec Boat Holdings president Roch Lambert said in a statement.

Nashville, GA - Chaparral Boats, Inc. announced a supply agreement today with Bombardier Recreational Products (BRP) to power a planned new line of jet boats, slated for introduction later this year.

“BRP is excited to begin this relationship with Chaparral Boats, a company with a proud heritage, excellent reputation and one that shares our commitment to the marine industry,” said Alain Villemure, Vice President and General Manager of BRP’s Marine Propulsion System division.

“BRP’s Rotax 4-TEC in-board jet propulsion system is a proven power source and the perfect complement to Chaparral’s award-winning line-up of boats

...@!^

 

[haulnazz15]

Re: Yamaha jet boats- worthy?

Well, there's not much you didn't cover in your original pros/cons list. They are a good boat for many people, but fall short of a traditional I/O prop drive for tracking purposes (both for slow-speed and water sports). I guess I'd wonder why you'd be trading an '07 Regal for a Yamaha that does basically the same thing. I guess if you really want to spend more money to get a boat of roughly the same quality with a different outdrive type, then go ahead. I just don't think you're going to get any more utility out of one unless you are just really concerned about the prop being a safety issue.

They are generally less fuel-efficient than a prop-drive, but not enough to really make a fuss about. We aren't talking about 70's berkeley/jacuzzi jet drives here. While they don't technically have a "neutral", there is a neutral position for the nozzle bucket, which serves the purpose of directing the thrust downward so it doesn't really move anywhere unless you are in really shallow water (3' or less) with an irregular surface.

If you frequently need to run in 3' or less of water, sure go get one. If not, then I don't see the purpose unless you just really like the deck layout. They probably handle about the same as your Regal in the chop, but as you get to the bigger boats, the flat pad on the jet boats doesn't cut the waves like a deep-V will.

 

[Toddavid]

Re: Yamaha jet boats- worthy?

I have not been on a new model, but my buddy's few year old SX240 is *loud*. Droning loud when underway.

"Supposedly" the current versions are quieter?

These are also light boats, which does not help when in the chop. They ride pretty rough for the size of boat that they are.

 

[H20Rat]

Re: Yamaha jet boats- worthy?

So a couple things about jets (promise, this won't be my usual jets rant that I get on!) The newer yamaha jets are very, very nice boats. If you are doing a side-by-side comparison between them and I/O's, make sure its apples to apples. A 22ft yamaha is not the same as a 22ft I/O, you need to add at least 2 feet or more to the I/O to get the same interior space.

In my case, I boat on a shallow river with lots of sandbars, so a jet is a perfect choice. I also do lots of boating at the cabin with no sand bars and lots of water, and I'm looking at a conventional I/O for that. If you have the need for it, they are great, if you don't, then I'd have to give it a second thought. (still nothing wrong with the choice, but in the used market, used late model yamaha jets don't exist.)

 

[noclutch]

Re: Yamaha jet boats- worthy?

haulnazz- Thanks! - I was primarily looking at the 240 for more room as well as less draft and maintenance.
My 20' Regal is fine for 2 people, but gets cramped quickly with 4, and 5 is a pain. Also, the queen wants a head!!LOL So maybe we'll trade Regarding handling the rougher waters, while the 240 and 2000 weigh about the same, the extra length of the Yamaha 240 would probably be better than the Regal, which isn't that good say at wake crossings. I do accidentally stray in sub-3' deep waters and without any consequences , yet, but not having to worry about it so much would be nice indeed. The maintenance cost of the I/O are already rearing their ugly head. My guess is the jet drives are basically maintenance free? Lastly, I do have a mild case of "new boat-itis"now that summer is upon us, and sorta searching for a salve to calm the itch! I would consider an outboard that did everything for me, but as mentioned in another thread, non-fishing dedicated outboard powered with a head (thus 22-23') and creature comfort lay outs are basically non-existent, and they would still have a 3' draft, but a little less maintenance and upkeep than an I/O. So yes, I'm in a quandary.

 

[noclutch]

Re: Yamaha jet boats- worthy?

Smokincrater- you're definitely right about the spacious layouts of the jets, but unfortunately even at 21'they still have no head Probaly more of a hull/ cockpit depth thing I guess.

 

[moosehead]

Re: Yamaha jet boats- worthy?

Noclutch, your pros and cons list is reasonably complete. We had a '04 SD Speedster 200 with twin Rotax engines and enjoyed it immensly even though it was closer to a PWC than the Yami's you are looking at. Even so, the SD was a much nicer craft than many would imagine, and the newer generation 20'+ Yami's are far superior in fit, finish, amenities, etc. It was fast, light, and reasonably easy on maintenance and winterization. Trailering was a breeze. Water handling is quite different vs. a boat with a screw in the water, but is easily learned and can be highly maneuverable. Clearing debris can work reasonably well with Yami's gate system, or if a particularly stubborn obstacle is caught, via a swimmer. Wood sticks or ropes are much more damaging obstacles to a jet and can chew up impellars and the tube surrounding it.

All that said, we likely would not again consider a jet vs. an equally or better equipped I/O, direct drive, or newer generation outboard, primarily for the much increased holeshot power, significantly more stable handling, and real/perceived durability. This will get me torched, but IMO, a jetboat is just not as seaworthy as a propped boat.

Despite impressive speed, the jets would bog down pulling a heavier load, or a waterskier, and cavitate with air under load. The boat was so light and squirelly that it spooked many guests, particularly if half or more loaded. Under certain wind and water conditions, the SD would porpoise (bow bounce), and though exciting, getting a 20' boat airborne on an inland lake is nuts. In rough water, even the captain would get puckered. Lastly, I get the impression that the larger Yamaha and SD recent generation boats, though extremely nice, might be underpowered once pushing over 20', particularly with added swim platforms, seating, storage, towers, etc. The last comment may not be at all accurate, just my conjecture.

YMMV

 

[haulnazz15]

Re: Yamaha jet boats- worthy?

haulnazz- Thanks! - I was primarily looking at the 240 for more room as well as less draft and maintenance.
My 20' Regal is fine for 2 people, but gets cramped quickly with 4, and 5 is a pain. Also, the queen wants a head!!LOL So maybe we'll trade Regarding handling the rougher waters, while the 240 and 2000 weigh about the same, the extra length of the Yamaha 240 would probably be better than the Regal, which isn't that good say at wake crossings. I do accidentally stray in sub-3' deep waters and without any consequences , yet, but not having to worry about it so much would be nice indeed. The maintenance cost of the I/O are already rearing their ugly head. My guess is the jet drives are basically maintenance free? Lastly, I do have a mild case of "new boat-itis"now that summer is upon us, and sorta searching for a salve to calm the itch! I would consider an outboard that did everything for me, but as mentioned in another thread, non-fishing dedicated outboard powered with a head (thus 22-23') and creature comfort lay outs are basically non-existent, and they would still have a 3' draft, but a little less maintenance and upkeep than an I/O. So yes, I'm in a quandary.

Well, most runabout boats don't have a head until you get to the 23'+ range from what I've typically seen. You need to make sure she wants to be in the cramped head in the heat with a porta potti to begin with, because it's not exactly luxurious in most boats of that size. I'm not sure what "maintenance costs" you are referring to, aside from changing out a water pump impeller in the drive unit every few years (really cheap if you do it yourself). You still need to winterize a jet boat the same way as the I/O aside from having to drain water from the manifolds. The impeller/wear rings on jet drives can require maintenance just like I/O's do, it's just different parts. Is your Regal a bowrider? I'd find it hard to believe it gets cramped in a 20' boat with 4 people unless you guys bring tons of gear along. I can see 6 adults start to push the limits with gear included.

 

[haulnazz15]

Re: Yamaha jet boats- worthy?

If you are doing a side-by-side comparison between them and I/O's, make sure its apples to apples. A 22ft yamaha is not the same as a 22ft I/O, you need to add at least 2 feet or more to the I/O to get the same interior space.

I know you've mentioned this before, but I haven't seen evidence of that at all in my comparisons. The interior space on the boats is virtually the same for I/O vs Jet boat. In the the 24' class, all three I/O's I looked at were rated 12/13 persons, while the Yamaha SX240 is rated for 11. Obviously any of them would be ridiculously cramped with that many people, but the usable space is identical. Typically seating for 4 in the bow, and 7-8 behind the windshield. Most of the I/O's had a sunpad or convertible seating whereas the Yamaha has two rear-facing seats. All of the boats I viewed measured between 23'6" and 23'11" LOA, with the I/O's having an option for an extended swim platform if desired.

 

[OrangeTJ]

Re: Yamaha jet boats- worthy?

We have a 2011 Yamaha SX210, which we purchased after cross-shopping similar sized boats from Monterey, Sea Ray, Cobalt (used), Four Winns and Chap (all nice boats, BTW). For our uses, we love it. I'll keep this brief.

Pluses: Very strong holeshot, particularly given the power rating. Far harder holeshot than any similar sized/powered I/O I've been on and does a great job pulling skiers, tubers, boarders of any size.
We love the interior layout with full wraparound seating and very spacious bow area
Great integrated swim deck with a built-in table mount (table is included) that occupies the space covered by a raised "sun pad" on most I/O boats
Extremely maneuverable at any speed. At idle, the boat can do a 360 almost inside of it's own length
Easy to get close to beach and back in with the swim deck facing the shore rather than the bow - works well with the kids and generally makes it much easier to get in and out when hanging at the beach
No props in the water, although I still discourage people from being in the water near the stern just to avoid developing bad
habits
Negatives: Louder inside than a comparable sized I/O or inboard
Not great tracking at no wake speed - requires attention at the helm. This is mitigated but not eliminated with aftermarket steering/tracking fins
High freeboard, relatively low weight and no outdrive in the water make it susceptible to getting pushed around by the wind at low/no speed
If you boat in weed infested waters, look elsewhere. We don't, so it's a non-issue for us. The boats have easily accessible clean-out ports but that's not something I'd want to have to do with any frequency

Let me know if you have any other questions.

 

[OrangeTJ]

Re: Yamaha jet boats- worthy?

Two more things, now that I've gone back and read your original post more thoroughly:

1. No, they don't spin out easily. You can make them spin out but it takes some doing. Not at all like any PWC I've been on in that regard. Mine has aftermarket steering fins and it carves through turns beautifuly. Those fins also immensely helped in tracking when pulling a boarder, though it's obviously not on par with a purpose-built tow boat in that regard.
2. Maintenance is easy simply. No bellows, gimbals, cooling water impellers, motor alignment checks, trim fluid, etc.. Change the oil and filters, change the plugs every year, grease a few linkages and two zirks and you're good. Everything is super easy to reach and there's plenty of room to work in the engine bay.

 

[dvtran]

Re: Yamaha jet boats- worthy?

My friend has a 08 AR230. It has a wicked hole shot and can turn on a dime. It would not work for me because the one I would want would be way out of my price range. I also don't know if the newer ones have a better charging system than the trickle charger that is on my buddies Yammy. I need a big alternator for all of the stereo equipment I haul around. They are fun to drive are very roomy with a 8 and a half foot beam. Yamaha nailed it with their interior design. They utilize every square inch and make it very comfortable for 8 adults plus. The Yammys will get on plane 3 times faster than my Bayliner. Just lower the price and get a better charging system in and I am sold.

 

[H20Rat]

Re: Yamaha jet boats- worthy?

Despite impressive speed, the jets would bog down pulling a heavier load, or a waterskier, and cavitate with air under load.

Something was wrong then... One advantage of a jet is that there is almost no connection between the speed and the load. An engine connected to a jet can put full RPM's out without moving an inch, it doesn't make any difference since you aren't using a prop to 'crawl' through the water, you are just pumping water. ANY cavitation with a jet is bad, it will destroy your impeller fairly quickly. (I've had PWC impellers destroyed from cavitation, it eats the metal away at the blade root.)

A good example is that my jet hits 5500 rpm. (merc V6). Doesn't matter if its me alone, or me +5 others + 30 gallons of fuel, its still going to hit exactly 5500 rpm.

 

[JimS123]

Re: Yamaha jet boats- worthy?

I like to go in shallow water to get to my favorite fishing spot. I also like to boat in areas that are a bit weedy. Finally, my local creek where I launch most often has had high water recently because of heavy rains, thus its clogged with sticks, plastic bags, and general debris.

My I/O goes thru just fine. I just trim up and go right thru. At worst I may kick up some mud but my SS prop hasn't needed repair in over 25 years.

My OB runs thru effortless. Trim up and it can't hit the bottom and a few sticks just bounce off the hull and I don't even know I hit them.

My jet (PWC) has to stay home! Any amount of debris goes right in to the impeller and I'm dead in the water. Even when the water is clean the shallow spots are off limits to me because its just so powerful that it sucks things up from the bottom and then I have a huge repair bill. If I get into an area with floating weeds its a constant battle to keep the drive train clear.

If god forbid the I/O or OB do need a prop repair its off to the prop shop and in 1 day I get it back and we're good to go again. Do the prop change myself and no labor charge. I admit on the jet I've never needed an impeller change, but suck some stuff up and the wear ring will be toast. Half a day to tear it down and the cost is more than a prop repair.

The PWC has its place and I won't give mine up. But for the family boat or the fishing boat you couldn't give me a jet.

 

[skipper6567]

Re: Yamaha jet boats- worthy?

MARINE MECHANIC,LIVE TO GIANT TUNA FISH, LOVE SPEED, MY OPINION, JET BOATS ARE FUN FOR 15 MINS!! WAY TOO $$$$ FOR WHAT YOU GET. Boat/motor/trailer are a dime a dozen. Older fiberglass boats in my opinion were built better,thats not to say all, but as a whole, older used more glass, weight and fuel consumption was not a big factor. strenth of new boats may be the same or more due to the use of lighter carbon fiber, composites, but that lighter boat which may be faster more efficient will ride like a car with 100psi in the tires. older hulls are slower, not slow, just slower, but in the chop you dont need a kidney belt.. also fiberglass does not rot.. 1 year old or 30 years old its still fiberglass. Older engines, less crap aka sensors,computers..ect less stuff to fix WHEN they break..and they will!! Im sure there will be input from the folks who paid for my 2 houses and 7 boats and many other toys.. if you cant find a nice hull 17ft to 22ft with I/O power on a trailer for 4-5k youre not looking in the right places. I live on the atlantic. The salt water does a job on engines,outdrives..but not the fiberglass. If you want that," I feel safe because I have a new boat feeling without the nausea that goes with the insane price tag of a new boat, get older hull for short money and just drop a brand new crate engine in, use the old outdrive,just have it resealed. There is no reason why you cant haved a 20ft hull on a trailer with a BRAND NEW ENGINE for 10-12k. What fool would buy a boat from a dealer lats say for arguments sake 2013 22ft bla bla with a bla bla 150-200hp o/b or bla bla i/o setup for 60,000.00$ then pay sales tax, then insurance, and OH dont forget the maint that HAS TO BE DONE AT A CERTIFIED SHOP. now we are at over 66,000.00 for a toy that THE VERY NEXT DAY YOU COULD NOT GET 50K FOR IT! These numbers are not inflated. This scenerio happend to a family friend. I know this got off the topic kinda but the point is dont go with a jet boat because you think its cheaper. I took out a customers sugar bay extreme, 12ft or so with a 240hp merc sport jet, 2001. 20 min ride, 10 in ocean,10 in flat calm river, its like new. 0 to 30-40mph in seconds,
20mph to-55 mph snaps your head, only 5-6 seconds..sick!! fun!! adrenaline rush...did that a few times.. OK now what...cons..seas were 1-2ft gentle wind, boat slapps, going with em and into them, cant hold a course, like a car on dirt track, gotta slide the turn, flat glass they are a great boat, or if the lake, river,pond you plan on using it on is only 4inches deep then its ideal, same handling as an air boat, about as smooth and quiet also. Im not posting this to upset anyone these are only MY feeling and opinions. There are folks that think boats in general are a huge waste of time and money.. they usually play golf and drive some battery powered go cart. but to each his own. Yes I could/can afford a new boat, my opinions are not based on envy, only experience and opinion.

 

[sktn77a]

Re: Yamaha jet boats- worthy?

So, what's your point, Skipper?

 

[noclutch]

Re: Yamaha jet boats- worthy?

2. Maintenance is easy simply. No bellows, gimbals, cooling water impellers, motor alignment checks, trim fluid, etc.. Change the oil and filters, change the plugs every year, grease a few linkages and two zirks and you're good. Everything is super easy to reach and there's plenty of room to work in the engine bay.

This is what I'd call significant differences. Thanks for all the input guys.
Orange TJ- sounds like you're really enjoying your boat!! Great for you! I don't really go through weeds/vegetation intentionally, don't fish, but occasionally find myself mowing over a raft of lilly pads or hyacinth at cruise speed. Rarely it will get hung up on the outdrive if I pick it up at idle.
Haulinazz- the cramped feeling is really only when anchored and passengers are milling around( and NO, a pontoon is NOT gonna happen LOL) Part of my "shrinkage" is that the aft 2' of my boat are/is a very spacious swim platform, very much like the Yamahas, just without the second tier. Regarding winterizing, in Florida that just means disconnecting the battery and putting fuel stabilizer in the tank. And waiting for a mid- january 70 something degree day for a quickie

 

[OrangeTJ]

Re: Yamaha jet boats- worthy?

I took out a customers sugar bay extreme, 12ft or so with a 240hp merc sport jet, 2001. 20 min ride, 10 in ocean,10 in flat calm river, its like new. 0 to 30-40mph in seconds,
20mph to-55 mph snaps your head, only 5-6 seconds..sick!! fun!! adrenaline rush...did that a few times.. OK now what...cons..seas were 1-2ft gentle wind, boat slapps, going with em and into them, cant hold a course, like a car on dirt track, gotta slide the turn, flat glass they are a great boat, or if the lake, river,pond you plan on using it on is only 4inches deep then its ideal, same handling as an air boat, about as smooth and quiet also.

That's interesting, and your points about the costs of new boats are well taken, but the experience with the small Sugar Sand boat is really not pertinent to the Yamaha boats the OP is actually asking about. These are 19 - 24 foot boats with 20 degree transom deadrise, 8'6" beam on the 21 and 24 footers, significant freeboard (for a bowrider/runabout type of boat), etc.