How to shut engines off from flybridge helm?

BoatingTimbo

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I've got a 1985 Carver 3227 with electronic shifters installed on both helms -- I can start the engines from the flybridge helm when selecting the station button on the electronic shifter at flybridge (with ignition on at lower helm)...but can't shut off from flybridge.

I have always started and shut off from the lower helm without issue but want to figure this out.

Is there a way i can rewire the upper helm ignition to constant 12v power and not dependent on the lower helm ignition being switched on to provide power to flybridge ignition?? will that make a difference to starting and shutting down from upper helm?

Or install a Kill Lanyard Switch on the upper helm somehow?
 

frantically relaxing

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Re: How to shut engines off from flybridge helm?

You have the start buttons so half the battle is done. First, you just need 2 simple on/off switches of any kind to mount upstairs. Key switch, pull switch, toggle, rocker, doesn't matter. Then you need to locate the 12 volt always-hot and the 12-volt ignition-on hot on each ignition switch downstairs. Assuming you can run some wiring from the lower helm to the upper helm, just connect an additional wire from the lower switches to the new switches upstairs. Then either helm's switches can be used.

That's pretty much how our houseboat is wired. I had problems with rain water getting in my upper key switches and shorting out- which means the engines start up all by themselves! So I made a switch panel with four rocker switches, two for ignition-on, and two momentary-on switches for the starters. Where they're at they haven't failed me yet in 6 years!

upperswitches.JPG
 

smokeonthewater

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Re: How to shut engines off from flybridge helm?

On my flybridge boat I had two sets of ign switched wired in parallel, so that when operating up top you just used the keys up there and left the lower station alone.... You can get 4 ign switched keyed alike..... you COULD also simply install kill switches up top too... you'd end up with your existing push to start and two new push to stop buttons....
 

ENSIGN

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Re: How to shut engines off from flybridge helm?

Your best solution would be to install three way switches on the upper and lower helms. This way the power going to the ignition circuit on the engine can be turned on or off from any position. It would work exactly like the hall lights in your house. just shorting out the coil will lead to damage of the coil or wiring.
 

BoatingTimbo

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Re: How to shut engines off from flybridge helm?

You have the start buttons so half the battle is done. First, you just need 2 simple on/off switches of any kind to mount upstairs. Key switch, pull switch, toggle, rocker, doesn't matter. Then you need to locate the 12 volt always-hot and the 12-volt ignition-on hot on each ignition switch downstairs. Assuming you can run some wiring from the lower helm to the upper helm, just connect an additional wire from the lower switches to the new switches upstairs. Then either helm's switches can be used.

That's pretty much how our houseboat is wired. I had problems with rain water getting in my upper key switches and shorting out- which means the engines start up all by themselves! So I made a switch panel with four rocker switches, two for ignition-on, and two momentary-on switches for the starters. Where they're at they haven't failed me yet in 6 years!

upperswitches.JPG


This is easy enough as wiring access thru the floor is ok. However so I am perfectly clear -- get any switch for engine shut down and wire into lower helm ignition on switches always on 12v and 12v ignition on. With ignition on you are referring to the second position on the key for accessories on correct?

This will be easy as a shut off however a lot of times I shut down one engine when slow cruising and then the warning alarm buzzes because i have to have the lower helm key left to acc on. This triggers the alarm until the engine has started. In this case I would have to run down to turn the lower helm key to off. The only way to start from flybridge is with the lower helm key in the acc on position. I guess I could disconnect the alarm?
 

sasto

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Re: How to shut engines off from flybridge helm?

I'm thinkin' you should be able to just rewire the lower helm switch. Normally there would be a purple wire connected to your ign. switch. Sounds like you may have 2 wires to yours. You may be able to remove the purple wire that goes to the FB and connect it to the pos (red) wire on the same switch.

Maybe someone better at explainging this will chime in.

Good Luck!
 

smokeonthewater

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Re: How to shut engines off from flybridge helm?

the kill switch doesn't short anything, it breaks the circuit supplying power to the ign... if you use a toggle for it as suggested by F/R, you won't have any alarm... the kill switch would have the same effect as turning off the key
 

frantically relaxing

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Re: How to shut engines off from flybridge helm?

The problem with "just" a kill switch is you have to remember to turn off the ignition switches below. Aside from possibly running the battery dead, depending on your ignition system you can burn up an ignition coil with the switch left on...

Just do like my cheesy diagram and you're good to go. (note that both diagrams are identical other than the port and starboard). Won't matter which switches you use or if they're all on at the same time. And if you turn off a switch and the engine still runs, you know the other switch is still on!

also, I have 'ignore' on the start wires because you already have start buttons. If you want to install actual ignition switches on top, just add the starter wire too.
:)

ignitions.gif
 

BoatingTimbo

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Re: How to shut engines off from flybridge helm?

What engine / drive are we talking about? I may have a copy of the factory wiring.

Powered by twin Crusader 270's (1985). I'm searching for a PDF service manual too so if you had it you would be my hero!
 

BoatingTimbo

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Re: How to shut engines off from flybridge helm?

The problem with "just" a kill switch is you have to remember to turn off the ignition switches below. Aside from possibly running the battery dead, depending on your ignition system you can burn up an ignition coil with the switch left on...

Just do like my cheesy diagram and you're good to go. (note that both diagrams are identical other than the port and starboard). Won't matter which switches you use or if they're all on at the same time. And if you turn off a switch and the engine still runs, you know the other switch is still on!

also, I have 'ignore' on the start wires because you already have start buttons. If you want to install actual ignition switches on top, just add the starter wire too.
:)

ignitions.gif

This is the same thing Frantically Relaxing suggested in the first response above... correct?? wiring an on/off switch from the lower helm ignition to a switch installed on the upper helm. This sounds like the best and easiest thing to do.

maybe to combat the problem with not being able to shut the engines off from lower helm if switches are set to on at the flybride (as BobGinCO has suggested) -- would be to install monetary push button kill switch as emergency shut off at lower helm incase the flybridge switch is left on. What do you guys think of this plan?
 
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Re: How to shut engines off from flybridge helm?

if it was my boat i would think about adding 3 push buttons for each engine (top and bottom deck). the key switchs would become master switchs then the 3 buttons labeled stop-acc-start would be installed. when you get on the boat put key in and turn on (it will no longer start the engines its just to stop honest people stealing the boat). press acc button and it will latch a relay and light up (this will also supply power to start switch). press start (unless acc relay is latched the start button will not work). engines runs. press stop and acc relay unlatch's which kills the motor.
original kill switchs are left as a back up.

copy the buttons to the top level and now you can start/stop from either level. at end off day remove key and none of the buttons will work anymore.

note: if the ignition has off-acc-on-start then thats harder as the acc push button would require 2 relays one would latch instant and the other would be a small time-delay (press acc button and acc get power but engine coil will not, hold for 2 seconds and td relay will latch giving power to engine and start switch)

if you dont understand relays ignore this as you dont want to be out at sea with a minor problem and no idea how the system works.
 

BoatingTimbo

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Re: How to shut engines off from flybridge helm?

i'm unfamiliar with relays so don't want to over complicate my life and/or be out to sea with an issue :) Thanks though. I'll wait for a simpler solution.
 

arks

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Re: How to shut engines off from flybridge helm?

I have 1985 Crusader 270's with dual helms and cable shifters.
Don't mean to snub Bubba but here's some info from the Crusader service manual.
I couldn't find anything about interfacing two switches but maybe the text and diagrams will help.
boatignitioninfo004_zps6d5fe363.jpg

boatignitioninfo_zps6297a64a.jpg

boatignitioninfo002_zpsefeee403.jpg

boatignitioninfo001_zpse0deed8e.jpg

boatignitioninfo003_zps8b2e9524.jpg
 

smokeonthewater

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Re: How to shut engines off from flybridge helm?

The problem with "just" a kill switch is you have to remember to turn off the ignition switches below. Aside from possibly running the battery dead, depending on your ignition system you can burn up an ignition coil with the switch left on...

Just do like my cheesy diagram and you're good to go. (note that both diagrams are identical other than the port and starboard). Won't matter which switches you use or if they're all on at the same time. And if you turn off a switch and the engine still runs, you know the other switch is still on!

also, I have 'ignore' on the start wires because you already have start buttons. If you want to install actual ignition switches on top, just add the starter wire too.
:)

ignitions.gif
If you were gonna do this then just toss your keyed ignition switches in the garbage... no point in requiring a key to start downstairs when just a toggle will do it upstairs....
 

BoatingTimbo

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Re: How to shut engines off from flybridge helm?

Thanks Arks. this will be helpful when i try a couple options this weekend.

I think the first easy option will be to wire the flybridge ignition to have constant on Battery Hot power the same as the lower ignition. Right now the flybridge ignition needs the lower ignition flipped to key on/accessory on to power the flybridge to start... this way i hope to be able to shut off from flybridge as well. Maybe both helms will operate to start/stop individually of each other??

second option will be installing a shut off switch mounted on flybridge wired from lower helm battery hot + key on.

Unless there's no other suggestions i'm going to test these options above this weekend. Thanks all for the help!
 

smokeonthewater

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Re: How to shut engines off from flybridge helm?

if you simply install two more keyed ign switches up top it is REALLY easy... run wires from each terminal on the lower switches to the same terminal on the upper switches... then you will ONLY operate the switches at the helm you are driving from
 

frantically relaxing

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Re: How to shut engines off from flybridge helm?

The problem with this, is that if you have the upstairs switch ON, you will not be able to turn the engine OFF from downstairs.

Well, if you COULD turn the engine off from downstairs, you're still left with switches ON upstairs!

I always DRIVE from up top, but I usually PARK from below- so what I'll do on the trip back is just go turn on the lower switches too. Then when I'm about to go down to park, I shut off the upper switches, go down and dock the boat, then shut off... no problem
 

buellwinkle

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Re: How to shut engines off from flybridge helm?

Can't you just asked Scotty to turn the engines off?
 
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