I am an anchor and line noob....

[ricohman]

After using all the junk rope that came with my old boat I would like to do it right with the new Starcraft Islander 221 that I will be bringing home as soon as the snow stops.
Anyway, I have bought a 28 lb navy style anchor and 100ft of 3/8 nylon braided anchor line with a galvanized loop. The navy style is popular around here with the muddy/weedy bottoms on our lakes but I have no idea what to use in the northern canadian shield where it is very rocky.
Is the 3/8 rope enough for my boat?
I also want proper dock lines this time around. Would 3/8 by 10 feet be suitable? I would buy two of them.
Also I need fenders. Again, I don't know what size or what is supposed to hang them. The other boat had shoe strings on the fenders.
Do I need some sort of special chain and clips to fasten the anchor to the rope?

 

[JoLin]

Re: I am an anchor and line noob....

Can't speak for the type of anchor youi need, but 3/8" line will be fine, (you oughta add some chain, tho) as will 3/8" for your dock lines. Conventional wisdom for small-midsize boats recommends fender sizing at 1" in diameter for every 3' of boat length. If that boat is 22' you'll want 7 or 8 inchers. Might even be overkill for you, as your boat is very light for its size.

 

[dsiekman]

Re: I am an anchor and line noob....

+1 on adding chain to the anchor rode, especially with a muddy bottom. Length of anchor rode depends a lot on the depth in which you will be boating. 3/8" is probably about right.

Dock lines depend on your slip, where else you may plan to tie up, and what your weather and tides do. If you are on a quiet lake with a private dock, two lines may do it. I'm in a protected cove in a tidal area in a private slip and use six. During tropical storms and hurricanes I add a few more. Again, length will depend on your setup. I typically keep an additional set of six on the boat incase we are at a public dock (bar) or decide to tie up with someone. They also come in really handy if you ever have to tow someone in or be towed in.

 

[ricohman]

Re: I am an anchor and line noob....

Ok. So some 7 or 8 inch fenders (2 or 3?) and 4 feet of chain with some clips.
The dock line seems to be sold in different lengths, 10, 15 or 20 feet. I don't plan on being at the dock much but if I visit my brother or a buddy the boat would end up being tied to the private dock overnight.

 

[coastalrichard]

Re: I am an anchor and line noob....

Ricohman...your anchor weight is more than ample; you should have about half your boat length in chain (5/16"), followed by (IMHO) 1/2" to 5/8" anchor line (I prefer braided). Have enough line on board to provide a 7:1 scope rode. If you are referring to a fluke anchor as a navy anchor, then you will be fine in the mud you're encountering. The chain is the important part as it lays flat in front of the anchor allowing the flukes to dig into the bottom (without chain the rope wants to float the anchor toward the surface). Good Luck!

 

[Fireman431]

Re: I am an anchor and line noob....

Just a little more info on your situation. The fender size mentioned is about correct. Go with the 6"-8" fender. You can adjust the amount of air in them as necessary. The smaller ones are easier to store, but don't offer the protection necesary when a decent wake comes by and starts rocking the boat. Aside from that, 4" fenders on a 20'+ boat just looks silly.

The twisted (not braided) rope is correct for the anchoring, as it is the only style that offer the stretch necessary for the boat to remain in place. Woven/braided rode won't stretch and every time the boat is bounced in place by whatever force, the anchor will pop up.

Many specialized manuals tell you that you need a length of chain equal to the length of the boat to properly hold the anchor chank to the floor of the river bed. This is true, depending on what size anchor chain you are using. When I was running 20' boats, I always had 15'-20' of galvanized 5/8" chain and never had an issue with anchors. I'd rather have a few more feet of chain than constantly having to deal with anchor slippage issues. You base your need on your water conditions, but I, personally, wouldn't go with less than 15'. The 7:1 scope mentioned is correct, but that's based on tidal and drift conditions and for overnight mooring. Is low tide areas or without currents (lakes and such), you can probably get away with 4:1 scope, but make sure you have enough rode that you can adjust it to 7:1 if you need to.

As far as your dock lines, they should be close to the boat length. 10' lines are not long enough. You need to have 20' lines. If you have shorter ones, you can get by with them for bow and stern (maybe), but 20' allows you to create spring lines when needed to keep the boat stationary, and that's what they are there for. The shortest line I have is 20'. Take a 10' line out of the bag and tie up the bow. You'll see how short 10' truly is.

 

[ricohman]

Re: I am an anchor and line noob....

Ricohman...your anchor weight is more than ample; you should have about half your boat length in chain (5/16"), followed by (IMHO) 1/2" to 5/8" anchor line (I prefer braided). Have enough line on board to provide a 7:1 scope rode. If you are referring to a fluke anchor as a navy anchor, then you will be fine in the mud you're encountering. The chain is the important part as it lays flat in front of the anchor allowing the flukes to dig into the bottom (without chain the rope wants to float the anchor toward the surface). Good Luck!

This is the anchor I bought.
http://www.princessauto.com/hlr-system/WebPhotos/82/827/8271/8271389.jpg

I choose it because my old boat had one and my brother told me they work well in the weeds and mud in our local lakes and nearly every boat I've been on has one.
I read last night the danforth style is superior? But how will it do in the large rocks up north or a loose gravel bottom? Maybe I need two anchors.
I will buy the 20 ft dock lines as recommended by fireman, but you feel the 3/8 braided rope may not be adequate?

 

[Fireman431]

Re: I am an anchor and line noob....

Please reread: Braided rope is NOT anchor rope. You want 3 strand twisted rope because it stretches...the woven/braided do not stretch! Braided/woven is used for mooring lines, tow lines, and utility lines.

Twisted rope (3/8") has a working tensile strength of 3,700 lbs. More than enough to hold your boat. Fully afloat, your boat only weighs in about 600 lbs, depending on load. That's why it's easy to push around in the water.

Twisted rope:


Braided rope:


Woven rope:

 

[Davem3]

Re: I am an anchor and line noob....

just remember my famously expensive lesson, MAKE sure the line is ATTACHED to the anchorBEFORE you throw it out there:facepalm:

see, you are already one step ahead of me, and i agree, i use 100 feet of twisted rope, attached to 15 feet of chain, then the anchor, it catches the bottom easier that way

oh, and i use a danforth anchor as well, it is very versatile, works well in mud, sand and rock

 

[ricohman]

Re: I am an anchor and line noob....

Please reread: Braided rope is NOT anchor rope. You want 3 strand twisted rope because it stretches...the woven/braided do not stretch! Braided/woven is used for mooring lines, tow lines, and utility lines.

Twisted rope (3/8") has a working tensile strength of 3,700 lbs. More than enough to hold your boat. Fully afloat, your boat only weighs in about 600 lbs, depending on load. That's why it's easy to push around in the water.

Twisted rope:
View attachment 145065

Braided rope:
View attachment 145064

Woven rope:
View attachment 145066

Now I am really confused. The 100 ft spool of anchor rope is braided.
http://www.princessauto.com/pal/pro...e/3/8-in.-x-100-ft-Double-Braided-Anchor-Line
Should I return this?
I bought some 1/4 and 5/16 chain and some anchor clevis. This anchor and chain is going to weigh over 35lbs. Maybe I should return the lot and find a danforth and the other kind of rope.

 

[Thalasso]

Re: I am an anchor and line noob....

Ricohman:
What type of waters are you going to be anchoring in. Lakes or swift water, mild current? If it is just lakes i wouldn't worry about chain
Well, now that everyone has reccomended all this chain.Being a previous Starcraft Islander owner i don't recolect them coming with a windlass. I know mine didn't. That is going to get old, pulling all that chain.

 

[1216bandit]

Re: I am an anchor and line noob....

I agree with Thalasso, all my boating is on the Great Lakes and I have never had any problems anchoring without chain. As far as docking lines, I have 20' of bow line that I tie off to the middle cleat while under way, and 15' of line for the stern which works out just great for me

 

[ricohman]

Re: I am an anchor and line noob....

The local lakes are mud bottom with weeds. And I would be anchoring in anywhere from 12-50ft of water. The northern lakes are massive, deep and rocky.
I didn't like anchoring in deeper water with my old boat as the anchor didn't seem to hold. But now that I have been reading about scope it makes sense why it didn't work.
I am disappointed I seem to have bought all the wrong equipment so I may end up taking it all back and start again.
Throwing anchor in an Islander seemss like a lot of work. I presume I take the anchor out through the forward hatch and attach the line to the chain?
I have seen an Islander with a power windlass and although it looked kind of funny the owner though it was the best thing he ever added to the boat.

 

[Fireman431]

Re: I am an anchor and line noob....

Everyone's advice here (mine included), is based on what they read, what they know or think they know, and what works for them. However, read the info based on the facts derived from the professionals. Start with this link from the Fortress anchor people. Also read Chapmans Boat Handling and Basic Seamanship. Those are the facts from the people that put in thousands of hours in research and development. However, I would never throw an anchor on a regular basis without chain attached.

http://www.fortressanchors.com/safe_anchoring.html

 

[likalar]

Re: I am an anchor and line noob....

You mentioned anchoring in water up to 50' deep. As long as you're maybe returning the anchor line, you'll need a longer one for water that deep. As stated above, consider the 7:1 scope.

Larry

 

[Thalasso]

Re: I am an anchor and line noob....

Everyone's advice here (mine included), is based on what they read, what they know or think they know, and what works for them. However, read the info based on the facts derived from the professionals. Start with this link from the Fortress anchor people. Also read Chapmans Boat Handling and Basic Seamanship. Those are the facts from the people that put in thousands of hours in research and development. However, I would never throw an anchor on a regular basis without chain attached.

http://www.fortressanchors.com/safe_anchoring.html

First paragraph of the article you refer to say's Safe Anchoring Guide

1. Determine Your Holding Requirements.
Be sure that your anchor can give the performance you need. A “Lunch Hook” should be able to hold your boat in a 15 knot breeze. A main, or “Working Anchor” should hold up to 30 knots of wind. A “Storm Anchor” is for winds up to 42 knots. Remember that as the wind speed doubles, the holding requirement quadruples!

30 Knots = 34.6 MPH
40 Knots = 46.1 MPH He better be long gone before that happens. That tinny isn't going to like that

With that Islander and like i said before because i owned one he isn't going to be out in that kind of weather. He states that the bottom is 12 to 50 ft and weeds. It's not the ocean or the Gulf. Heck you can use mushroom anchors in the St Lawrance.I used to fish Erie and never had the need for an anchor even though i had one.

 

[Thalasso]

Re: I am an anchor and line noob....

Please reread: Braided rope is NOT anchor rope. You want 3 strand twisted rope because it stretches...the woven/braided do not stretch! Braided/woven is used for mooring lines, tow lines, and utility lines.

Twisted rope (3/8") has a working tensile strength of 3,700 lbs. More than enough to hold your boat. Fully afloat, your boat only weighs in about 600 lbs, depending on load. That's why it's easy to push around in the water.

Twisted rope:
View attachment 145065

Braided rope:
View attachment 145064

Woven rope:
View attachment 145066

That boat and motor weighs in around 3900 lbs.(DRY) Don't know what boat your thinking of. www.starcraftmarine.com

 

[viper1]

Re: I am an anchor and line noob....

Ive have used several types on Lake Erie with my 20 ft boats. I use 150 foot of rope with a 6 ft chain/plastic coated with a danford anchor. Seems to work best in mud and weeds, Also holds pretty well in rocks. I use three dock lines one on the bow eve to hold the boat towards the front of dock. The other two crossed from two cleats front and back to allow boat to move with waves but not loose postion in dock.

 

[Fireman431]

Re: I am an anchor and line noob....

That tinny isn't going to like that...

What "tinny"? A Starcraft Islander 221 is a 22' fiberglass boat (with a cuddy, I believe).

That boat and motor weighs in around 3900 lbs.(DRY) Don't know what boat your thinking of.

I know that. I said it was around 600 lbs (give or take, depending on load) floating. That's the remaining bouyant weight of the boat, after the displacement of the water. That is why a single person can easily push around a floating object while it is in the water, because the remaining bouyance of a given object is nowhere near as heavy as the object on land. My boat is 22,000 lbs. Why can I move it around by hand? Because it's only 1,200+ lbs floating. That's the pull on the anchor line at any given time (not including wakes, waves, or other 'shock' load). This is why I said that the tensile strength of the 3/8" twisted rope should be more than sufficient to hold his boat in place.

 

[ricohman]

Re: I am an anchor and line noob....

What "tinny"? A Starcraft Islander 221 is a 22' fiberglass boat (with a cuddy, I believe).



I know that. I said it was around 600 lbs (give or take, depending on load) floating. That's the remaining bouyant weight of the boat, after the displacement of the water. That is why a single person can easily push around a floating object while it is in the water, because the remaining bouyance of a given object is nowhere near as heavy as the object on land. My boat is 22,000 lbs. Why can I move it around by hand? Because it's only 1,200+ lbs floating. That's the pull on the anchor line at any given time (not including wakes, waves, or other 'shock' load). This is why I said that the tensile strength of the 3/8" twisted rope should be more than sufficient to hold his boat in place.

My boat is aluminum so its a "tinny"
I am going to start over. The only good thing to come of this mess is that I have two nice pieces of chain. Good thing I never bought those 10 foot dock lines.
I need 100+ of twisted rope. I am going to keep the anchor. It never hurts to have a spare and I'd like to try it out.