Right size windlass to buy..?

Jay Woods

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I have a 27' Bayliner Ciera Cabin Cruiser, and It has a front bow drop-anchor that is 100% manual. I find it very time confusing and annoying when I have to go all the way to the front of the boat and let down and pull up the anchor each time we move around (which can be a lot in a quickly moving river). I was thinking of installing a windlass over the current spot where it's manually installed (there seems to be a spot for it). I don't know ANYTHING about these things, and what all can support the weight of my anchor, or how much chain/rope ratio I should have. Also, the brand.. no clue what is worth it, and what's not. I currently have an anchor, it weighs about 20lbs or so.. any advice or ideas would be great. I have a Thanks!
 

Fireman431

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Re: Right size windlass to buy..?

Start here:

http://www.goodwindlass.com/FAQ/faq.htm

http://www.maxwellmarine.com/gen_which_winch.php


Not that the info that you get here won't be correct, but some of it will be unintentionally misleading ("I have always..."; "You don't ever need..."; "My father told me...")
Get the information from the professionals that have spent hundreds of thousands of dollars and man hours in research and development determining the best designs for this piece of potentially life saving equipment and the best anchor for which bottom conditions. (some people on here still swear by cinder blocks as anchors)... Then get on here and ask how people like their XXX brand of windlass.
 

Mischief Managed

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Re: Right size windlass to buy..?

The smallest windlasses in any manufacturer's lineup will be fine on a 27' boat.
 

Jay Woods

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Re: Right size windlass to buy..?

does it matter the size and weight of the anchor? .. even though it's only 27'
 

Mischief Managed

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Re: Right size windlass to buy..?

does it matter the size and weight of the anchor? .. even though it's only 27'

They don't make windlasses rated for boats smaller than 30 feet or so, so the smallest available is going to be fine. (smaller boats typically use winches that store the rode on a spool). Your 20 lb anchor won't tax any available windlass, especially since you very likely have a rope/chain anchor rode. The smallest windlasses (not winches) I'm aware of have at least 500 lbs of pull.

I am not terribly impressed with my Powerwinch 31 on my 25 foot boat. It is plenty big enough for the boat, but the rode jumps the gypsy a lot on retrieve, the it struggles with the rope to chain splice, and the switch failed after only 7 years of fairly light use. I have no experience with any other brands though, so I can't way they'd be better.

You will need very specific chain and rope with windlass. Mine requires Hi-test 1/4" chain and 1/2" rope. I can't use BB or proof coil chain because the spacing on the gypsy is made for high-test only. You will also need a rope/chain splice between the chain and the rope in your rode. An anchor swivel is also a good idea to prevent the chain from jamming between the gypsy and the control arm.
 

Jay Woods

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Re: Right size windlass to buy..?

They don't make windlasses rated for boats smaller than 30 feet or so, so the smallest available is going to be fine. (smaller boats typically use winches that store the rode on a spool). Your 20 lb anchor won't tax any available windlass, especially since you very likely have a rope/chain anchor rode. The smallest windlasses (not winches) I'm aware of have at least 500 lbs of pull.

I am not terribly impressed with my Powerwinch 31 on my 25 foot boat. It is plenty big enough for the boat, but the rode jumps the gypsy a lot on retrieve, the it struggles with the rope to chain splice, and the switch failed after only 7 years of fairly light use. I have no experience with any other brands though, so I can't way they'd be better.

You will need very specific chain and rope with windlass. Mine requires Hi-test 1/4" chain and 1/2" rope. I can't use BB or proof coil chain because the spacing on the gypsy is made for high-test only. You will also need a rope/chain splice between the chain and the rope in your rode. An anchor swivel is also a good idea to prevent the chain from jamming between the gypsy and the control arm.

I'll have to go out and measure all this before I can update and let you know. I think you're right.. it seems every windlass I've looked at has at least a 500lb pull, and that should be more than enough. You say anchor swivel.. something like this? http://www.jmsonline.net/seadog-stainless-anchor-swivel-516-sdg-182612.htm

Right now, all I have is a flat long piece where the anchor is pulled up on, and rests. The corners of the anchor catch the end of the flat long piece, and hold the anchor in place while I can make the rope and chain taught and tie it off.

Do you possibly have a picture of what you're talking about? I would imagine that if you get it tangled up, it could seriously mess up your windlass. I don't even know how the windlass knows when to stop.. I assume that I manually stop/start it. I've never used one before, this is all new to me.
 

JoLin

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Re: Right size windlass to buy..?

Yes, that's the swivel, and having one helps.

You need to do some research, first on the difference between a winch and a windlass. An anchor winch works on the same principle as a trailer winch. The winch sits on the bow and the anchor line winds on and off a 'drum'.

A windlass is a different animal. The windlass' gypsy (instead of a drum) leads the anchor rode in and out of a hole in the foredeck. The rode itself falls into your line storage locker in the bow. A windlass will be harder to install, requires manufacturer-specified anchor rope and chain; and your rope needs to be spliced directly to the chain (no shackle allowed between rope and chain). It is, however, the predominant choice for boats in our size range.

If you decide you want a windlass, then you need to decide whether you want a horizontal or vertical gypsy. A vertical windlass install is cleaner looking- the motor is bolted to the underside of the deck with only the gypsy sticking up above deck.

With either windlass type, you need to insure that there's enough space in the foredeck of the boat for the anchor rode to 'fall into'. A windlass won't work unless the falling line has enough of a drop to keep pulling itself down. There's usually a minimum of about 18" of free-fall space required. I'd imagine your boat had a windlass option available when it was new, so probably won't be an issue.

Finally, you have a choice of 'free fall' or 'power out' windlasses. A free-fall windlass allows the anchor rode to pay out without you having to hold the 'down' button. Mine is a 'power out' type that requires me to hold the down button continuously while paying out the rode. It's the only kind I've ever used, so I can't speak to which type is 'better'

It's boat show season. I'd take a close look at how boats are rigged up. In the 27' size class I think you'll find more windlasses than winches.

Good luck!
 

PCUK

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Sep 22, 2011
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Re: Right size windlass to buy..?

The italian 'Quick' windlasses are good and reasonably priced. You will need the correct calibrated chain to match the windlass gypsy otherwise the chain will constantly jump off. As you already have a manual windlass the chain already be calibrated so you will need a gypsy on your new windlass to match your chain. Take a length with you to the store and they should be able to tell you which pattern chain you have. Lewmar and Lofrans are two standard patterns. For your size of boat I would say use either 6mm or 8mm (sorry, I mean 1/4 or 5/16) chain depending on how serious your anchoring has to be.
 

Fireman431

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Re: Right size windlass to buy..?

When you're ready to pull the plug and get the windlass I STRONGLY suggest you look into an anchor ball as well. Windlasses are meant to be used a certain way and depending on the depth of the water, can overheat in a relatively short period of time. Use the boats engine to pull you over top of the anchor, not the pull of the windlass. Always have the engine running when using the windlass. When at anchor, use a safety chain or hook to hold the anchor rode, not the windlass brake. Never reverse rotation while the anchor is in freefall or downward motion. Little things like that are touched on briefly in the manual but most are learned by the owner, sometimes at their expense.

I had a 21' Angler center console fishing boat and had a Sportfisher 450 freefall windlass. Worked great and relatively small. It's a top mounted unit that you mount directly over your anchor locker. Keep reading the experts recommendations on what size unit and what anchor weight and configuration you need for your bottom conditions. As far as the chain portion, they specify what chain and what type of rode will run on the spindle. The chain length should be appropriate to the length of your boat. With a 24' boat, your chain should be in the 18'-24' range, depending on the size of chain you use (which will be determined by the windlass you buy). Also, if you don't know how, you will need to find someone who can backsplice rope to itself through a chain link. A rope thimble won't go thru a windlass gypsy.
 

Jay Woods

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Dec 27, 2011
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Re: Right size windlass to buy..?

hey guys, I know it's been a while since anyone has replied or commented on this topic, but I wanted to dig it back up again. Today, I ordered a Lewmar V700, link here:http://www.lewmar.com/products.asp?id=8335&lid=25802

I only paid $590+shipping for it, and after a lot of research, I decided to go with the vertical instead of the horizontal.

Now, I'm going to attach some pics of the project for my boat.

windlass.jpg

This pic above is a at-a-glance of the whole area. This gives you an idea of how I'm going to center it

windlass2.jpg

This pic shows where I have to cut a hole a little bigger to fit the windlass (I assume), you'll notice the hole already there is not quite centered.. I'll most likely have to cut out a little bigger of a hole in order to make it more centered.. thoughts?

windlass1.jpg

Here in this pic, you will notice that the roller is gone (someone ghetto-fied this) and it's just a bar.. this really messed up the front lip of the boat where the anchor slammed up and took some gashes out of the hull. I'll have to get that fixed. Is this a good recommended anchor for a windlass? or should I go with something like a delta?

Also, should I go ahead and replace the whole roller assembly? It looks like the original, and it's bent in a few spots.. also on the rollers, should I get one that tilts? if so, maybe a vertical windlass wasn't a good idea. If I do get a tilting one, I will have to get another piece to hold the line/chain down so it doesn't tilt up once the anchor goes in... I know a vertical windlass can't pull at that elevated angle, and only at the direct in front angle..

This pics below are what I'm referring to:

winch_vertfinal.jpg

windlasswithpivotingroller.gif

Please take a look at all this, and help me out if you can. Also.. in the most recent reply before this post, the last sentence that Fireman431 said was that the rope thimble won't go through the windlass gypsy? If I'm correct, that's the piece that connects the rope and chain together? It looks like a teardrop shape piece with the rope wrapped around it. (Correct me if I'm wrong) but how do I fit that through the gypsy?

Anyways, thanks guys for the future responses, and I look forward to hearing from you.
 

UncleWillie

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Re: Right size windlass to buy..?

... in the most recent reply before this post, the last sentence that Fireman431 said was that the rope thimble won't go through the windlass gypsy? If I'm correct, that's the piece that connects the rope and chain together? It looks like a teardrop shape piece with the rope wrapped around it. (Correct me if I'm wrong) but how do I fit that through the gypsy?

This is a job for a Chain Splice! :D

http://www.animatedknots.com/chains...ge=LogoGrog.jpg&Website=www.animatedknots.com
 

Fireman431

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Re: Right size windlass to buy..?

Thanks! Do most people use that method when using a windlass?

Yes. As I mentioned, a thimble will NOT go thru a gypsy. It's termed a "backsplice" as the rode goes thru the link and back into itself. When you feed the rode and chain thru the windlass and into the anchor locker, make sure you secure the trailing end of the rope to something inside the locker. If not, you run the risk of squirting out your entire rode and watch it drift away!

Please, please, please read and carefully understand the operation and safety issues on your windlass (especially the maintenance). Since you are now removing the manual operation out of the picture, you have no way of deploying the anchor in an emergency if the engine fails and your windlass isn't up to snuff.

On the other hand, they sure are a back saver!!
 

cyclops2

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Re: Right size windlass to buy..?

Fireman is totally correct about your primary powered anchor.

SOO If you can find the space somewhere for a BACKUP / emergency line / chain & anchor. Do it. They can be in 3 different locations. Cliff climber " threaded links" ?? prefastened to anchor / chain / rope are all you need, in a do or die / severe emergency. Tie the rope to the Winlass drum first. Then chain. Then anchor.
Anchor should be a anchor style that grabs somewhat on any type of bottom. Since you can not know when the emergency will strike. Make it HEAVY. But not too heavy on a wet, windy & heaving deck.

I have a 40 pound Navy on my 185 SSI with 200' of Nylon. Strictly for a MAYDAY situation in the St. Lawrence river.
Long Nylon lines have a ton of stretch in 4' waves. I like that feeling. I tested the setup in 4' waves. SMOOTH cushioning of the wave shocks.
 

Thalasso

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Re: Right size windlass to buy..?

Also, should I go ahead and replace the whole roller assembly? It looks like the original, and it's bent in a few spots.. also on the rollers, should I get one that tilts? if so, maybe a vertical windlass wasn't a good idea. If I do get a tilting one, I will have to get another piece to hold the line/chain down so it doesn't tilt up once the anchor goes in... I know a vertical windlass can't pull at that elevated angle, and only at the direct in front angle.. "Quote"

Straighten out the one you have and install a roller. The roller and safety latch is the only thing missing. Those pulpits aren't cheap
 

Fireman431

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Re: Right size windlass to buy..?

Also, should I go ahead and replace the whole roller assembly? It looks like the original, and it's bent in a few spots.. also on the rollers, should I get one that tilts? if so, maybe a vertical windlass wasn't a good idea. If I do get a tilting one, I will have to get another piece to hold the line/chain down so it doesn't tilt up once the anchor goes in... I know a vertical windlass can't pull at that elevated angle, and only at the direct in front angle.. "Quote"

Straighten out the one you have and install a roller. The roller and safety latch is the only thing missing. Those pulpits aren't cheap

If you are going to do the job, do it right. Replace or repair anything that doesn't work as it should. This isn't a stereo or a cooler support, it's a mandatory piece of safety equipment.

Regarding the manual operation of the windlass, see how difficult it is to open up the Pawl on the gypsy and manually remove the line in case you have to deploy without any power. There should always be a way to let the anchor go if needed.

This months BOATING magazine has an article of how to install a windlass:

http://www.boatingmag.com/maintenance/diy%20projects/how-install-electric-windlass

...and the proper use of an anchor ball:

http://www.boatingmag.com/skills/seamanship/using-anchor-ball
 

Thalasso

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Re: Right size windlass to buy..?

If you are going to do the job, do it right. Replace or repair anything that doesn't work as it should. This isn't a stereo or a cooler support, it's a mandatory piece of safety equipment.

Regarding the manual operation of the windlass, see how difficult it is to open up the Pawl on the gypsy and manually remove the line in case you have to deploy without any power. There should always be a way to let the anchor go if needed.

This months BOATING magazine has an article of how to install a windlass:

http://www.boatingmag.com/maintenance/diy%20projects/how-install-electric-windlass

...and the proper use of an anchor ball:

http://www.boatingmag.com/skills/seamanship/using-anchor-ball

If i read this right, you are somewhat suggesting that he shouldn't straighten and or replace roller versus buying a new pulpit?
What is wrong with straighting the pulpit and adding the missing roller and chain keeper? There is nothing unsafe about this. Would you replace your pulpit if the roller wore out or broke. I doubt it.
 

Fireman431

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Re: Right size windlass to buy..?

If i read this right, you are somewhat suggesting that he shouldn't straighten and or replace roller versus buying a new pulpit?
What is wrong with straighting the pulpit and adding the missing roller and chain keeper? There is nothing unsafe about this. Would you replace your pulpit if the roller wore out or broke. I doubt it.


Thalasso...please reread...I said replace OR repair anything that doesn't work right. If his roller assembly is bent, there's absolutely nothing wrong with straightening it out, as long as it works like it's supposed to when he's done.
 

Thalasso

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Re: Right size windlass to buy..?

Thalasso...please reread...I said replace OR repair anything that doesn't work right. If his roller assembly is bent, there's absolutely nothing wrong with straightening it out, as long as it works like it's supposed to when he's done.

Point taken.
 

Jay Woods

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Re: Right size windlass to buy..?

Thalasso...please reread...I said replace OR repair anything that doesn't work right. If his roller assembly is bent, there's absolutely nothing wrong with straightening it out, as long as it works like it's supposed to when he's done.

I decided to just add the rubber roller, and leave everything else the same. I was also told to use a laser guide when installing the windlass to make sure it's dead-on center. I've heard that it will never reel right if it's slightly off-center. I also replaced my regular 18lb anchor with a new Lewmar delta 22lb anchor. I ordered it today, only paid $163 shipped.. not a bad deal! I will post pics during & after! I should be getting the windlass today in the mail, then working on it this weekend, and possibly finishing up next week!
 
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