Donzi & Baja

gtochris

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I was disappointed to go on both websites last night and see Donzi only has the 3 classic models listed, nothing else. Baja simply had a few of the Outlaws listed.
I know the performance market has fallen out (unfortunately) in the last decade. What is the future for these two classic brands?

Wellcraft has long stopped producing anything but a fishing boat. We get complements on ours every trip. Nothing like it on the market currently.
 

Scott Danforth

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there is a parent company to Donzi, Baja, Pro-Line and Fountain - Custom Marine Group.

Fountain is still the performance boat of the group there.

the pure performance boats still exist, Nor-tech, Fountain, Cigarette, Formula, MTI, Daves Custom, Howards custom, outer limits, DCB, Hustler, Eliminator, etc.
 

tpenfield

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Probably not the brightest future for these brands that one could hope for . . . Changing market preferences I guess. Sure wish I could get the cockpit seating capacity of my current boat with the offshore wave handling capability of the performance boats.
 

ahicks

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Going fast has always been expensive, but it seems to me like it's now become pretty difficult to justify the bang received vs. bucks spent with a new boat - that's primary purpose is to go fast....
 

Lowlysubaruguy

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When I purchased my Wellcraft 262 sportsman the salesman told me across the board the trend for boats bigger than 24 is turning to wider and longer speed and style are taking a back seat to handling and comfort. Don Johnson will be chasing drug dealers in a yacht in the sequal.
 

Scott Danforth

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the gentleman's speed boat is transitioning to hyper-performance go-fast boats with well over 4500hp (not a typo - 3 1650 mercury racing motors)

yachts are hitting 65 knots

Don Jonson's new yacht?

520px-Destriero.jpg
 

gtochris

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Probably not the brightest future for these brands that one could hope for . . . Changing market preferences I guess. Sure wish I could get the cockpit seating capacity of my current boat with the offshore wave handling capability of the performance boats.


I think you are as close as possible to that ideal boat.

Seems on the recreational front, if it's not an average bowrider, the big money is spent on Tri-toons and wakeboats that are over $100K. Cuddy Cabins also went away along with pocket cruisers. I/O horsepower seems to have become very expensive to achieve, Our 20' Excalibur had 18 power options available, now it seems many I/O boats are pushing the new V6 configuration well into the 24' range and the optional small blocks are several thousand to 10K dollars rather a few hundred.

I remember growing up with the docks full of Scarabs, Nova's, Formula's, Donzi's. My head turns anytime I see a well kept or clean one running down the lake.
 

tpenfield

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What gets me is that you can have a 26 foot go-fast boat that seats 6 people . . . or you can have a 35 foot go-fast boat . . . and it seats 6 people :eek:
 

gtochris

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What gets me is that you can have a 26 foot go-fast boat that seats 6 people . . . or you can have a 35 foot go-fast boat . . . and it seats 6 people :eek:


Very true.
Two of our friends were selling performance boats in the last few years and we considered both: One was a Baja Outlaw 20', completely cramped cockpit for anchoring/ cove time. The other was a 22' Donzi with a slightly bigger cockpit but 6 person limit (don't know why it was so low).
We are much more a fan of the bowrider for our usage.
 

porscheguy

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HP in general is getting expensive. I/Os are ridiculous considering most are designs that have been around for decades. A mercruiser 5.7 is based on the truck engine introduced in 1996. An engine that can bought for $2K which means mercury pays a lot less. The FI systems are nothing special. The transom assemblies and outdrives date back decades. An alpha drive costs almost $3k. A bravo is almost $6K. Transom assemblies are $2200-2500 for either. A 5.7 power package costs $14k-$15k. A 377/bravo is close to $20k. What does that do the prices of the boats they?re installed in?

Then there?s issues like weight, fuel economy, noise, and maintenance. Although the repair parts on I/Os aren?t too bad price wise, replacing a starter on a SBC in a twin engine m, cabin cruiser application with the engines installed below the deck and you spend the day standing on you head in a greasy, hot bilge that?s always wet. A 250verado offers the same speeds as a 377 bravo, but at less than half the weight. Then there?s noise and mileage. The verado beats the 377 hands down. The verado costs $19k and change.

The industry has also come to realize that cabin space on most boats is wasted space. How many people really do overnights on a 26? cabin cruiser? Damn few. Most lack generators and battery power only goes so far. I see countless examples of these things at the marina that look like they?ve sat unused for years because they were bought by people who stepped up from open bow runabouts, who quickly realized that extra 4?-6? of hull was a lot more cumbersome, thirsty, and difficult to maintain. And no one wants to sit inside when spending a day on the water.

A lot of open bow runabouts don?t have a good ride, and when the lakes and rivers get busy, the chop goes up, and the boat kicks your ass. That started in the mid to late 80s when the builders went with lower deadrise designs and lighter weights. The purpose was to improve acceleration and top speed. Many highly efficient hulls were developed then, but many don?t ride very well. Look at boat literature from the early 80s. Look at the hull shapes. We had a wellcraft 196 sunhatch when I was a kid. The hull running surface on that thing looks like something you?d see on a modern CC(only the old wellcraft may have had more deadrise.). We got caught in a storm one day. I don?t remember much about it but my parents said it was terrifying, and I do remember sitting in the cuddy and lots of water pouring in. This was due to waves breaking over the bow. But I don?t remember ever being tossed around. This was a ?19 runabout. Find one that can do that today.

The CC has replaced many of these older boats as the new jack of all trades. In recent years their lists of creature comforts have grown considerably. Their open design and bow seating options allow them to do more than job. They can fish, or they can park on a sandbar with the family. Inside the console you?ve got enough space for one person to change their clothes or take a leak. And that?s all they need. The helm on a brand new boat is a large expanse of flat fiberglass that allows the owner to add electronics as he sees fit. Their hull shapes cut through waves and chop, offering a much improved ride. There?s tremendous freeboard at the bow which adds a sense of security to the passengers. The modern CC is to boating what SUVs are to cars and trucks. There?s a reason why that market segment is so hot now.
 

porscheguy

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CMG seems to have plans for Fountain. They were at Annapolis this year. The plans for fountain seem to revolve around CCs. Even before their bankruptcy CCs made up 65% of their sales by 2008.

They?re not doing much with donzi. Just the classic line. And those boats are about as pointless as it gets. If they were cheap they?d sell. But a sweet 16 has a base price around $50K. A 22 starts at $80k. They could try doing the same as cigarette and building high end custom stuff.

Last I heard, CMG was trying to spin off/sell Pro Line.

As for Baja, who knows?
 

ahicks

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A note for the uninitiated - another point to consider regarding the deep-v boats. On idle and low cruise, they hunt. They are not directionaly stable and require constant steering input from the captain. While that's not a big deal at first, after a while it's a PIA as it forces complete attention to maintain direction. Eventually, it will NOT be your first choice to take when out for an evening glass of wine....

Yes, I'm an old fart that's been there, done that, and while I still find them a thrill to watch, I do not miss the ones I had.
 

gtochris

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HP in general is getting expensive. I/Os are ridiculous considering most are designs that have been around for decades. A mercruiser 5.7 is based on the truck engine introduced in 1996. An engine that can bought for $2K which means mercury pays a lot less. The FI systems are nothing special. The transom assemblies and outdrives date back decades. An alpha drive costs almost $3k. A bravo is almost $6K. Transom assemblies are $2200-2500 for either. A 5.7 power package costs $14k-$15k. A 377/bravo is close to $20k. What does that do the prices of the boats they’re installed in?

The modern CC is to boating what SUVs are to cars and trucks. There’s a reason why that market segment is so hot now.

I have to agree, a decade ago when building a boat online, getting more power wasn't a premium price. Now it's several thousands just to go from the 4.5L V6 to the 300hp 6.2L. I'm old school and glad I don't have the cats or new engine block nor many electronics.

While not a fishing guy, I have started to take an interest in CC's also. If we ever move to the salt water that will likely be our pick.
 

porscheguy

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A note for the uninitiated - another point to consider regarding the deep-v boats. On idle and low cruise, they hunt. They are not directionaly stable and require constant steering input from the captain. While that's not a big deal at first, after a while it's a PIA as it forces complete attention to maintain direction. Eventually, it will NOT be your first choice to take when out for an evening glass of wine....

Yes, I'm an old fart that's been there, done that, and while I still find them a thrill to watch, I do not miss the ones I had.
It?s almost more work to run at trawling speeds that it is to run at WOT. Especially if you have a single engine and prop and the torque ever tire comes into play. Passengers who want to go for a leisurely cruise never seem to want to understand this.
 

Old Ironmaker

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There is a 80's era 25' or so Donzi go fast boat complete with the Sonny Crocket Miami Vice hot neon graphics from the 80's in a driveway of a rather small house in the village near us. It's been for sale for a few years and I'm told he's asking for 12K CDN now. The seller started at $25,000.00 according to the scuttlebutt. How much would that have sold for when new?

Johnny D
 
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3rdtimesthecharm

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A note for the uninitiated - another point to consider regarding the deep-v boats. On idle and low cruise, they hunt. They are not directionaly stable and require constant steering input from the captain. While that's not a big deal at first, after a while it's a PIA as it forces complete attention to maintain direction. Eventually, it will NOT be your first choice to take when out for an evening glass of wine....

Yes, I'm an old fart that's been there, done that, and while I still find them a thrill to watch, I do not miss the ones I had.

I hear ya`. I had a Checkmate and 3 Baja`s. They were fun but I don't miss them. When gas hit $4 a gallon and I figured it cost a $1 a mile to run my 275,It suddenly wasn`t that much fun anymore. Not to mention I got tired of crawling over the nose of it.
 

gtochris

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It’s almost more work to run at trawling speeds that it is to run at WOT. Especially if you have a single engine and prop and the torque ever tire comes into play. Passengers who want to go for a leisurely cruise never seem to want to understand this.

I feel it's something you get use to, I have a single prop and this boat definitely wonders when going slow however I've just been accustomed to giving small corrections. My mom drove for the first time in a few years and it was her first complaint.
 

gtochris

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I don't think cost is fully to blame, I see plenty of brand new 100K Wakeboard boats and pontoons going around with young drivers every summer.
 
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QBhoy

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Get yourself a good Campion Chase ! Mega machines that will embarrass most baja đź‘Ť
 
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