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  • Sea worthy bow rider

    Looking for advice on a sea worthy bow rider. Started looking at 18 - 20 foot I/O but most advice here points to a 20 - 23 w/ 115 - 150 OB made for salt water. Seems these boats are made for fresh water, even if they have an outboard, and the boats trim just won't hold up to salt water.

    Now looking at the Sea Hunt 211 LE Escape and the larger 23 foot model.

    What other boats would be comparable to consider? The Key West was suggested but have not looked at a BR w/ OB yet. Intended use is pleasure boating in Maine inter coastal water ways that are mostly protected from the open ocean by peninsulas. Always check forecast for tides, wind, cross seas and can read the water and changing weather conditions well enough to know when to turn back so a bowrider shouldn't be a problem for when and where I boat.

  • #2
    Probably what is called a 'dual console' rather than a 'bow rider', if you are going to do ocean waters, even the more protected areas.

    What is your budget? New . . . Used ?

    Consider . . .

    Grady-White
    Edgewater
    Boston Whaler
    Key West
    Regulator
    Best regards, Ted . . . . Cape Cod, MA

    Formula 330 Sun Sport, O'Day Mariner Sail #3224, Sunfish
    Past Boats: Catalina 22 Sail #10531, Formula 242 Sun Sport
    Twin Mercruiser 7.4 LX MPI (0F802036, 039), Bravo 3's (0F806198, 199), Mercury 7.5 HP (1969), Johnson 4.5 HP (1980)

    My Boating Web Pages: http://www.tpenfield.com

    Member of the Month - February 2013

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Jonboat2Bassboat View Post
      Always check forecast for tides, wind, cross seas and can read the water and changing weather conditions well enough to know when to turn back so a bowrider shouldn't be a problem for when and where I boat.
      When dealing with tidal (big) waters, you always plan for the worst and wish for the best. Even a simple (scheduled) tide change can turn calm waters into a treacherous mess in a matter of minutes under the right conditions.

      Turning back isn't always an option.



      ....

      Comment


      • #4
        Thanks Ted,

        Read your article on buying and selling boats and will put your advice to work. I see you are from the cape, I grew up in Scituate, and wonder if you have boated in coastal Maine? If not a Maine road map will work for the locations mentioned.

        I boat the Kennebec River from Augusta to Bath in an 18 foot aluminium bass boat with flat bottom, little freeboard and a 70 HP Yamaha outboard. Would like to boat the Kennebec into Casco Bay and stop on some of the islands there, go down the Sheepscot River from Wiscasset to Booth Bay or head down the Damariscotta River. These are all intercostal waterways and what I consider mostly protected water. To minimize the danger I always check the tides, winds and forecast. Also took the US Power Squadron general boating course and will take their navigation course in the spring. In short I am a cautious boater and will not go beyond where my skill and boat can take me.

        So what boat do I want? Based on advice here, a used deep V fiberglass boat that is made for salt water, 20 to 23 feet long with a 115 to 150 HP 4-stroke outboard (preferably a Yamaha) that can carry 4 to 6 people comfortably. Comfort is key, a boat for cruising, going down a river to a coastal restaurant or landing on a near shore island to go hiking. Price range is $15,000 to $25,000 with a year range of 2000 to 2017.

        Think a bowrider fits the bill and open to what other types of boats anyone would think would work. Not partial to a center console, cuddy, walkabout or deck boat.

        Have looked at Grady-White and Boston Whaler (to expensive even for an older boat), did see an Edgewater that looked interesting, am looking at a Key West (a bowrider but don’t remember model), the Sea Hunt 211 LE Escape and the larger 23 foot model and will look into the Regulator. Also considering the Stingray 204LR with a 115 HP Yamaha outboard but am concerned, as someone else here said, it may be just a freshwater I/O they stuck an outboard on. I think the comment was the boat would be OK but the trim would get trashed in a couple of years because it was not made for salt water.

        I am in no hurry to buy. As you said, understand the market (and for me, understand boats) and then make a decision. If the right boat doesn’t turn up before winter it will next fall.

        Comment


        • #5
          Is there such a thing, by their very nature ?
          Perhaps your waters are more sheltered, but living in the west coast of Scotland, there aren't many days in the year that I would put my 18ft bowrider in the sea....apart from that, they just aren't meant for the sea, in my opinion.

          Comment


          • #6
            QBhoy,

            Agreed, which is why I am looking for a 20 to 23 foot bowrider with a 115 to 150 HP outboard to take out into "protected" waters on good days. On the other hand Gordon Brown from Skyack routinely takes people around the Isle of Sky (not to many protected waters around the Isle of Skye) in 16 to 18 foot sea kayaks. I figure a well powered 20 to 23 boat with a deep V hull and lots of freeboard would have a distinct advantage over a kayak.

            As for boats, I am looking for advice on what boats would work for my intended use, not those that wouldn't work. Someone here said any boat can be taken out into the ocean but having a boat that is likely, not guaranteed, to meet your needs is key. Bear in mind though that even the Titanic was taken down by the ocean and the Edmond Fitzgerald, while on a freshwater lake, was taken down.

            So what boat would you feel comfortable taking out into the unprotected waters around the west coast of Scotland? By the way my wife and I toured Scotland a couple of years ago and had a great time. Unfortunately I didn't learn of Gordon Brown until well after we got back. We plan to visit again in a couple of years and going on a sea kayak tour around the Isle of Skye with Gordon Brown will be one of my goals.

            Thanks for your advice.

            Comment


            • #7
              Hi there...many good points there.
              My old man has a 40ft Princess....she is ideal for Scottish west coast water in all but a few conditions beyond reason.
              If I had my choice for a day boat around here, it would without doubt be a Rib like a scorpion or osprey.
              The west coast is a lovely place and I haven't seen anything like it, even in all my merchant navy days round the world. Nicest place in the world when the sun shines, but god help the man that under estimates he when she shows her true self, often without much notice.
              Many sheltered stretches for kayaking and plenty do. Not my cup of tea. Most commercial guys have big ribs or hardtop type fast fishers like an Arvor etc.
              I'd love to throw my boat in the Clyde for a wee day trip and being honest on most occasions and with caution it would probably be just fine.
              It's just the memories of the odd occasion sailing on the old man's boat, when things get rough....I perhaps take a second thought about it. Progress in my boat (as fast as it is at over 60mph on the lake) would be painfully slow in anything over a fair breeze. The fact is that the average American bow rider of almost any size, just isn't meant for over here. They don't have the hull for it....even the best of them like a campion and similar.
              To sum it up....you won't see many American boats of any type in the sea over here. Those who do, learn a tuff lesson and either sell them on for a more suitable boat or just use them as a floating caravan in the marina.

              Comment


              • #8
                There will of course be exceptions and not meaning to ridicule all American boats...it's just that the Ones that make it over here tend to be the cheaper mass produced models like bayliner, sea ray, regal etc etc.
                If I remember right...you guys get boats like Boston whalers and similar over there ? Might this be an alternative to a bow rider for you ?
                Have you thought about a RIB ? Very popular over here for their functionality and robust build...usually based on well known UK racing hulls like scorpion, ring and similar designs.
                These things will do 40 knots in almost any weather.
                Haven't seen much of them over in the states for some reason.

                Comment


                • #9
                  JonBoat, it appears that you are a well informed shopper that knows his limitations and his stuff. We boat the Great Lakes, Ontario and Huron on occasion but 90% on Erie where we have a shack on the waterfront. Erie can kick up from a calm, sunny and water like glass to a raging storm in minutes not hours. I have seen days here where it went from a fine calm sunny afternoon to waterspouts in less than an hour. I cringe when I see 6 people 10 miles out in a 16' aluminum, I want to throttle them because it is us that has to tow them in and we risk or vessel and safety for their stupidity and or ignorance. I have only boated when fishing offshore as far as 60 miles the Atlantic in Florida and the Gulf and it too can kill you in a New York minute, no matter how big a vessel. We were caught in a storm running from Erie Pa. to Long Point Bay in a 35 foot Owens years ago. We sheltered in a bay at the tip of Long Point for 3 hours being tossed about like a cork in a tub. I kissed the ground when we hit land. 2 of the guys have never been on a boat again. What I am so inadequate in saying is how big is enough when Neptune gets PO'ed and decides to ruin a day? 21', 23' 33"? I may be a woose but when we are 10 to 15 miles offshore here and I see the wind shift, the sky darken on either side, or those short whitecaps start I pull riggers and hightail it home when all seems fine. More than once my mates have complained only to thank me once the storm hits. You seem to be well suited to do what you say and educated enough to know your limitations. I myself would want a Key West if I were shopping for a solid glass boat and I would max out on horsepower. You are in the right place to get quality advice from some very knowledgeable folks.

                  Good luck shopping, it's both exciting but can be frustrating as well.
                  Experience is a lifetime of mistakes, wisdom is not making them again.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Jonboat2Bassboat View Post
                    Thanks Ted,

                    Read your article on buying and selling boats and will put your advice to work. I see you are from the cape, I grew up in Scituate, and wonder if you have boated in coastal Maine? If not a Maine road map will work for the locations mentioned.
                    Thanks for your comments about my article. I have not boated in the Maine waters, but I imagine that it would be quite interesting. There are big tides there, if I recall correctly.

                    I think you are on the right track with a deep V hull from the makers of fishing style boats. If I come across anything interesting, I'll send you a link.

                    Best regards, Ted . . . . Cape Cod, MA

                    Formula 330 Sun Sport, O'Day Mariner Sail #3224, Sunfish
                    Past Boats: Catalina 22 Sail #10531, Formula 242 Sun Sport
                    Twin Mercruiser 7.4 LX MPI (0F802036, 039), Bravo 3's (0F806198, 199), Mercury 7.5 HP (1969), Johnson 4.5 HP (1980)

                    My Boating Web Pages: http://www.tpenfield.com

                    Member of the Month - February 2013

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      BTW- The Stingray and boats that are designed like it . . . i.e many of the common bowriders . . . are not designed for ocean waters where conditions (wind/waves) can deteriorate.

                      A common "bowrider" has a low sloping bow in order to provide good shore access from the bow for beaching. A "Dual Console", has the forward seating of a bowrider, but an important difference is that they share the hull design of a center console fishing boat in that the bow has the most freeboard for taking waves.

                      These 2 pictures should illustrate the point . .

                      The Stingray has a low sloping bow . . . lower than the freeboard height at the stern . . . and will fairly easily take a wave over the bow, which may eject occupants and swamp the boat.
                      Click image for larger version

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                      By contrast the Sea Hunt has the bow raised higher than the freeboard at the stern and will be able to handle waves and rough conditions much, much better, these boats are referred to as "Dual Console" because they share many of the design features of a "Center Console" boat.
                      Click image for larger version

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                      As you can see that boat designs are pretty much the opposite, where the bow of the Sea Hunt slopes upward and the bow of the Stingray slopes downward.

                      You generally find boats like the Stingray on lakes, where the conditions do not get as rough as they do on ocean waters.

                      So, for your waters, I would look for the Sea Hunt and boats like it.
                      Last edited by tpenfield; October 8th, 2017, 06:40 AM.
                      Best regards, Ted . . . . Cape Cod, MA

                      Formula 330 Sun Sport, O'Day Mariner Sail #3224, Sunfish
                      Past Boats: Catalina 22 Sail #10531, Formula 242 Sun Sport
                      Twin Mercruiser 7.4 LX MPI (0F802036, 039), Bravo 3's (0F806198, 199), Mercury 7.5 HP (1969), Johnson 4.5 HP (1980)

                      My Boating Web Pages: http://www.tpenfield.com

                      Member of the Month - February 2013

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Tpenfield.... thanks for that info. I learned something today. Didn't really know the difference between bowrider and dual console. I had thought my boat was a bowrider because of the seating at the bow. Now I realize it is a dual console.

                        Dave S. S/W Louisiana
                        2002 Larson SEI 190 fish 'n ski. 2002 Suzuki DF140 4 stroke
                        Sold: 2000 Odyssey Lextra 2102 Pontoon Boat, 2000 Johnson 90hp J90PLSSE
                        Sold: 1987 Rinker V190 4.3L 175 HP Alpha One Gen one

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by DRS4164 View Post
                          Tpenfield.... thanks for that info. I learned something today. Didn't really know the difference between bowrider and dual console. I had thought my boat was a bowrider because of the seating at the bow. Now I realize it is a dual console.
                          I'm thinking your Larson is a bowrider . . . although not as sloped as the Stingray that the OP is considering.

                          Click image for larger version

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                          Best regards, Ted . . . . Cape Cod, MA

                          Formula 330 Sun Sport, O'Day Mariner Sail #3224, Sunfish
                          Past Boats: Catalina 22 Sail #10531, Formula 242 Sun Sport
                          Twin Mercruiser 7.4 LX MPI (0F802036, 039), Bravo 3's (0F806198, 199), Mercury 7.5 HP (1969), Johnson 4.5 HP (1980)

                          My Boating Web Pages: http://www.tpenfield.com

                          Member of the Month - February 2013

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I have a Stingray 198 and can tell you from experience it would never do well in big waters. My lake is sheltered and the biggest open water we have is maybe 1 mile. In two foot chop my boat will launch out of the water, fun but not for all. In three foot chop my baby is snuggled up next to my dock. Stingray is definitely not a big water boat or at least mine is not or I'm to chicken to go out, lol, likely a little of both.
                            198LE Stingray 4.3 TKS

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                            • #15
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                              Thanks everyone,

                              The replies here were much appreciated. They have narrowed my search down to the Sea Hunt and Key West dual console boats. Because of the advice here I finally “got it” about the difference between common bowriders and sea worthy dual consoles.

                              Thanks to TPenfield for explaining the difference between a bowrider and a dual console and for showing a graph of the relative height of the bows. THAT was priceless advice.

                              QBhoy, thanks for letting me know about the Scorpion boats. IF money was no object that is what I would buy.

                              Old Ironmaker, thanks for referring to me as a well-informed shopper that, as Dirty Harry said, “A man’s got to know his limitations.” I like to think I know just enough to know to go here to get good answers, as you said.

                              Roffey, thanks for letting me know you value your life more than the thrill of going out into 3 foot chop.

                              I am going to post on advice on choosing between a couple of models of Sea Hunt and Key West boats rather than stick it onto the end of this topic.

                              Thanks again for all your help,

                              Tom

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