Should I buy this boat? Four winns 200

jwilkey84

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I have the opportunity to buy a 1998 four winns 200. I realize it's end of boating season here in the Midwest, and I've been casually looking for a couple years. I think this is the size of boat I want As it's all that will fit in my garage. It's not my dream boat but I think it's priced good and will serve my family well for several years; it would also allow us to jump into boating at a reasonable price to see if we'll actually use it.
So it's a 1998 four winns 200, with the Volvo 5.0GL (220 hp carbd), tandem axle trailer, has bimini, snap on covers. 470 hrs., bow filler cushions, sun deck was reupholstered last year, it has the bucket seats with rear bench like I think I want, seats 10. Always covered when it was on their lift, stored inside during winters, always maintained and winterized by local four winns dealer. I like the four winns of this era because of the swing away tongue which will allow it to fit in my garage. It isn't new enough to have snap out carpet...but is the floor fiberglass under the carpet in these models? I would guess it's old enough that there's wood in the construction but that's not all bad if it was cared for, right ? I can buy this boat for $6000.

Pros. I like the color and layout.
5.0 v8.
Swing away tongue.
Tandem axle.
Seats in good shape.
Bimini and filler cushions.
Two owner boat.
$6000 seems very reasonable to me.

Cons. Traditional carpet.
Is the carbd 5.0 enough motor?
I wouldn't want to buy anything older.
Should I hold out for efi model?
Is there fiberglass or wood under carpet?
Is 470 hrstoo many?

So I think I'm gonna go test drive it this weekend. Is it an absolute must to have a mechanic look at a used boat ? I plan on checking for soft spots and shaking the outdrive to check for weak transom. Check motor and lu oil. What else should I do? Owner said all gauges work...as I know some of these models had a ground wire problem on the gauge clusters. I'm pretty competent if I know what I'm lookin for. I think this boat could be a lot of fun for 6000 but I don't want to buy a 6000 anchor either and I would prefer not to have to replace the motor in the next 5 yrs. my thought is that this boat won't depreciate much in 5 years if it's still in good shape then. I'll take any advice PLEASE!! Thanks. Btw my wife is comfortable with me spending $6k vs. $12k since she doesn't think we'll use it. Hopefully I can convince her otherwise and buy the $15k boat in a few years. I have a 4 and 6 yr. old and feel like this is a good age to take em to the lake.
 

jwilkey84

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Forgot to mention that is has some of the scale and scum on the outdrive...is this pretty normal and can it be polished off? Owner said when it was on the lift the outrdrive wAs out of the water. Is this any real concern ?
 

jwilkey84

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shaw520

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Boat and trailer look pretty clean, i guess the price is fair, depends on location. 5.0 will have good power for that size boat. Outdrive can be sanded clean and repainted with a good outdrive paint. If it had a fiberglass deck carpets wiuld be snap in,..so likely wiod deck under carpet. I would try to get it for 5k
 

tpenfield

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I notice that you have been on this forum for a while, so is this not your first boat?

Wood floor, and lots of wood below deck so take a look in the engine compartment, ski locker and anywhere else you can access. Look for signs of moisture and/or rot. Remember the boat is about 20 years old. Four Winns are adequately built (but not overly so) for their intended life span, which is about 20 years, so look for things like bare wood or lightly coated wood down below.

470 hours is light use. You should not have to replace the engine at any time in the next 10 years, (unless you break it :eek: )

Carburetor engine is fine . . . EFI/MPI can be a nightmare to fix

Outdrive is fine . . just wash it and see if it will clean up with a scrub sponge.

Make sure it will fit in your garage . . . tape measure would be good to bring.

Definitely a ride to see that everything works and the boat performs as expected. Often for boats in this price range, folks don't have them inspected. If you have a boating buddy, bring them along for the viewing/ride.

$6K is right at NADA average, as a reference point. So you are not stealing the boat, In 5 years, plan on it being worth about $3-4K

Are you doing fresh water? or ocean waters?

Boater safety course for you and the 'Admiral' ?
 

Scott Danforth

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I agree with Ted.

470 hours is only 24 hours of use per year (the average is 50). most motors will run to about 3000 hours
the carbed 5.0 should be plenty of motor for the boat, you should be able to hit 50mph
carbed is easier to work on and maintain than EFI, especially when things start to go wrong.
there is wood encased in fiberglass as the floor under the carpeting.
nothing wrong with carpeting if you maintain it. at end of season, a bucket of hot water with some laundry soap and a scrub brush, then hose to rinse. let sit in the sun to dry
 

jwilkey84

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Yes this would be my first "real" boat. I have posted a few times on here in the past 10-12 years...mainly for engine troubleshooting when I had my first fishing boat as a high schooler. I've had a couple small fishing boats with tiller outboards and such. This would be my first family boat. Yes I plan on taking a buddy with me on the ride, he has a boat as well but we're not experts.
Will wood rot under the ski locker and in the transom area be obvious ? I've always heard these volvos shift good but I've never operated one...what should I expect there? I assume it's a good idea to check the lu oil before ever starting the engine to see if water comes out the drain hole. I'll be using this boat on small lakes in Iowa, I'll prly never leave it in the water overnight and plan on keeping it in my garage most of the time. If I find wood rot in the sundeck or on the seat wood, should I also suspect wood rot beneath ? How new of a boat would I need to get away from wood construction...2000? And if nothing has ever needed replaced besides the normal stuff at winterizing time shouldn't I expect stuff to start wearing out? Starters, gimble bearings, etc? Is it possible for a guy like me to do gimble work myself?...if I can I like to fix things myself! Thanks guys. I really thought $6000 was a good price for a 20' boat, esp since the owner was asking $7500 and it looks to be clean. I booked it at about $6300 in good condition. So if you were looking at this boat...what would make you walk away from it ? And I know it's gonna be a very tight fit in the garage but it plan on backing it in with a garden tractor to be careful. I think I'll only have about 1/2" on each side when backing in the door ! I'm not trying to be cheap but this looked like a good value to me, I have no problem spending more money if I'm missing something here.
 

tpenfield

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If I find wood rot in the sundeck or on the seat wood, should I also suspect wood rot beneath ? How new of a boat would I need to get away from wood construction...2000?

​Many boats are still made of wood. Some have switched to all synthetic materials, but others still use wood. then there are some that use a combination of wood and synthetics. Most boat companies would rather you not know the specifics of how they are built. The wood used in newer boats tends to be Pressure Treated (KDAT) so it resists rot, but not moisture retention. 2004-2005 is typical of when boat companies switched to the new types of wood. Other boat companies were switching to synthetics in the 2000-2005 era.

And if nothing has ever needed replaced besides the normal stuff at winterizing time shouldn't I expect stuff to start wearing out?

​Stuff will wear out once you get the boat home and the seller has deposited your funds in his bank :D Boats break all the time . . . they just do. Mostly little stuff, but there always seems to be something.

Starters, gimble bearings, etc? Is it possible for a guy like me to do gimble work myself?...if I can I like to fix things myself!

If you work on cars to a decent level, (brake jobs, strut replacement, exhaust systems, radio replacements/upgrades) then you can figure out boats.

Thanks guys. I really thought $6000 was a good price for a 20' boat, esp since the owner was asking $7500 and it looks to be clean.

Asking prices don't matter. If the boat was worth $7,500, it would have been sold already . . . so it is not worth that much. Value is based on comparisons and what a buyer and seller can agree upon. Most sellers think their boat is worth more than what a buyer is willing to pay. A boat does not sell until there is like thinking as to what a boat is worth.

I booked it at about $6300 in good condition. So if you were looking at this boat...what would make you walk away from it ?

If I found rot, then I might pass.
 

Scott Danforth

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boats still have a design life between 15-20 years of normal use.

nothing lasts forever
 

wahlejim

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Ultimately the boat is worth what you are willing to pay for it. I agree that it is nothing spectacular nor a steal, but it's not overpriced either. It is a good looking boat in the expected price range. It would be a great starter boat for a family. Since it is a starter boat, compromises are usually made from your 'dream' boat. But if you have the money, it is worth buying for a year to test out and selling if you want something different. If you sell it mid season next year because you don't like it, you should be able to recoup your money.

Now onto more specific information.

1) Look in your area for mechanics that will service the Volvo Pentas. They are becoming fewer and far between. Eventually, a 20 year old boat will need some major service and you want to make sure there is someone nearby who can do that.

2) But weight on every square inch of that floor. Typically all of your weight on one foot is enough. Check for flexing or soft spots. Even the smallest area is a signal to move on as boats rot from the bottom up. If you are spending $6,000 on a 20 year old boat, I wouldn't expect to have to rebuild any area of the stringers or floor.

3) As others have mentioned, the 5.0 is plenty of power. I have a 5.0 on my 1980 20 foot sea ray and top off at 51mph when propped for speed and lightly loaded. I also have no problem towing a couple of tubes or 2 skiers behind the boat. Carbed engines are easy to work on as well if you like to do your own maintenance.

4) To answer your question on the outdrive, if you like to work on things, you will have no problem taking care of the maintenance items yourself, including gimbal and bellows. The first time there is a learning curve, but as soon as you learn the tips and tricks, it will become a habit like changing oil on a car. You will also save a ton of money doing it yourself.

With all of that being said, check the POs maintenance records. See when the last time the following issues were addressed with expected PM time frames:

1) Water pump (1-2years)
2) Bellows (3-5 years)
3) Gimbal Ring (As needed, inspect every year for wear and grease)
4) Trailer tires (As needed)
5) Shift cables (5-7 years)

These would be bargaining points to bring the price down. If they were all done recently, $6,000 is very reasonable. If the owner knew he was selling it so he put some stuff off, you could drop another $1,000 on the boat real quick addressing these issues. The good news is you have all winter to address these issues and learn some stuff. If he doesn't have the records, assume it all needs to be done and price accordingly.

Good Luck!
 

JASinIL2006

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To check for rot, walk over every inch of the floor; in bare feet, if possible, putting all your weight on one foot. The floor shouldn't give at all.

In the ski locker, you should be able to see stringers, the structural members that run the length of the boat. In a '98 boat, these could be wood encased in fiberglass or fiberglass with a foam core. It's hard to know which you have without drilling test holes, something that most sellers won't allow. So tap, prod (a screwdriver is helpful) and inspect any parts of the stringers you can see, especially at the bottom where they meet the hull. Hard, solid stringers are what you want.

Do the same in the engine compartment. Check the transom around the keyhole, around any thru-hull fittings, and near the bottom where the transom meets the hull. Check the motor mounts and any other structures (e.g., bulkheads) that you can see. Everything should feel solid and should have no 'give' when you poke it with a screwdriver.
 

tpenfield

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As far as replacing stuff every so often . . . I think you will find that most folks don't have a lot of things replaced, unless they are a marina glutton. So, don't be dismayed if the previous owner (PO) has not done a bunch of things that some people would recommend.

I have owned older boats for the most part and have adopted a theory "if it ain't broke, don't replace it" . . . of course you need to keep a watchful eye on things to understand when they are starting to break.

My boat is 21 years old . . . not much has been replaced on it, but every part on the boat 'could' be replaced because it is 21 years old.
 

jkust

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Looks like a fine first boat. It is what it is...a 90's technology and construction methods boat. It was early 2000's-ish when the bowrider manufacturers transitioned out of 90's building into the next generation of hull style and wood replacement products such as king starboard in most places where there was wood in the 90's and flow through seat 'foam', glass floors and no more glued down to wood carpet, etc. Many still to this day have some wood in various places because at the end of the day, the qualities of wood in a boat are good not bad aside from the succeptibility to rot when water intrudes and can't get out. Every thing has a downside so everything has a tradeoff. Old boats unfortunately are going to have had enough situations that could have forced them to have some water intrusion. As far as 90's gen bowriders, other than the terrible 90's colors that Four Winns was a bid adopter, I like the look of them. 6k is pocket change to get out on the water.
 

garbageguy

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I agree with all that others have said. Go over it carefully with your friend, take that person with you on the sea trial, lower your offer if any of the mentioned items can't be verified (boat and trailer). Know the selling cost of similar boats in your area. Looks pretty good from here.
 

Lowlysubaruguy

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The seller may not like this but a straight sharp mechanics pic will flat show rotting wood in a boat floor push with moderate pressure in areas around mounting fixtures and low spots water enters wood in screw holes and areas where it can't dry out the worst. Carpet is the fastest way to kill a wood floor.
 

jwilkey84

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Boats here in Iowa seem to sell at or above book value; from what I've seen. I think it's partiallly due to the idea that folks can't afford new so they overpay for used just to get on the water. I think I'll go look at it this weekend. I'll take a buddy and a screwdriver or ice pick for poking around and see what I find.
The bow area of this boat has fiberglass floor but from the windshield back is carpet. Makes me wonder if it could be fiberglass under the carpet as well; and snap out stuff just wasn't a popular option yet. I saw another boat of the same year or maybe one year newer and the owner said they special ordered it with the snap out carpet. Thanks for all the insight
 

tpenfield

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Boats here in Iowa seem to sell at or above book value; from what I've seen. I think it's partiallly due to the idea that folks can't afford new so they overpay for used just to get on the water. I think I'll go look at it this weekend. I'll take a buddy and a screwdriver or ice pick for poking around and see what I find.
The bow area of this boat has fiberglass floor but from the windshield back is carpet. Makes me wonder if it could be fiberglass under the carpet as well; and snap out stuff just wasn't a popular option yet. I saw another boat of the same year or maybe one year newer and the owner said they special ordered it with the snap out carpet. Thanks for all the insight

It is fun to dream . . . It is most likely wood with a glass coating, but not the true fiberglass floor. A close inspection will tell, as there is only so much that can be gleamed for photos.
 

jkust

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Boats here in Iowa seem to sell at or above book value; from what I've seen. I think it's partiallly due to the idea that folks can't afford new so they overpay for used just to get on the water. I think I'll go look at it this weekend. I'll take a buddy and a screwdriver or ice pick for poking around and see what I find.
The bow area of this boat has fiberglass floor but from the windshield back is carpet. Makes me wonder if it could be fiberglass under the carpet as well; and snap out stuff just wasn't a popular option yet. I saw another boat of the same year or maybe one year newer and the owner said they special ordered it with the snap out carpet. Thanks for all the insight


Boats in MN are the same...the book value is a pipe dream. Boats that book at 13k would have a line a mile long to buy them at that price as they are 21k or whaterver. As for that fiberglass floor in the bow, that is a common feature on 90's boats and even into the early 2000's as well and the rest is carpet over wood. Fiberglass floor was a big deal and the only brand I've ever seen that put glued down carpet over fiberglass floor was Bryant back then. There's i'm sure other examples out there as well with boats that didn't make it to my areas.
 

Slip Away

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1998 has the ill-fated VDO gauge cluster. If it has not been repaired yet, it will fail soon. Repair cost is over $300.
 

Blind Date

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The fiberglass floor in the open bow is part of the deck mold which is a fairly common design. If you pulled the rub rail off and separated the the hull & deck, the floor would come with it. As others have stated the carpeted area is most likely glassed over wood.

Personally I would also be looking for boats in MN & WI and not limit myself to what's a available locally. I think lack of inventory in IA is a reason people tend to ask more for them.
 
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