First Boat/ opinions

[mort5029]

New Buyer

OK I am looking for my first boat. I want a cruiser that sleeps three. Aft cabin, Here is my issue, I am new to the boating game. Looking to cruise the great lakes, maybe overnight once and a while. Want something between 23 and 26'. I really like the Four Winns boats, mid 90's, but everything I have read says stay away from the engine, Volvo and Cobra OD. So please help me on what I should stay away from, maybe what to look for in that size, probably mid to late 90's for 10-12000. Thanks for all your help, I have routinely searched your forum during this process.

Here is one I am looking at
http://www.boattrader.com/listing/1996-FOUR-WINNS-238-VISTA-103131893

any help/thoughts

 

[Dave-R]

I think Volvo Penta Inboard outboards are as good as it gets. Cobra drives are not made anymore, and parts are hard to get for them Also stay away from Ford engines, as they also stopped marine production and parts are hard to find for them also. I also like the Four Winns boats. Dave-R

 

[grtomboy]

Carver w/ Mercruiser?

 

[tpenfield]

:welcome:

Each boat will be unique, so you will want to inspect the boat structure for signs of rot. If you can get a boat with a Mercruiser engine, then that may be a better a approach than something with a Volvo/OMC hybrid. Keep in mind OMC went belly up in the late 1990's. If it is purely a Volvo-Penta engine & outdrive, then that would be better.

Keep your options open as to the brand of boat, etc. The 2 big issues will be the mechanical aspects (engine & outdrive) and the structural aspects ( transom, stringers, decking) in terms of moisture retention and rot. Cruisers are more difficult to 'fix' than cuddy cabins or runabouts.

 

[Scott Danforth]

welcome aboard

here is a read http://forums.iboats.com/forum/gene...eeding-help-buying-a-boat-a-buyer-s-checklist

stay away from OMC. Volvo penta and Mercruiser are ok. (except the 3.7 liter mercruiser)

your looking at boats that are between 20 and 28 years old. so your going to find problems. here is a place where you want to stretch your budget and look for that garage kept beauty that was washed after every outing and wiped down with a towel.

 

[mort5029]

Ok I am looking at the attached boat. It appears to be in very good condition. Not much use from previous owners. I have confirmed that the guy wants just north of 10000. I am not going to give him that. I was thinking somewhere in the low 9000, since there is no trailer which is not huge for me. I am going to have a survey done, but before I even start the final negotiations, I wanted to get an idea what everyone thinks would be a fair price. I know its tough based on add only, but even a high and a low for a great price would help. Thanks

http://www.boattrader.com/listing/1996-FOUR-WINNS-238-VISTA-103131893

 

[ThomW]

I would recommend going to NADA and checking out their prices. It's basically a Kelley Blue Book, but for boats. From a quick search, and depending on features of the boat, it looks like average retail is $9,060 and low retail is about $7,935. That is without a trailer. Check it out, "Nadaguides.com.

Hope this helps!

 

[tpenfield]

Your risk is that someone else thinks it is worth more and makes an offer. If the boat has been on the market for a while, then go for what you are willing to pay. The seller may not accept that . . . so you either narrow the gap a little, or you move on . . . to the next boat, which is always just around the corner.

​No, hard set rules about what you have to pay. You offer what you think the boat is worth (to you), and the seller's challenge is to decide if he wants to accept it or if he thinks it will be worth more to someone else who may come along.

 

[jkust]

Looks like a nice boat for a 90's model. Don't like a 5.0 on that big of a boat but i'm sure it will do. As for a survey, maybe call around and see what they charge. The base price for a survey for the smallest boat in my state is about $2,000 because there are only two or three marine surveyors around but not sure how that works in your state but something to think about.

 

[harleyman1975]

Just know Volvo penta is a good quality unit but parts are more expensive than mercruiser and dealers are farther apart so service may be an issue and repair cost will be higher.

 

[harleyman1975]

Yup the sea ray is a common boat in these parts and most if not all are mercruiser powered.

 

[garbageguy]

Yep, structure is important - look for signs of rot, and places where water could get into any covered wood - and start rotting. One such place is in the bilge where people like to attach things, such as wire clamps, into the fiberglass shell over wood structure - perhaps a motor mount, or bulkhead. Ask if there's any wood-core structural components, such as stringers, motor mounts, transom.

 

[Sprig]

From the pictures that boat is immaculate, looks like it's had good care. Was it stored in dry storage? Doesn't look like it was birthed on the water. Why does it have no trailer? Ask who does the maintenance and repair and ask to see maintenance and repair records, that may tell you a lot. Obviously the 2 most important factors as already mentioned are the engine and outdrive and structural integrity. Marine surveys are expensive, sometimes worth it but still expensive. You can get a mechanic to check the engine but rot in the hull is another matter. I do not know if that particular boat has wood, wood stringers in the hull. If wood in the hull then you absolutely need someone to check it. If not then you may be ok unless Water has saturated the floatation. Keep in mind that a decent trailer for that size boat will run a couple thousand.
I just did a little research and I didn't find anything that shows if there is or isn't wood in the hull. However I am pretty sure that vintage boat more than likely has wood. Therefore my number one concern would be if there is rot in the hull.

 

[QBhoy]

Hi
Depends on your budget firstly, I suppose.
What Scott D has said is spot on. Having had VP and Mercruiser, I can tell you that mainly the engines are the same and without bother (3.0, 4.3, 5.0, 5.7 and so on) the drives differ between the two. I
In relation to the drives, the VP drives are certainly better engineered, but a total pain in the bum to maintain compared to the merc drives....especially the Alpha 1. For the cost to fix a VP duo prop drive, you could almost buy a new Alpha 1 in some cases.
You mention the Great Lakes....I'm from across the pond, but from what I know of these, they can blow up a fair bit....perhaps a though when choosing a boat...or just be careful with the weather...or both ?

 

[Old Ironmaker]

I live on Erie's shoreline and boat the Great Lakes, 90% Erie and 10% Ontario on the Canadian side. A 22 to 25 footer you are hit and miss concerning weather and most importantly winds here. You won't be going too far from a Marina where you can take shelter, there are stretches of 20 miles or more on our north shore of Erie where there is no safe port in a storm. I don't want to discourage you but with limited experience boating taking on the Great Lakes is daunting in any sized vessel.

 

[QBhoy]

I live on Erie's shoreline and boat the Great Lakes, 90% Erie and 10% Ontario on the Canadian side. A 22 to 25 footer you are hit and miss concerning weather and most importantly winds here. You won't be going too far from a Marina where you can take shelter, there are stretches of 20 miles or more on our north shore of Erie where there is no safe port in a storm. I don't want to discourage you but with limited experience boating taking on the Great Lakes is daunting in any sized vessel.

Well said ! Didn't think I'd be alone on this one.....
Where I live there are lovely lochs (lakes if you are English) and there is also the Clyde and Atlantic on the west coast, which are both equidistant for me....I have a bowrider speedboat and have had a few 23ft cruisers. These are totally fine for the loch, but a total gamble for the Clyde or the sea. Even in experienced hands. In fact experienced hands wouldn't entertain it. I'm fortunate enough to have a lovely 42ft Princess in the family too....this is more suited for the sea...even still caution is required.
I'd imagine the Great Lakes require similar respect and caution !

 

[mr 88]

My guess is the marina wants there cut for leg work etc, So the actual owner wants 10,000 and the rest goes to the broker. Not much wiggle room when someone is in there to get there cut,maybe a grand off asking price and more negotiable as the season ends and winter sets in. Any offer should be contingent on boat passing survey which should run around 500.00 and include both land and in water inspections. I do agree that boat may be a bit underpowered

 

[JimS123]

10G for a 21 year old boat with unknown maintenance and a Volvo to boot. Not my cup of tea.

 

[tpenfield]

10G for a 21 year old boat with unknown maintenance and a Volvo to boot. Not my cup of tea.

Agreed, I wouldn't even go near that thing . . .

 

[savetexomabeaches]

Oh no, a volvo.... ugh.... search around for how many volvo shops are around your area.. I'll guess not many...