opinions on late 80's bayliners? I hear they have some issues

littlebunker

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Hi,

I am looking at an 80's bayliner capri. I've heard bad things about late 80's bayliners. It seems to be a nebulous dislike though. But you hear horror stories about the hull just like.... breaking in half and sinking, and stuff.

Anyone want to chime in with either opinions on them, OR, even better, information about late 80's capris? i.e. Id feel a million times better if I knew that they had fiberglass stringers (some boat manufacturers were using glass by the 80s, yeah?) and/or things to look out for/check when I go look at it again?

Thanks!

p.s. this will be my second powerboat. I've been on the water in canoes/aluminum fishing boats/ etc for 20 years but only been powerboating for 5 years. I think I'm good enough that I never like slam into the dock full speed, but I also make mistakes that experienced boaters don't make. I definitely get nervous pulling into the dock, i definitely do things like pull up too close and then drift into the dock, etc. Not sure if that factors in... The point I'm going for is that i hear about bayliners liek snapping in half when you hit a wave wrong and stuff like that. If true (I know... don't believe what you hear on the internet), but if true, seems not worth it because I don't trust myself to take a wave perfectly every time you know?
 

Tnstratofam

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Cheaply manufactured boats that do not ( Like Most Boats ) hold up well left exposed and uncovered to the elements. Probably manufactured with wood stringers, deck, and transom. Poorly fiberglassed with chopper guns by Bayliner.

The Capris have a sporty hull design which rides pretty good in the water I believe. Probably powered by a 3.0 mercruiser or worse a 2.5 OMC if an I/O or any number of possible outboards. Might get lucky and find a 4.3 or 5.7 liter, but stay away from any OMC powered inboards as parts are getting harder to locate.

Unless you are lucky enough to find a well maintained properly stored for its entire life example, or one completely rebuilt with good documentation pretty much any boat from the 80's thru the early 2000's is gonna be a potential rotten mess. That's any manufacturer not just Bayliner.

Condition, Condition, Condition is everything in used boats. A $5000 dollar boat could be a diamond in the rough while a $10,000 dollar boat still doesn't guarantee a rot and trouble free craft.

Anything $2500- $5000 needs to be thoroughly inspected. Hard fiberglass hides rotten wood real well.

Good luck and post up potential boats you are looking at.
 

ondarvr

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Any boat from the 80's will need about the same amount of work, which is a total gut and rebuild, so if you like the boat and it works for how you want to use it, any brand is about equal.

There are a few that didn't use wood, but not all models or sizes of a brand may have been built that way, plus it could change mid-year, or at any time, so it can come down to the exact boat. The foam will still be waterlogged though.

Pick a boat that uses a drive system that has a good reputation and parts still available, I/O or outboard.
 
Last edited:

Scott Danforth

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tnstratofam hit most of the points on the 80's bayliners with regards to the hull. nearly all of them have rotten stringers, transoms and decks.

I think he meant 2.3 OMC (pinto motor)

at the top of the forum is the following sticky : http://forums.iboats.com/forum/gene...eeding-help-buying-a-boat-a-buyer-s-checklist

if your looking at a boat, read it.

also, if you still have your mind set on a mid 80's bayliner, go over to the restoration forum and read a bit over there about restoring it.
 

Tnstratofam

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I think he meant 2.3 OMC (pinto motor)

Yep my fat fingers hit the 5 instead of the 3.:facepalm:


Oh and one thing I forgot to mention which ondarvr hit upon is almost any boat is rebuildable. If the Bayliner is a hull design you like, ( and like I said the Capris are sporty ), if there is rot or problems they can usually be rebuilt or repaired.

The key is getting the boat at a price you can live with while "hopefully" knowing what other expenses you may be looking at.
 

littlebunker

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ok thanks. so one thing I am not quite clear on. I have been reading a lot about fiberglass and hearing conflicting things.

On the one hand, i read that fiberglass is impervious to water. This makes sense. People say that a fiberglass hull will last forever and outlive a boat owner.
On the other hand, I read things like (i think on this forum not too long ago was the most recent time I read it) fiberglass actually soaks up water. I thought I read that a glass boat will be totally waterlogged in like 10 years. And this accords with what ondarvr says (not trying to call you out, your comment is one of many times I've seen things like this) about the foam being waterlogged.

If it gets waterlogged, is this normal? or worrisome? or what's the deal. I don't want to regut and fix a boat, but I'm also not in a position to buy a new boat, either. I just want a used boat that won't snap in half on me or something, you know?

Kinda makes me terrified to buy a glass boat.
 

jkust

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Just the mere probability that any glass/wood stringer boat from the 80's isn't rotted or otherwise troubled is stacked against you. Now add onto that that those Bayliners were sold to entry level buyers at a very cheap price so they could learn how to be boaters and move onto something nicer or just move out of boating alltogether when they realize boating requires more effort than they anticipated. Add on 30 plus years of use and storage and lack of preventative maintenance and I would seek something where at least the probability is a bit better meaning something from the late 90's. Unless a boat that old has been rehabbed, I never see anything 30 plus years old that isn't pretty decrepit on my lake unless it is an old 14 foot tinny whereby the interior has still likely been rehabbed.
My advice, buy much newer. Boats from the 90's are still inexpensive.
 

ondarvr

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The fiberglass will absorb water, most of the time this isn't an issue, but hulls can blister, this isn't as common on boats kept on trailers though. The foam will normally be waterlogged and will need to be replaced.

The typical car from the 80's would need a ton of work to become a daily driver again, especially if it had been kept in the side yard under tree for most of its life, a boat would need even more work. Expect to spend at least 6 months and several thousand dollars to get a mid 80's boat back on the water, this is an optimistic estimate. Add that to the cost of the boat.
 

jkust

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ok thanks. so one thing I am not quite clear on. I have been reading a lot about fiberglass and hearing conflicting things.

On the one hand, i read that fiberglass is impervious to water. This makes sense. People say that a fiberglass hull will last forever and outlive a boat owner.
On the other hand, I read things like (i think on this forum not too long ago was the most recent time I read it) fiberglass actually soaks up water. I thought I read that a glass boat will be totally waterlogged in like 10 years. And this accords with what ondarvr says (not trying to call you out, your comment is one of many times I've seen things like this) about the foam being waterlogged.

If it gets waterlogged, is this normal? or worrisome? or what's the deal. I don't want to regut and fix a boat, but I'm also not in a position to buy a new boat, either. I just want a used boat that won't snap in half on me or something, you know?

Kinda makes me terrified to buy a glass boat.


Most so-called fiberglass boats' super structure is made of wood. Most times they, the wood stringers/what supports the floor and the hull, are wrapped in fiberglass and resin but when water sits in a boat because for example it was stored without a cover or a leaky cover, the water finds ways to penetrate in as it puddles. Of course when you see a boat with a carpeted floor, the carpet is layed over plywood on those older boats as well. The plywood may have fiberglass over it that is under the carpet but again, poor storage or just long term use can cause rotting issues. Even worse are the wooden transoms that tend to rot. There are just so many things that can rot on a fiberglass hull boat because there generally is a lot of wood in them. As it turns out, the properties of wood in a boat are a good thing but everything has a downside and rot is the big one with wood. You have to go very new to find bowriders that have no wood in them at all and even then many manufacturers use wood still. Maybe in the very early 2000's you started to see a lot of the wood and things that can rot such as seat cushion material being replaced with plastics and flow through materials that are impervious to rot and as time went on more and more manufacturers started to follow suite. I mentioned buying a boat from the 1990s above but the reality for bowriders is it took until the 2000's for the old 80's build materials to start to disappear. My sig boat for example bears almost zero similarities to the equivalent/similar model just 3 years prior whereby the wood almost disappeared and was replaced by fiberglass and thick plastics and flow through type materials. On the flip side we still have an early 80's Bayliner that my dad bought new from the boat show in 1984 and is in museum quality condition from having been taken care of its whole existence yet is about as low quality of a fiberglass boat as there has ever been. The fiberglass is actually translucent in spots. It is the antithesis of my sig boat in every possible way other than it float and has an engine.
 

littlebunker

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thanks for the info

So, I'm confused about something else now. if I'm looking at a boat that's being used regularly, and it looks nice, and I can take it out for a test drive, what exactly would I need to do to it to "get it back in the water"? It seems like it's already in the water. i.e. this boat doesn't leak, the guy (the owner is a friend of a friend) uses it a few times a month or maybe less, but it get used....
So when you say back in the water.... does that just mean safe with everyone working properly? or even if its being used does that mean I still need to gut it? If i get a survey who says the stringers aren't rotten, is that the most difficult issue I would run into? Even if the floor is rotten, if the stringers are fine, in my mind pulling a plywood floor isn't too awful. Maybe a month and a few hundred dollars. Or am I way off?
 

Tnstratofam

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The problem ( in my opinion ) with most boats being rotted or waterlogged stems more from the boats being left uncovered outdoors exposed to the elements. The hull is not the typical water intrusion point it's the deck area and all the compartments that get left open or uncovered. Water that sits in the hull from rain and snow will find its way below deck over time. There is also condensation which forms below deck from temperature changes. All this moisture will eventually find a weak spot in the fiberglass.

When water gets inbetween the fiberglass and the wood core it is protecting it will start to rot the wood core. Also if enough water finds its way in and there are repeated freeze thaw cycles it will bust the fiberglass creating an even bigger entry point for water.

Keep in mind the gel coat on the exterior hull, interior hull and top deck are not usually found protecting the stringers, and or transom fiberglass so there is a better chance for water intrusion.

Most boats rot from the inside out from water that gets trapped in between the deck and bottom hull. Not so much from the water penetrating from the outer hull below the waterline, but from water that gets inside the boat above deck.


Remember a boat is meant to be in the water, not a bathtub to hold water inside.
 

Scott Danforth

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ok thanks. so one thing I am not quite clear on. I have been reading a lot about fiberglass and hearing conflicting things.

On the one hand, i read that fiberglass is impervious to water. This makes sense. People say that a fiberglass hull will last forever and outlive a boat owner.
On the other hand, I read things like (i think on this forum not too long ago was the most recent time I read it) fiberglass actually soaks up water. I thought I read that a glass boat will be totally waterlogged in like 10 years. And this accords with what ondarvr says (not trying to call you out, your comment is one of many times I've seen things like this) about the foam being waterlogged.

If it gets waterlogged, is this normal? or worrisome? or what's the deal. I don't want to regut and fix a boat, but I'm also not in a position to buy a new boat, either. I just want a used boat that won't snap in half on me or something, you know?

Kinda makes me terrified to buy a glass boat.

properly laid and surfaced fiberglass is nearly impervious to water - mid 80's bayliners were not properly laid or surfaced (gel coat)

exposed fiberglass does soak up water

foam that is exposed to water and poor storage along with poor maintenance is going to be waterlogged (doesn't matter if the boat is fiberglass, wood, aluminum, steel or concrete) - mid 80's bayliners did not have the foam properly encapsulated

if you dont want to "regut and fix a boat", buy a newer boat or one that was well maintained and garage kept. Even tinny boats need maintenance and many need the wood transom and floor redone. Boating is an expensive, maintenance intensive hobby
 

Tnstratofam

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thanks for the info

So, I'm confused about something else now. if I'm looking at a boat that's being used regularly, and it looks nice, and I can take it out for a test drive, what exactly would I need to do to it to "get it back in the water"? It seems like it's already in the water. i.e. this boat doesn't leak, the guy (the owner is a friend of a friend) uses it a few times a month or maybe less, but it get used....
So when you say back in the water.... does that just mean safe with everyone working properly? or even if its being used does that mean I still need to gut it? If i get a survey who says the stringers aren't rotten, is that the most difficult issue I would run into? Even if the floor is rotten, if the stringers are fine, in my mind pulling a plywood floor isn't too awful. Maybe a month and a few hundred dollars. Or am I way off?

There are lots of rotten boats that show little to no signs of damage running around the lakes and rivers. Most owners have no clue, and the ones that do and still take their boats out are tempting allot of fate.

Mind you a rotten boat can still perform and float just not as good as new.

P.S.

Tin or "Alluminum" boats can have rotten wood transom and decks as well. The big difference is most use alluminium stringers and bracing, but as with any boat they also need proper maintenance and storage.

By the way I have both and they're both expensive toys.:D
 

jkust

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Boating is an expensive, maintenance intensive hobby

People delay or ignore preventative things on boat like they do to their cars because like Scott alludes to above, it is expensive to own even an inexpensive boat. That leads to all sorts of issues. To me, buying a used boat is much more difficult and expensive proposition than buying a new boat within reason if for no other reason you only need a pulse to get financing and a low monthly payment stretched out over several years and at least in the beginning, you have a warranty. Right, wrong or indifferent.
 

littlebunker

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....and when you say foam, you're talking about foam that's inside fiberglass? Like, they might carve a hull shape out of foam, and then fiberglass over that to make a boat?

This is different from floatation foam, correct?

How does one replace foam? that seems.... impossible haha
 

ondarvr

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The foam is the flotation foam.

Typically you need to gut a fiberglass boat to replace it, aluminum boats just need the floor removed. Well, it’s actually the same for both, but the floor in a glass boat requires cutting, grinding, glassing, etc. For aluminum you remove some screws and/or rivets.

Several weeks for glass, a couple of days for aluminum.
 

Scott Danforth

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....and when you say foam, you're talking about foam that's inside fiberglass? Like, they might carve a hull shape out of foam, and then fiberglass over that to make a boat?

This is different from floatation foam, correct?

How does one replace foam? that seems.... impossible haha

the flotation foam.

production fiberglass boat hulls and caps are made in molds just like tuperware

only prototype things may be carved from foam and fiberglassed over. the labor to do such a thing for production is cost prohibative
 

tpenfield

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Foam is used for structural strength and for flotation. Is is poured in the chambers within a boats structure below the deck and expands and cures to fill the chambers. When a boats structure rots because of water, usually the foam gets saturated as well even though it is initially water proof.

You can see how wet foam is removed from boats by cruising through some of the restoration threads on this forum.

Basically, a Bayliner is a low-end boat that was designed to last about 10 years. The 1980' are some of the most significant examples of the 10 year expected life.
 

Baylinerchuck

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My 1986 16' Bayliner Capri was no exception to all the posts stated above. I will say that the stringers were not plywood like a lot of other manufacturers so they survived water intrusion, as did the transom. I had to pull all the foam out below the deck and replace all the bulkheads though. I learned the hard way that boats rot from the bottom up. The deck on my boat was solid as a rock, but after I bought her I realized this was due to the second layer of plywood some jack wagon put on some years ago. The ugly stuff was hidden beneath plywood and carpet. It was a great project boat and one I cut my teeth on. Honestly my Bayliner got me into boating, gave me lots of family memories, and kept me entertained enough to want more. I really loved that old piece of fiberglass. Like already stated, just know when you buy an older boat, your gonna have some work to do. If you want to do it right, it will take lots of your time and some money. In the end, a Bayliner is not going to be much different than any other production boat of that era. If you click the link in my signature you'll see what you might find. My current project is a 1990 Chaparral.
 

littlebunker

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thanks everyone. I have been reading through some restoration threads and I see that the stringers are the major headache. If a boat was built with glass stringers, does this cut down on the amount of rot it might have? So, in purely simple terms, if a boat has glass stringers you may only need to pull up the floor, remove the old foam and put in new foam while the floor is up, and then put the floor back down?

Again, super simple, but I'm starting to think that glass stringers take away a big chunk of headache

thanks
 
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