Considering a Boat Upgrade - 23' Cuddy Cabin to...

[FlyingSeaRay]

We've had our '87 Sea Ray 230CC for about 2 years. It's been a great boat for us, and for what we do at the moment which is spend afternoons at the lake, eat dinner, pull the tube around, sometimes skiers. Lots of great memories in the 2 years we've had it.

We're talking about wanting to expand our horizons and get a boat that we could take a short (~1 week) vacation on and then also overnights at the lake when so desired. We're a family of 5 (three small kids - oldest turns 4 in October). The idea would be a boat that we could either take down the river (and then probably go back to retrieve) or tow someplace else like the Gulf and go travel around there, then tow back. We live in the Kansas City area, so we're right on the Missouri but have only boated on lakes at this point.

Constraints:

- Roughly $15k budget (some work required is fine, just depends on what exactly). This could go up a bit for the right boat, but probably not much at this point
- Must be trailerable without oversize permits by a 3/4 or 1-ton truck (we currently have a 1/2-ton that's marginal as-is, and would be upgrading as part of the deal)
- Ability to sleep the 5 of us in the cabin

Heat/AC would be nice, but it looks like not something that we'd get in boats of this range. In looking around, the mid 90s Sundancer 270s appeal to me. I generally like their layout and they meet the 8'6" beam requirement for not needing an oversize load. I wouldn't mind pushing my luck with a 9' beam boat, but not anything bigger. The late 80s Sundancer 268 is another option (and cheaper, always a plus), but I don't like the deck layout on those, I'd consider it a downgrade vs. our current deck setup.

Long term, we're considering doing "The Great Loop", but that is years off (if it ever happens) and we'd expect that to be a different boat, purchased specifically with the intent of longer term travel. The idea with this boat upgrade would be to "test the waters" before doing the loop, and get to do some more interesting vacations that would involve going places in a 1-2 week timeframe.

I'm also not necessarily tied to Sea Rays, but we've really loved ours thus far and browsing BoatTrader I like what I see of them. I don't know enough about the other boat brands to know what to consider, we more or less lucked out when we bought this boat initially.

A similar question would be if anyone has recommendations on destinations. The nice part of going down the Missouri river is it's right here, but it looks like there's a whole lot of nothing between here and St. Louis. Going to the Gulf sounds appealing, start off in Galveston (closest Gulf port to us) and then could either head east or west/south along the coast.

Thanks for any thoughts!

 

[Old Ironmaker]

The sticky at the top of this page about buying used is great. As far as sleeping over night I always dreamed of having a nice cruiser myself. That is until I watched a huge snake make it's way up the transom of a boat and into it followed by another and then a third snake. I hate snakes and I changed my mind real fast. Good luck.

 

[JoLin]

Hi, and welcome to iboats!

You have some challenges, not least of which is your price point. I think you're on the right track with an express cruiser in the 26 feet or so range, but (of course) make sure you have enough vehicle to pull it. You'll be getting up into the 9,000 - 10,000 pound range with trailer and gear.

Couple suggestions... make sure the boat has a full camper enclosure for the cockpit, and look for a boat with cockpit seating that one or more of the kids can use for a bed. If you're doing a week on the water with 3 kids, you want all the 'spreading out' room you can get, and having to break down the dinette every night to make a bed is a PITA. My wife and I had a 24' express without an enclosure, and it got claustrophobic for the 2 of us after 2 or 3 days.

I think you'll want a full marine head with a decent sized holding tank rather than the porta pottie or MSD arrangement found on many boats that size. Do you plan to cook on board? An alcohol-electric cooktop gives you the most flexibility.

Shop, shop, shop. Express cruisers in that size range are a dime a dozen. Make sure everyone can fit comfortably in whatever berth you want them to sleep in.

My .02

 

[airdvr1227]

Unfortunately I don't believe an upgrade to a 27' anything is going to work out for what you want to do in the future. As you've already found out a 23' cuddy is way too small for 5. Adding 4 feet won't solve the problem unless you find a way to stop your kids from growing. My advice is to keep the 23, enjoy tubing or water skis or fishing or whatever you are doing now. Rent a cabin on a lake where you can have your boat close by. If you stuff them all into a 27' eventually they won't want to go and you'll end up not enjoying boating. Just my $.02. YMMV

 

[FlyingSeaRay]

Some good points. Few questions and comments.

1) How difficult is it to break down the dinette as a bed at night? If that's too much of a pain, then that does significantly screw things up with the initial thoughts, as I figured one of the kids would sleep there (maybe 2).
2) I hadn't thought about the full camper enclosure, but that makes sense
3) Our kids are small now (twin girls under 2 and son under 4).

Right now our truck is inadequate for an upgrade (1/2-ton Avalanche). I used to own 3/4-ton diesels and have a couple hundred thousand miles of time towing big, heavy trailers. So I'm not worried about that.

There's also the intent of this boat. We're considering a boat that would basically be a stepping stone towards something bigger that we'd consider doing something like the great loop with and see what we think about living on a boat for any period of time. It's not about just a vacation that also involves boating - so renting a cottage with our boat next to it wouldn't fit the bill at all. However if the compromise would end up not doing any of the things we want well, we might be better off with just keeping this boat and renting a boat for vacations, or something like that. We wouldn't envision cooking on this boat, but would on a future boat that we'd live on for some extended period.

We don't have experience living on a boat or camping, so this is a new territory for us.

 

[alldodge]

My thought is if your enjoying your boat now, keep it. Boats cost a lot of money and the bigger the more money it will take. My wife and I enjoy out 27PC but we really don't need one that big for what we do, go out, float, drink beers, come back and fix dinner.

When my kids were growing up I used the heck out of my Rinker, tubes, ski, wake board and knee boards. There grown up and have families. So now when they come down we go float, drink and the rest. If the grand's want to get drug around we put the Rinker in.

A 27 footer is a great size to start staying out on the water when kids are young. When they get older, your going to need to look and 32 and above if you want to spend the nights out.

As for the great loop, your going to need some major bucks to do it, the fuel will cost more then a few thousand to do it alone, and I would suggest 30 feet or more for the ocean. Can get by with less if you stick to good days and inner costal

 

[FlyingSeaRay]

What we'd be looking at if we bought something would be more of an interim boat before an upgrade. The primary enablements would be overnights (at least for a few years), etc. Understood that we'd need to go bigger when they're older. The question is whether the upgrade that'd work today would even do the job. It seems like most of the answers are no, which may push us towards just keeping this boat (we want to redo the deck, which is already in the plans unless we sell it) and renting a bigger boat for our boat vacation idea.

 

[JoLin]

Some good points. Few questions and comments.

1) How difficult is it to break down the dinette as a bed at night? If that's too much of a pain, then that does significantly screw things up with the initial thoughts, as I figured one of the kids would sleep there (maybe 2).
2) I hadn't thought about the full camper enclosure, but that makes sense
3) Our kids are small now (twin girls under 2 and son under 4).

Right now our truck is inadequate for an upgrade (1/2-ton Avalanche). I used to own 3/4-ton diesels and have a couple hundred thousand miles of time towing big, heavy trailers. So I'm not worried about that.

There's also the intent of this boat. We're considering a boat that would basically be a stepping stone towards something bigger that we'd consider doing something like the great loop with and see what we think about living on a boat for any period of time. It's not about just a vacation that also involves boating - so renting a cottage with our boat next to it wouldn't fit the bill at all. However if the compromise would end up not doing any of the things we want well, we might be better off with just keeping this boat and renting a boat for vacations, or something like that. We wouldn't envision cooking on this boat, but would on a future boat that we'd live on for some extended period.

We don't have experience living on a boat or camping, so this is a new territory for us.

It isn't that breaking down the dinette is a really big deal, but it gets old. You're always moving stuff around, and nobody has a place to sit when it's in use. Not so bad If you have a cockpit enclosure, At least you have another 'room' you can use to escape from the cabin

When I read your post and comments about doing the great loop someday, I figured this would be an interim boat. I think it's a good way to get a feel for living aboard. Even if the 'grand plan' never comes to fruition, it'll still build great memories for you and the kids. Life's short and life changes unexpectedly. Do what you can while you can.

My .02

 

[FlyingSeaRay]

I appreciate the thoughts. I think the next step at this point is to check out a few of the boats we might consider and see what we think of them for the potential. I know that the price point will make it more difficult, and might require travel to make it happen. Given that we do like our current boat, it may end up making more sense to just do the work we want to it, and rent. I just have a hard time spending the ~$3k for a one week rental of something when I could put that money towards an upgrade, but sometimes that makes more sense.

 

[Mischief Managed]

I think a 26'+ express would work, if you have full, stand-up camper canvas. My wife and I have done a few multi-night trips on our 25 foot cuddy and the camper canvas is what makes it not just possible, but downright comfortable. The cockpit turns into a comfy "living room" in the evenings.

 

[FlyingSeaRay]

One question for the experienced parents. My wife is concerned about the kids (specifically our 3 almost 4 year old son) waking up at night and trying to crawl off the boat. He's been wanting to camp out on the lake with me. Personally I'm not too concerned about it because with our current boat, he and I would be sleeping in the cuddy cabin area and I'd keep the door closed and latched. So I think the probability of him waking up and trying to crawl out without me is low, plus he very strongly wants us on the back with him when he's kicking his feet in the water.

Any thoughts?