New vs. Used?

[diveman05]

I've always bought used due to budget reasons. Overall a well maintained boat used is just as good as a new one I feel.

I do always have that devil on my shoulder though that watches the countless stupid stuff other boaters do and think to myself this is why I don't want a used boat and the price of a new boat is worth it to know it has always been taken care of properly. I guess I have trust issues with my toys

 

[mtrainTurbo]

I finance boats, because I have to. If you are the person who pays cash for things, well...you and I won't agree.

But let's take a new boat at $35,000, and a used boat at $20,000.

The used boat at 4.5% interest for 10 years (we're assuming a 20 foot premium bowrider that is about 4 years old) comes in around $215 a month. (I am using round numbers that maybe off by $15 a month or so...)

The new boat can be pushed out to 15 years, has the same interest rate, and if you put a couple grand down to get ahead of depreciation (which, after 3 boats, I can tell you is not that much of a concern if you are in the northern latitudes and put your boat away for the winter), want to guess how much a new boat is? About $250 a month.

To me, the warranty alone justifies the upcharge. That's why I hear some people in this thread saying "always buy used" and I really think you're turning a blind eye to details.

Let's say you put money down on the used boat and the payment drops $30 a month, making the delta $65 a month. Is that enough of a difference to say the used boat was worth it? What if you have to fix something big? The delta shrinks even more.

I leave that as an open question. But to me, I know what I want, I know how long I intend to keep it, and I know I don't beat my boats up. I think I'd rather have the new boat.

But that's me.

 

[oldjeep]

I finance boats, because I have to. If you are the person who pays cash for things, well...you and I won't agree.

But let's take a new boat at $35,000, and a used boat at $20,000.

The used boat at 4.5% interest for 10 years (we're assuming a 20 foot premium bowrider that is about 4 years old) comes in around $215 a month. (I am using round numbers that maybe off by $15 a month or so...)

The new boat can be pushed out to 15 years, has the same interest rate, and if you put a couple grand down to get ahead of depreciation (which, after 3 boats, I can tell you is not that much of a concern if you are in the northern latitudes and put your boat away for the winter), want to guess how much a new boat is? About $250 a month.

To me, the warranty alone justifies the upcharge. That's why I hear some people in this thread saying "always buy used" and I really think you're turning a blind eye to details.

Let's say you put money down on the used boat and the payment drops $30 a month, making the delta $65 a month. Is that enough of a difference to say the used boat was worth it? What if you have to fix something big? The delta shrinks even more.

I leave that as an open question. But to me, I know what I want, I know how long I intend to keep it, and I know I don't beat my boats up. I think I'd rather have the new boat.

But that's me.

FWIW, a used boat can be pushed out to 15 or even 20 years depending on how old it is. 4.5% isn't really even a good rate for a used boat loan.

New vs old is a complicated decision that depends on availability in used market, theoretical depreciation and so on. Cash vs finance is a whole other decision.

My current boat was bought 2 years old (and financed). Previous boat was bought brand new for around 13K, kept for 9 years and sold for about 3K less than I paid for it brand new. Depreciation is one of those funny things that you need to look at in conjunction with the overall year to year price increases in the market.

 

[bruceb58]

Comparing monthly payments on two loans that are different lengths is foolish. Compare the total cost of the loan including interest is what you need to do.

A $20K loan for 10 years is going to be $207/month with a total of $24,873
A $30K loan over 15 years is going to be a $229/monthly payment with a total of $41,300.
This assumes 4.5% interest.
As you can see, the monthly payment means nothing!

If you can't pay cash for a toy, you can't afford the toy.

 

[thumpar]

Comparing monthly payments on two loans that are different lengths is foolish. Compare the total cost of the loan including interest is what you need to do.

A $20K loan for 10 years is going to be $207/month with a total of $24,873
A $30K loan over 15 years is going to be a $229/monthly payment with a total of $41,300.
This assumes 4.5% interest.

If you can't pay cash for a toy, you can't afford the toy.

Yea, just because the payment is close doesn't mean the total price is that much less. You don't go by payment, you go by price.

 

[bruceb58]

Yea, just because the payment is close doesn't mean the total price is that much less. You don't go by payment, you go by price.

That's the standard game that sales people use all the time!

 

[thumpar]

That's the standard game that sales people use all the time!

Yep. I know a few. Some lots will list the price as the payment on the windows and not how much it really is.

 

[frantically relaxing]

If you can't pay cash for a toy, you can't afford the toy.

Ummm...

In addition to the boats, we also own a Harley, a Goldwing Aspencade, a 40' Allegro Diesel pusher, two Mustang GT convertibles, 3 ATV's, plus various 'non-toy' vehicles... I don't remember paying cash for any of them, and most are now paid for. What helps is being smart enough to know how much money I have to make payments with. And in 4 years I can semi-retire (which suits me fine), and everything I still owe money on will be paid for, and won't have to worry about having enough money to buy the toys I want for retirement-- Already got 'em!! --and this was totally on purpose... Do you realize what an enormous benefit it's been, HAVING all these toys and ENJOYING them for several years already?

I don't know about anyone else, but I only get one shot on this planet, and paying interest in cash and enjoying life beats the daylights out of paying interest in sheer boredom and days lost before I'm dead, wasted on trying to save money to pay cash for my hobbies

 

[jbcurt00]

AWESOME ADVICE! you guys rock ! :rockon:

Now next question,
IF I do buy used, what boats and motors should I avoid?
Someone was telling me like with tracker there was a certain year they changed there welding techniques and to avoid anything that's older than 2006??

Here's a list of my dream boat: (I'm a walleye fisherman in North Dakota)
Aluminum Deep -v
16' - 18'
Walkthrough windshield,
Side Counsel
75hp -120hp Merc. or Yamaha Preferably 4 stroke (I don't like mixing oil)

any advice on things I should look for or certain years, models, I should avoid due to defects or recalls?

Focus fellas, Carver didnt ask for an economics lesson or to debate the choice of finance.or not to finance based on the costs associated w borrowing money.

 

[ccarver80]

:focus:

Carver asked about what to avoid and look for. There are a few favorite brands in tin boats ... but really condition is the big key. I would watch out for a few outboards (old Electric Shift OMC outboards, Force, Chrysler) but only in that they require an understanding of what you're getting into. Buncha' guys keep all of those running for a long time.

Seeing anything intriguing on the web? Post the links and the gang will give you more opinions than you might want. (I'd start a new topic for that though)

Thanks South!
Here's my next situation I'm kicking around in my head, I do have a 16' 1972 Crestliner with a 25hp johnson... it works nice for small dams ....but I never fish small damns... I'm thinking with trolling motor and transducer for Lowrance included... I can get $900-$1000 (comparing to local prices for small aluminum boats)

If I'm lucky to get that here is my idea, I've found a few project boats for around $1,000 - 1,500...

With the new baby this year, I'm thinking I'm not going to be fishing much anyways and it might be a good summer to try and fix something up.

I bought the boat I have now in pretty rough shape for $500, put in new water pump spark plugs and redid some other stuff on the motor... I'm technically incline with your guys help...

Idk yet I'm still kicking ideas around but after all the comments about kids and used boats I'm definitely stared away from buying new thanks guys!

 

[ccarver80]

Focus fellas, Carver didnt ask for an economics lesson or to debate the choice of finance.or not to finance based on the costs associated w borrowing money.

Also thanKS jbcurt! I didn't mean for this to get into a huge debate! Haha but for sure going used ... it's all about the memories and I won't be so mad when they spill tear or ding something in my boat haha

 

[ccarver80]

No Title

To give you a quick idea on boats here 3 I found roughly in my budget if I sell the one I have now

 

[jkust]

Maybe a little bit different take on things. I have become extremely sensitive to paying taxes whereby taxes are my biggest expense every year taking over 50% of my income. In my state, there are no sales taxes payable on used boats bought from a private party or a brokerage transaction. Dealers, however, must collect sales taxes. What ends up happening here in MN where there are so many lakes and everyone wants a boat, is that they buy them, don't use them and sell them in a few years in many case without even break in hours completed yet they depreciate like crazy. So you get to buy what is essentially a new boat for a substantial discount plus not pay our over 7% sales tax. It's the same for 4 wheelers for example where my last wheeler I bought was two years old and almost never driven but paid a substantial discount and of course no dealer fees or sales taxes. Unfortunately that isn't the case with cars where you pay taxes at the dmv when you buy a used car from a private party.

 

[garbageguy]

To give you a quick idea on boats here 3 I found roughly in my budget if I sell the one I have now

If these represent where you are on your boat budget, I don't think new is even a consideration. Unless you, or someone you trust, has a lot of experience with older fiberglass boats, and assessing their condition - you may want to lean towards tin (aluminum)

 

[sublauxation]

Debating this same thing as my wife wants me to buy a new boat. Maybe my rationale will help, if not I apologize for the long rant:joyous:

5-6K: Most of what I see is just shy of rotten junk being held together only by it's carpet.

10-15K: I can find a decent 10-12 year old boat that is 5 or 6 years away from rotting out. Maybe with good care it would get another 10 years, I don't know.

25-30K is the price range I was looking in new.

For a couple grand if you're handy you can take a 1980's boat and do a lot with it. $6-8K will buy you a nice new outboard or darned close to it.

The key is to find the right hull at the right price. I have an 80's hull I'm redoing that I got for a couple hundred bucks but last year I looked at a late 90's boat for 3K that had a much better hull. The owner told me he was raising the price to 5K after I left, he even had a sign with that price next to it along the road. It outwardly looked nice but everything wood was rotten. I had the cash in hand but didn't think it was worth more than 2K so I decided to wait him out. He sold it a week later for 5K.

Now the problem with redoing a boat: I tore mine down to the bare hull last spring, then got busy and didn't touch it again. I bought some kayaks just so we could hit the water a couple times but it's hard to tube behind a kayak!

 

[thumpar]

Debating this same thing as my wife wants me to buy a new boat. Maybe my rationale will help, if not I apologize for the long rant:joyous:

5-6K: Most of what I see is just shy of rotten junk being held together only by it's carpet.

10-15K: I can find a decent 10-12 year old boat that is 5 or 6 years away from rotting out. Maybe with good care it would get another 10 years, I don't know.

25-30K is the price range I was looking in new.

For a couple grand if you're handy you can take a 1980's boat and do a lot with it. $6-8K will buy you a nice new outboard or darned close to it.

The key is to find the right hull at the right price. I have an 80's hull I'm redoing that I got for a couple hundred bucks but last year I looked at a late 90's boat for 3K that had a much better hull. The owner told me he was raising the price to 5K after I left, he even had a sign with that price next to it along the road. It outwardly looked nice but everything wood was rotten. I had the cash in hand but didn't think it was worth more than 2K so I decided to wait him out. He sold it a week later for 5K.

Now the problem with redoing a boat: I tore mine down to the bare hull last spring, then got busy and didn't touch it again. I bought some kayaks just so we could hit the water a couple times but it's hard to tube behind a kayak!

I don't know where you live but here it is different. I bought my last boat for $2300. It was solid. 7 years after I bought it I sold it for $100 more than I bought it for. My current boat is solid and has the EFI motor and Bravo drive. I could probably get close to what I paid for the boat back by just selling the engine/drive setup. The boats out there you just have to look.

 

[bruceb58]

Not sure where you guys are that think boats hold their value so well. My brother bought a 26' Formula in 2005. It was 5 years old at the time. He paid $35k for a boat that sold new for over $90K. This boat was in perfect condition. He did drive to Texas to get it from CA. Was a fresh water boat only.

 

[Frag]

Ironically, I am debating that subject in my head for over a month ? so I naturally read this thread entirely. I cannot afford to pay cash for a new or used boat in the price range that I am looking for. I want a 21? open deck with not too much trouble to play around with my kids (9 and 13 years old).

You will understand that I want to buy now because I live right beside the lake and that my kids are at the age of following me around during the summer. I know that in 4-5 years from now, they will have their own life and that their friends will see them more than I will. So I want a boat now to enjoy it with my kids while they are here, not in 5 years when I?ll be all by myself.

So this being said ? I can easily afford a monthly payment and I will. Like some people explained earlier in this thread, the monthly cost for me will be mostly similar (but on a longer period for a new boat). I am not completely done with the process and for SURE I am more seduced by a new boat.

But here is the conclusion I made:

Since it is my first boat, I will buy it lightly used to avoid too many issues. Up here in Canada, it will also save me the sales tax. If, in few years from now, I still enjoy boating ? then the acquired experience will dictate me what I really want and will upgrade for a brand new one. At least then, I will not feel bad doing it and I will know that I did not buy on a head rush.

 

[thumpar]

...

But here is the conclusion I made:

Since it is my first boat, I will buy it lightly used to avoid too many issues. Up here in Canada, it will also save me the sales tax. If, in few years from now, I still enjoy boating … then the acquired experience will dictate me what I really want and will upgrade for a brand new one. At least then, I will not feel bad doing it and I will know that I did not buy on a head rush.

Used for your first boat is a good idea. If you do enjoy boating your first boat will likely be the boat that you figure out exactly what you want in your next boat. I had my boat for 7 years and in that time knew exactly what I wanted in my next boat. That is my current boat and have no plans to change anything.

If you did end up selling the used boat because you are not into it or don't use it enough there is not a huge decline in resale. If you bought new and sold it you would be taking a big hit.

 

[jkust]

Not sure where you guys are that think boats hold their value so well. My brother bought a 26' Formula in 2005. It was 5 years old at the time. He paid $35k for a boat that sold new for over $90K. This boat was in perfect condition. He did drive to Texas to get it from CA. Was a fresh water boat only.

The bigger the boat, the larger the percentage depreciation. Here in MN, so few lakes can accept a larger cruiser practically, that you can get amazing deals on large, low usage, few year old, cruisers as the market is just so small. A sub 20 foot boat that fits in a standard garage has a massively larger group of potential buyers and the prices don't drop as fast. Other than the shift to pontoons that has been happening these last few years, people don't buy much larger boats, the just move up the scale of amenities and build quality because they have to fit in the garage given our extreme winters in northern MN where the cabins are located.