Kevlar Hull? and other questions about a used boat I'm looking at.

[sublauxation]

My dad has a winter place in FL and is looking for a decent boat he can use in the Cape Coral/Fort Myers area. It wont get used much so he doesn't want to spend a lot. I lurk a lot on here but this fiberglass thing is still pretty foreign to me and even more to my dad.

I came across this 1979 Hydra Sport for sale and it looks to fit our needs perfectly.

The owner claims it's a Kevlar hull but from my research it looks like it's actually an added layer of Kevlar over the glass on the inside. It was an expensive option for the day but since nobody talks about that on new boats is it something to actually be worried about? He says he "redid" the boat and I don't have all the details yet but he told me he had the console off and gas tank out and that the stringers underneath were all in great shape.

Another concern, it has a newer 125 merc with 50 hours on it, he said the dealer had it sitting in storage unused for 12 years.

Aside from the obvious red flags of "that makes no sense" what are your thoughts on a new, unused outboard sitting for that long. He's put the 50 hours on in 3 seasons. By the time I could get down to look at it the lakes will be frozen so aside from a compression test and hopefully listening to it run is there anything else to look at? Are there any problems with using a non salt water specific outboard in salt. It will be trailered so flushing it after each use wouldn't be a problem.

Any thoughts on what this thing would actually be worth?

Thanks for any and all info!

 

[Dave-R]

I have a Cobalt 226 and they are proud to display a little emblem that says the hull is reinforced with Kevlar. But I think there is probably a few layers in a few strategic spots and that it is not a big strength factor at all. On the outboard, if it looks good, has been stored right, and runs good, and it checks out I would not be afraid of the 12 year storage. Condition is the most important part for me. I thought all outboards were okay for the salt water? Dave R

 

[tpenfield]

Kevlar is/was a marketing fad that you do not hear much about these days. Since not much Kevlar was used in the hull (typically) any benefit of stronger materials is probably minimal.

An engine that has sat for 12 years would be a risk, but not a show stopper. You would just want to do more in the inspection process to be certain it was fine.

In Florida, boats like the one you showed are more than plentiful, so my advice would be to compre this boat to other boats that may also be to your liking.

 

[sublauxation]

Three things in my mind separate this boat from others, for better or worse.
1) It's up hear so I can look at it, my dad isn't the best at those type things and I fear he'd buy a total pile of crap if left to his own devices. At least this one I can look at as well.
2) The outboard, it's an 02 and from pics it definitely looks like it only has 50 hours on it. I know that doesn't mean anything but most of what I've looked at has an early 1990's outboard and that scares me. Maybe it shouldn't?
3) Price, this seems priced high depending on how much value you can put on that Merc.

I'd pay a bit of a premium if I can look at it myself but he's asking $6800 which seems high to me. I'm still waiting on his emails as to what was done in the resto.

 

[ondarvr]

The price is high, and the risk of rotten stringers and transom is also high, so without a complete and thorough inspection it would be a costly and risky purchase.

The motor should be fine, and can be easily checked, so that's a plus.

The "kevlar" option is meaningless and of no value.

 

[sublauxation]

I wasn't as worried about Kevlar having value as much as worried about it being a bad thing. His resto was pretty limited as it turns out to the fuel system and some aesthetics. He says it sat on a covered lift all summer and inside a garage all winter. If I proceed I'll definitely check the stringers and transom.

As to the outboard, aside from compression anything to look at specifically? My worry was with it sitting dray like that, maybe seals would dry out?

I've looked at a lot of 4K boats online in FL and that gets a rough looking 90's boat with an early 90's outboard. I've only checked Craigslist so far.

Any thoughts on a realistic price for this if it does check out?

 

[ondarvr]

Th only negative to the kevlar is it's very difficult to grind and/or cut, so depending on where it's located it can create a hassle if you need to do much work on it. Typically they only used a very small amount of kevlar in the build, just enough to say it's there, so it may be of no concern.

Being a 1979 is the issue, it's had a very long time to develop problems even if it was well cared for.

Price is always based on the local market, a good price in one area can be a terrible one elsewhere.

 

[sublauxation]

I asked about the transom and stringers and he says that without taking up the console there's no way to see the stringers, and also no way to see the transom wood. Any thoughts on that?

Here's his line on the transom: The transom had a soft spot on the top starboard side so I removed the wet wood and poured epoxy in and had the stainless cap and plate made. There is absolutely no flex in the transom it's very strong.

As to price, this is one of 3 roughly 18 foot glass center consoles I found in a 300 mile radius so it will be hard to go by that.

NADA puts the boat at $1500 and the Merc at $2500 (both top end prices. I'm assuming a 00 with 50 verified hours would be worth a bit more. Add in what looks to be a nice roller trailer and it comes to about $5K. Does that sound reasonable?

 

[ondarvr]

Now that you have confirmed the transom has started to rot, rot isn't stopped by pouring epoxy on it, it just fills the void where there was once good wood, the rest of the transom will still continue to rot. When the transom is beginning to rot it normally means the stringers are in about the same shape, or at least headed down the same road.

To be honest and blunt, the boat most likely needs a total gut and rebuild, new stringers, foam and transom, at least that's what you need to figure on when making the purchase. Start reading threads here on "soft spot" or "transom rot", virtually every one of them starts out as "I have this small soft spot, what can I do to fix it?".

The next post is saying they started to remove the small soft spot and now the enitre boat is ripped apart because the rotten wood was everywhere.

 

[metriccrescentwrench]

......The transom had a soft spot on the top starboard side so I removed the wet wood and poured epoxy in and had the stainless cap and plate made. There is absolutely no flex in the transom it's very strong.

You can't possibly run away from that boat fast enough. A serious problem was detected and not properly repaired. I've rebuilt 3 boats now so have a little bit of experience with boat construction..... the only way that boat's ever going to be any good is with a complete transom rebuild. And of course the stringers are a total question mark.

 

[sublauxation]

We emailed back and forth 4 or 5 times and he kept saying how solid and well cared for the boat was so I called and we talked for about 20 minutes. He seemed like a really honest guy who knows a lot about boats. He assured me all the wood was solid, then told about all the prop experimenting he did, then he got into the trim tabs vs whale tail experiments to get it running optimal. Then the conversation turned to the rod holders the previous owner had removed before selling it and how he finally covered over the big holes that left with stainless to "stop all the water from coming in" and how he reinforced the area around the transom tie downs with stainless because they were a bit soft and how their were some soft spots he found around the motor mounting holes when he swapped out the motor, and it just kept getting worse.

At this point I was just trying to be nice so I asked about price and he's not budging because a guy is talking about driving up from Florida (to Wisconsin) to buy it.

It was pretty disappointing all in all. I guess the key to this is, keep them talking until eventually they start telling the truth.

 

[sublauxation]

He still insists the entire hull is Kevlar and not just some patches. I'm guessing that isn't true either.

 

[David Young]

Shoot it and see for yourself. If the bullets bounce off...........its Kevlar.............Just joking

 

[tpenfield]

Just google ' hydra sports Kevlar ' and you will get all kinds of threads from various sites about the boat, etc.

Also, is seems like there is hydra-sport and hydrasports custom. Probably 2 different manufacturers with slightly different names :noidea:

The Kevlar is related to the hydrasports custom line.

I agree that if a soft spot was repaired in an isolated fashion, there is no guarantee of keeping the problem isolated. So, you would really need to inspect the boat for signs of rot or high moisture to be sure. Keep in mind that the seller will give you the most positive spin on things. It is your job to see the not-so-positive spin.

 

[Frank Acampora]

Oh, Come ON! You don't need us to tell you to run away. The guy is insisting that all the wood is sound with only a few soft spots around the engine mounting holes and transom eyes! This is the same guy that insisted his wife was only slightly pregnant

 

[sublauxation]

Yeah, I ran away. He was so insistent for so long about how solid it was with no soft spots, and he even continued saying that while telling me about all the soft spots. Turns out it's also a 17.5", not the 18.5 he first told me it was.

Thanks Turns out it is a Hydra Sports custom not hydrasport so it is a Kevlar hull, he had that part right.Thanks Tpenfield, that explains why I wasn't finding anything about this model.

Thanks for the push in the right direction. This glass thing is new and I'm considering finding an 18" aluminum hull and converting it to a nice center console to leave down there.

 

[ondarvr]

He still insists the entire hull is Kevlar and not just some patches. I'm guessing that isn't true either.

There could be a layer of kevlar in the hull, some were made that way, but it would just be one layer, and still of little benefit. Kevlar was a big thing when it first started being used in boats, but it's of limited value. It is very abrasion resistant, but this means the gel coat and skin coat needs to be worn away before it would get to the kevlar. It can also be very puncture resistant, the laminate is normally destroyed, but the kevlar hangs in there. It isn't very good in compression, but is great under tension, so being used on the inside of the hull (or core) is a good place for it, you loose the abrasion properties in this location tough. Another issue is that it can absorb water, this may or may not be an issue depending where and how it's used. Repairing it can be difficult, it is difficult to cut and it becomes very fuzzy when you sand it.

Most builders don't use it because the limited benefits don't outweigh the hassle and cost for a production boat.