Lead core, planers or downriggers-Which do you use and why?

[ebry710]

As I sent up my whaler for trolling on Lake Sonoma (and later SF Bay), I come up against the problem of keeping my bait down. An experienced fishing buddy of mine showed me how to set up my level line with lead core. He said it was the best.

Reading this Forum though, I am starting to understand the planers and downriggers can also be used.

So my friends, can as many as you explain to me which and why you used lead core, planers and/or downriggers? and if there are other depth controlling methods for trolling then these three.

 

[Mark_VTfisherman]

Re: Lead core, planers or downriggers-Which do you use and why?

As I sent up my whaler for trolling on Lake Sonoma (and later SF Bay), I come up against the problem of keeping my bait down. An experienced fishing buddy of mine showed me how to set up my level line with lead core. He said it was the best.

Reading this Forum though, I am starting to understand the planers and downriggers can also be used.

So my friends, can as many as you explain to me which and why you used lead core, planers and/or downriggers? and if there are other depth controlling methods for trolling then these three.

Hey- good thoughts to develop! I used lead core and downriggers many times this year. I've used dipsy divers for years with variable success.

Basically, lead core is an excellent way to make certain presentations. The lead core keeps a nice track in the water, sort of snaking behind the boat's path instead of "hinging" at the rod tip and running (somewhat) straight from there. So it's good for chasing contours at depth with a lot of set-back from the boat. You can run 35' down with about 270 yards out which makes for a long reel-up, but it has helped me catch fish when the downrigger and dipsies won't produce.

You can run planers with lead core if you want to run to the side as well.

Downriggers seem to work well for Lakers and sometimes Salmon, but I am still developing that.

Mark

 

[rightcoastrob]

Re: Lead core, planers or downriggers-Which do you use and why?

Planer boards get your bait out off to the sides of the boat.Excelent when you have spooky fish in clear water also planer boards will only reach a certian depth and can be a bit tricky in rough water.It all depends on the depths your fishing as to what method will suit your needs best.Alll i maily do is open water trolling with dipsey divers.There a diving disk that will go deeper depending on how much line you let you.Plus u can make them track off to the sides like planer boards.There cheap to run i call them poor mans down riggers.But i have great results with my set up also a line counting reel is just as important so it takes moth the guessing out of it trolling is a science no matter what body of water your fishing.I dont run lead core wire myself i prefer single straind stainless steel wire in the 15 lb range it slices through the water nice.down riggers are also nice becuse they will get you right back down to the same depth that you was just at and there fairly simple to use.Planer boards can be a lil tricky at first.Well at least on lake erie if your not in 3 ft chop its calm so conditions efffect those alot.The dipsey divers are the cheapest set up and the simplest to use.And all lines come into play.The right line is key for trolling if you have out 200 foot of mono and set the hook you will never get a hook set due to strech.Braided has very lil strech and is tough and is user freindly.Wire line have no strech what so ever they cut the water better in turn gets you deeper with less line.Its not very user freindly tho but if you know how to set up a baitcaster or as i like to call them ratnesters you shouldnt have no problems.This info just is a tiny lil tidbit of the big picture.

 

[rolmops]

Re: Lead core, planers or downriggers-Which do you use and why?

I use dipsy divers,stainless steel,leadcore and down riggers.
Dipsy divers are used to get the bait down and to the side of the boat.I mostly use superbraids with dipsies. A Penn Senator on a Penn Black Saber with carboloid guides is used right behind the boat using stainless I can go down to 50 foot at 2.8 miles per hour(600feet).
Leadcore(27#) I use to get down to 90 feet with 300 feet out at 1.7 mph and down to 110 feet with 500 feet out. I love doing this with live bait.
Down riggers are for deep down but close by the boat with mono line.
Just remember that lead core and steel and for that matter dacron and most super braids have no stretch at all.I use them all with a fluorocarbon leader that has no stretch either.

 

[dingbat]

Re: Lead core, planers or downriggers-Which do you use and why?

In-line weights. braided line and planer boards

http://www.tidalfish.com/Saltwater_Articles/p2_articleid/445
http://reelcrabby.com/trolling_depths_guide.htm

 

[rightcoastrob]

Re: Lead core, planers or downriggers-Which do you use and why?

I use dipsy divers,stainless steel,leadcore and down riggers.
Dipsy divers are used to get the bait down and to the side of the boat.I mostly use superbraids with dipsies. A Penn Senator on a Penn Black Saber with carboloid guides is used right behind the boat using stainless I can go down to 50 foot at 2.8 miles per hour(600feet).
Leadcore(27#) I use to get down to 90 feet with 300 feet out at 1.7 mph and down to 110 feet with 500 feet out. I love doing this with live bait.
Down riggers are for deep down but close by the boat with mono line.
Just remember that lead core and steel and for that matter dacron and most super braids have no stretch at all.I use them all with a fluorocarbon leader that has no stretch either.

600foot wow i though 250+was fun to crank in lol.What ya fishing for in those depths?And here i though my 70+ was pretty deep it is to the inland boaters.There is also another book out called PRECISION TROLLING PRO EDITION - v 1.0 I belive its all water proof spiral bound and they update it each year with the new pages and they have a cheaper version also.Your best bet to learn is to ask around a lil bit.Now around here the walleye fishermen are pretty tightlipped with info so i take it all with a grain of salt lol.I expensive .I took notes from many sites and compaired them all and went from there.

 

[ebry710]

Re: Lead core, planers or downriggers-Which do you use and why?

.Now around here the walleye fishermen are pretty tightlipped with info so i take it all with a grain of salt lol.I expensive .I took notes from many sites and compaired them all and went from there.

I think fisherman for the most part are tight lipped about details. Here though I seem to get a lot of good info. I do plan to look at "PRECISION TROLLING PRO EDITION - v 1.0" on your recommendation. Sometimes though you have to become knowledge enough to be able to ask the right questions.

 

[rolmops]

Re: Lead core, planers or downriggers-Which do you use and why?

600foot wow i though 250+was fun to crank in lol.What ya fishing for in those depths?And here i though my 70+ was pretty deep it is to the inland boaters.There is also another book out called PRECISION TROLLING PRO EDITION - v 1.0 I belive its all water proof spiral bound and they update it each year with the new pages and they have a cheaper version also.Your best bet to learn is to ask around a lil bit.Now around here the walleye fishermen are pretty tightlipped with info so i take it all with a grain of salt lol.I expensive .I took notes from many sites and compaired them all and went from there.

In the Finger Lakes,NY by June,the lake trout retreat to 80/90 feet depth and by August you will find them in over 100 feet of water.These are usually the 28 inch plus fish.
While fishing in Lake Ontario you will have to go down to where the fish are (salmon and steelhead),which dependent on water temperature can be anywhere between 5 feet to 250 feet down.

 

[rightcoastrob]

Re: Lead core, planers or downriggers-Which do you use and why?

In the Finger Lakes,NY by June,the lake trout retreat to 80/90 feet depth and by August you will find them in over 100 feet of water.These are usually the 28 inch plus fish.
While fishing in Lake Ontario you will have to go down to where the fish are (salmon and steelhead),which dependent on water temperature can be anywhere between 5 feet to 250 feet down.

I took the ole boat out in a snow storm 2 days ago bout 30 foot of visability wind chill was about 20 tops and trolled in about 18 fow flatlining 2 spoons with inline weights and two purple plugs matuza brand for steelhead and the action was nonestop bunch of 22,s to 26,s i bet we landed 15 and lost least 5 or so in 2 hours.But at any rate i ment to ask you about the leadcore line i was wondering how much id need out to get me to about 40 fow.Maybe you could let me know what brand your useing I,m not really into useing real heavy tackle unless its for money i like to give the fish a chance and not just winch them in.A 15 or 20 lb fish would probably be tops on lake erie altho i did have something bend a 10 foot dipsey diver rod right down into the water due to inproper drag setting it pulled my ballbearing swivel apart i woulda though the 20 lb flurocarbon leader would of poped.I was just starting to learn at that time and it was one of my first strikes.Taught me right then and there to check every drag everytime.Live and learn...

 

[rolmops]

Re: Lead core, planers or downriggers-Which do you use and why?

I took the ole boat out in a snow storm 2 days ago bout 30 foot of visability wind chill was about 20 tops and trolled in about 18 fow flatlining 2 spoons with inline weights and two purple plugs matuza brand for steelhead and the action was nonestop bunch of 22,s to 26,s i bet we landed 15 and lost least 5 or so in 2 hours.But at any rate i ment to ask you about the leadcore line i was wondering how much id need out to get me to about 40 fow.Maybe you could let me know what brand your useing I,m not really into useing real heavy tackle unless its for money i like to give the fish a chance and not just winch them in.A 15 or 20 lb fish would probably be tops on lake erie altho i did have something bend a 10 foot dipsey diver rod right down into the water due to inproper drag setting it pulled my ballbearing swivel apart i woulda though the 20 lb flurocarbon leader would of poped.I was just starting to learn at that time and it was one of my first strikes.Taught me right then and there to check every drag everytime.Live and learn...

Lead core fishing is almost like stealth fishing.The trick is to create a "safe" distance between your noisy boat and the bait.The live bait I like to use is pulled slowly through or near schools of bait fish so it closely resembles natural presentation.
Using side imaging you can go around a school of bait and then you straighten out in order to pull your bait through the school while never having disturbed the school.That is why I like to use 300 to 600 feet of line.
You can get leadcore in 12#15# 18#27# 36# and 45# thickness.The 12 and 15 carry the same amount of lead per foot,as do 18 and 27,the same is also true in 36 and 45.This means that the 27 pound,because of its larger diameter, will ride much higher in the water column than 18
As for "giving the fish a chance",consider this.A fish with 10 or 15 yards of line hanging out of its mouth,possibly getting caught on structure,will probably have a lower chance of survival than a fish that has been caught and then released with only a wound,but no extra "luggage" which it would have to drag around.So I can appreciate the sportsman like idea,but it seems a bit misplaced.
For deep walleye the 18# is fine,for a serious steelhead in the 20+ range 27 pounds would be my choice and for 40 foot of water at 2mph I would let out 5 to 6 colors which makes between 150 and 180 feet of line

 

[rightcoastrob]

Re: Lead core, planers or downriggers-Which do you use and why?

Well i apprciate your info and ill deffinatly take a look into the leadcore line..I,d like to compile all this line info and post it up on here for others its a learning curve.I,m pretty fimilar with the dipsey divers and how much line and what kinds of line u need to reach certian depths.And i also apprciate your concern for the fish.I am the same way altho the walleye i catch i do eat but everything else is c/r.Like i said ive only had one break off the one time and that was all on me with a bad drag settting and thankfully theres not much structure in lake erie its pretty much an open plain.But again thanks for the info.And sorry to hijack this thread

 

[Mark_VTfisherman]

Re: Lead core, planers or downriggers-Which do you use and why?

...i meant to ask you about the leadcore line i was wondering how much id need out to get me to about 40 fow.Maybe you could let me know what brand your using I,m not really into using real heavy tackle...

I commented once, but here is some more:

I run 18# Mason line. Like most leadcore, it is a different color every 30 feet. I run it on an Okuma level wind line counter reel (the only reel I own that isn't a spinning reel) and matched Okuma rod. It's wound over several hundred feet of 20-pound Stren braided backer. I have never had all 100 yards of lead out yet.

I calculate about 5 feet of depth for every color (30 feet) of line I let out. In actual use, I have found that the first two colors run shallower than that, and at 4 colors (120 feet) out, I can feel -or get hung up on - humps 20 feet down, but when they show on the graph, a quick reel-up to 100 on the line counter keeps me from fouling. Sometimes I just lift the rod in the air, and I am getting confident with that, but I don't have silver-lined pockets so most often I reel up quick and scared-like!

Leadcore will run higher in the water column at a faster running speed. Alternatively, creeping at 1 mph or under, and/or turning has found the bottom for me in 60 feet of water when I thought I was only 40' down. Part of the reason is that it takes a little while for the leadcore to settle down to its equilibrium running depth at a given speed, and if you are running slow, sometimes a breeze or making a turn is like stopping relative to the water, and there you go.

All in all, leadcore has worked well for me. I am still developing my own sense of using it well, but it has helped my fishing a lot. I run mostly 6 or 8 pound flouro or mono leaders on everything, and didn't have any break-offs this year. How? By paying attention to drag, and using sensitive but shock-absorbing rods. My lost fish were mostly idiot factor losses, while a few were just plain heart-breaking. You might need stronger leaders in big water, but here in Vermont 20# fish are not common.

I spent a lot more on fishing than usual this past summer, but I only lost a few lures this year, even though my hours fishing more than quadrupled. I have lost hundreds of dollars in past years, so I just keep telling myself that I really only spent a little more than usual with all the savings from not having to replace a lot of dependable go-to lures. My leadcore outfit was pricey by my standards, but in reality it ran me under $100 all together- worth it for sure.

 

[rightcoastrob]

Re: Lead core, planers or downriggers-Which do you use and why?

I commented once, but here is some more:

I run 18# Mason line. Like most leadcore, it is a different color every 30 feet. I run it on an Okuma level wind line counter reel (the only reel I own that isn't a spinning reel) and matched Okuma rod. It's wound over several hundred feet of 20-pound Stren braided backer. I have never had all 100 yards of lead out yet.

I calculate about 5 feet of depth for every color (30 feet) of line I let out. In actual use, I have found that the first two colors run shallower than that, and at 4 colors (120 feet) out, I can feel -or get hung up on - humps 20 feet down, but when they show on the graph, a quick reel-up to 100 on the line counter keeps me from fouling. Sometimes I just lift the rod in the air, and I am getting confident with that, but I don't have silver-lined pockets so most often I reel up quick and scared-like!

Leadcore will run higher in the water column at a faster running speed. Alternatively, creeping at 1 mph or under, and/or turning has found the bottom for me in 60 feet of water when I thought I was only 40' down. Part of the reason is that it takes a little while for the leadcore to settle down to its equilibrium running depth at a given speed, and if you are running slow, sometimes a breeze or making a turn is like stopping relative to the water, and there you go.

All in all, leadcore has worked well for me. I am still developing my own sense of using it well, but it has helped my fishing a lot. I run mostly 6 or 8 pound flouro or mono leaders on everything, and didn't have any break-offs this year. How? By paying attention to drag, and using sensitive but shock-absorbing rods. My lost fish were mostly idiot factor losses, while a few were just plain heart-breaking. You might need stronger leaders in big water, but here in Vermont 20# fish are not common.

I spent a lot more on fishing than usual this past summer, but I only lost a few lures this year, even though my hours fishing more than quadrupled. I have lost hundreds of dollars in past years, so I just keep telling myself that I really only spent a little more than usual with all the savings from not having to replace a lot of dependable go-to lures. My leadcore outfit was pricey by my standards, but in reality it ran me under $100 all together- worth it for sure.

I also run okuma rod n reel combos i bought 4 this spring they worked great for the 59 bucks apeice there cheapies.May as well say a 100 after you spool one up.Altho everyone the clearcoat is crackled i assume from dipsy divers and a hard strike.But i do plan to buy two more and i belive i may try the leadcore out and give it a shot this spring.When i can fish in shallow water dipseys wont do to well in 40 ft of clear water and a loud 2 stroke hard enough not to spook them in 70 ft.This is my first year of trolling i just got my first boat last june.And i,ve been broke ever since but i had the best time fishing this year.I didnt sink it or hit no one and caught lots of fish.

 

[Mark_VTfisherman]

Re: Lead core, planers or downriggers-Which do you use and why?

I...59 bucks apeice there cheapies.May as well say a 100 after you spool one up............the clearcoat is crackled...

Where'd you get it for $59? Mail order I hope? That's like cost! And, yes, I included the line, too.

My clear is cracked too, but I assumed it was from bangin around in the boat. but i still want another rod like it. I had trouble with the line counter fishing at 17 degrees Fahrenheit but I think a little moisture was in there. It worked again after the temp went above 33.

 

[rightcoastrob]

Re: Lead core, planers or downriggers-Which do you use and why?

i got mine at a mom-n-pop shop where i live but ive seen 2 packs on ebay for 110$ for a pair and like 200 for a 4 pack of combos.I noticed on my line counters they get fogged up after a rain if i leave them out exposed so they must be prone to moisture.I was just looking at 4 packs last week or so on ebay.But its actually cheaper for me to just go to the store.I do know im going to order my line of the net tho i can get 10,000ft bulk spool what it costs me for 1200ft for about 25 bucks more.Thats for the stainless single strand.

 

[jennis9]

Re: Lead core, planers or downriggers-Which do you use and why?

rightcoastrob and I are fishing the same pond.

I use leadcore -- about 300ft back (talk about reeling it in), steel which I LOVE, fireline one dipseys, planer boards (inline and big boards) and downriggers with florocarbon.

Just depends on the time of year, migration pattern and depth. And of course sometimes, I could have it all set up right and they won't hit any of it!

 

[sschefer]

Re: Lead core, planers or downriggers-Which do you use and why?

ebry710 - I'm gonna tell you about something that you can't tell anyone else, it's my secret deadly weapon for Lake Sonoma Steelies..Use your down riggers and stay in the water column. You should be able to see it on your sonar and if not drop a weighted line over the side and mark where you loose sight of it. Measure that and that's roughly where sunlight starts to diminish and stops making oxygen that fish need when actively feeding.
Now, here's the secret for staying in the water column and trolling at the same depth as your downrigger is set to.

Spool up with 15lb mono then run one color of lead core and 12ft of 12lb leader. If the water is murky then you can add a small Sep's flasher between the lead core and the leader and shorten the leader to 2 ft.

You run out 100' of line then attach your quick release and set your downrigger depth to what you mesured before.

For your appetizer, well, that's a matter of what the fish want that day. I've had good luck with a Threaded large nightcrawler on a #6 Gamakatsu and a medium pink spin glo with a piece of roe or pink yarn.

What your doing with the SDW rig is putting the bait right where you want it an keeping there.

Just remember, landlocked steelies have eyes near the top of their head and attack their prey from below. That takes a lot of energy and in cold water the fish has to get oxygen to replenish its strength. Once they've fed they'll go back down where the water is warmer this time of year and just sit. You'll see them but you won't catch em.

So if you see them at 50 feet just hang out, you found the fish now you have to wait for them to get hungry.

Work the dam from the hatchery to the first bridge column then cut in and work heart attack hill down just past the marina. Thats the loop for the steelies at Lake Sonoma.

By the way, change up the bait and you can use the same rig for Koke's over at Berryessa.

The best thing about this rig is that when the fish hit's you're fighting nothing but fish.. There ain't nothing like it.

Oh Yeah, CPR is not mandatory and we all hope you only take what you need for dinner. So catch em, fight em and release em if you aint gonna eat em.

 

[ebry710]

Re: Lead core, planers or downriggers-Which do you use and why?

ebry710 - I'm gonna tell you about something that you can't tell anyone else, it's my secret deadly weapon for Lake Sonoma Steelies..Use your down riggers and stay in the water column.

Thank you for the tip. I just received my 2-Big Jon manual downriggers yesterday. I'll have them set with 6# weights. I have needlefish and white flies currently on hand with scotty quick releases. I am looking for a small 9.9hp 4 stroke for trolling (my 120 hates slow). I will add threaded large nightcrawler on a #6 Gamakatsu and a medium pink spin glo with a piece of roe or pink yarn to WMD's.

Following the water column and light penetration depth makes sense. I am assuming I am to "S" or snake my trolling pattern to vary speed.

If you see a tackle laden, semi-submerged Whaler Outrage next month snaking between sheriff's cove and the 5 mph markers, stop and say "hi".

 

[sschefer]

Re: Lead core, planers or downriggers-Which do you use and why?

My 18' boat is down for a full overhaul for the next couple of months. I sold my 14' to help finance it. I've got to spend every spare minute working on it if I expect to be able to use it at Eagle Lake by June. I've been going there for over 40 years now and this will be my first June trip. Rain and snow have only added 2" of water to the lake so far and it looses 5" on average so it's really low. If I expect to fish it at all this year I have to go early. At that, I may endup fly fishing from the shore.

As for snaking your way along, that's not a bad idea. You might as well get used to doing it now, it won't be an option if this great weather holds out and the non-fishing types start showing up.. LOL.

Funny story - Last summer I was up the Dry Creek side fishing and came back to the ramp only to find total chaos. I veered away and started heading towards the marina. I looked over and there was the Sheriff so I re rigged a pole and started trolling. The Sheriff called me on channel 69 and said "You're Hired".. I think you could hear us both laughing clear to the top of the hill. Nothing will make people pay attention more than the possibility of mono wrapped around a prop shaft! Sure slowed em down.. I only had about 10' of line in the water.

 

[ebry710]

Re: Lead core, planers or downriggers-Which do you use and why?

I haven't fishing Lake Sonoma in the summer. I imagine that those ski areas are a mess.