Synthetic oil after break in,how long to wait?

[boater1234]

I am asking a question to all of you here?I know some say that synthetic oil is a waste for 4stroke outboards because the motors run to cool and usually don't get up to full temp,but saying that,i run darn near wot everywhere i go so you can say the motor runs at full temp most of the time which should not be an issue with full synthetic oil in my outboard.I know it's not needed but i want to switch over to it when my outboard is fully broken in.Most of the people i know use it without any issue but the key is when to switch over.

My question is the first oil change on my suzuki is due at 20hrs,will that be enough time used on the motor for the rings to fully seat to were i can switch over to full synthetic?I believe it is but im not 100%sure if there is a set amount of hrs it needs before switching over.Thanks for any help.

 

[1979checkmate]

Re: Synthetic oil after break in,how long to wait?

i would say yes. Then again as good as conventional oil is anymore (really - the additive packages of some oils are awesome), i really don't think synthetic is any more slippery. Take longer to break down than conventional? I'd say theres pretty good evidence that it does - even if it is just marginally better. So i'd say go for it. I am in that group that says it is probably a waste of money on an outboard, especially if frequent oil changes are done. That said - its your motor and if you want to spend a little more on oil, even if just for peace of mind, go for it! That said - i will always vote for a cheaper conventional changed twice as often as a more expensive synthetic. All that said.. i am also employed by the petroleum industry so maybe i tell myself things for job security .

 

[limitout]

Re: Synthetic oil after break in,how long to wait?

when I brought my Suzuki df40 in for its first service and oil change the guy asked me AFTERWARDS why I didn't request synthetic oil be put in. boy was I mad that he didn't mention it before he put regular oil back in. he told me that after the initial break in period, its fine and actually preferred to use synthetic oil only.

that's what my Suzuki dealership mechanic said about it and he said don't use aftermarket oil filters because they run different oil pressures then outboards so the pressure relief valve wont work correctly and the filter may just bypass and not filter the oil at all or not bypass and seize the motor because oil flow stops if the filter is clogged. he also said the marine oil filter canisters are made of stainless or aluminum so they wont rust.

synthetic oil is a much better lubricant and it is more slippery and it will make the motor run smoother and quieter then regular oil does. synthetic also has a longer service life, not that that matters for outboards since we will change it long before its worn out. synthetic oil in your lower unit will also make it shift easier and quieter.

 

[tazrig]

Re: Synthetic oil after break in,how long to wait?

i really don't think synthetic is any more slippery.

Actually a true synthetic is a lot more slippery. The only difference between a synthetic and non is the size of the molecules. With synthetic all the molecules are the same size. With regular they are different sizes. Think of a bunch of ball bearings in a bearing. If they are all the same size they will protect better and last longer. Whether or not you need that level of protection or choose to pay for it is a different story. That's for you to decide. As far as seating the rings go. 20 hours is the industry average. The more you vary your rpm's during the first 20 hours (per your manufactures direction) the better the rings will seat.

People are pretty passionate about which oil to use. I would strongly suggest you use EXACTLY what your manufacture recommends for the entirety of your warranty period. After that use what your second cousin's 4th half brother's doctor's secretary recommends. During warranty however, if your engine goes "bad" and you didn't use the mrfg's oil suggestion they may not cover the repair or replacement. is it really worth the chance? :noidea:

 

[limitout]

Re: Synthetic oil after break in,how long to wait?

People are pretty passionate about which oil to use. I would strongly suggest you use EXACTLY what your manufacture recommends for the entirety of your warranty period. After that use what your second cousin's 4th half brother's doctor's secretary recommends. During warranty however, if your engine goes "bad" and you didn't use the mrfg's oil suggestion they may not cover the repair or replacement. is it really worth the chance? :noidea:

^^^^^^^^^^^ + 1000

only use dealer approved oil for it but they have synthetics you can and should use, the dealer will confirm if the oil you buy meets warranty standards

 

[boater1234]

Re: Synthetic oil after break in,how long to wait?

Listen i am glad you guys are giving me input,it's all great but the one thing i know for sure is they will not void your warranty for not using their oil if you have a warranty issue,you can use any,i mean any oil you want as long as it's API or FCW stamped(also says it right in the manual).You can use any reg automotive or marine oil you please without them voiding your warranty.I have a suzuki dealer right down the road and i also called suzuki and they said as long as either of those stamps are on the label there is no issue.I would say just about every oil has that stamp which means you can use what you want.I would never use suzuki's oil,it's so damn expensive and no better then any other oil,i usually use Royal purple or amsoil,the best part there all way cheaper then suzuki's oils.Now i do get there oil cartridges for oil changes as there is no cross reference for them yet but the filters are pretty cheap at $8 a piece.

The suzuki oil is over $12 a quart,i get my oil for $6 or $7 and it's full synthetic instead of the suzuki oil being semi syn.I don't know why people think this?I hear this a lot from people and see it a lot on forums.It's a myth,no one will void a warranty if you don't use what the dealer recommends,that's the big key,they recommend you use their oil as you stated below me,it's not mandatory.

Anyway so what i gather is 20hrs should be plenty of time for the rings to seat and to switch.

 

[Faztbullet]

Re: Synthetic oil after break in,how long to wait?

I use the Starbrite blend in my customers 4 stroke motors and its priced reasonable for the customer too. After 50 hr or end of season its really not that dark and could likely go another 20-30 hours.


Super Premium Synthetic Blend 4 Stroke Oil 10W 30

 

[Texasmark]

Re: Synthetic oil after break in,how long to wait?

I have a Cummins B 3.3 (L) engine in my tractor purchased new in '07. Oil change interval on that engine is 300 hrs. I run Syn. in a lot of things on the place so I surely wanted to run it in my diesel tractor. I called Cummins and asked them if I could run full syn. Rotella T 5W-40 which, like the paraffin based Rot. 15w-40 is C rated (compression engine).

Cummins reply was: "Sir, your B 3.3 would LOVE for you to run that oil......at the first oil change." Reason was, engine had to wear "out" (wear in if you will) somewhat and paraffin oil would do a better job of allowing that to happen.

Other thing with syn is it's temperature range on both extremes and resistance to breakdown. I run it (Penn syn blend prem TC-W3) in my Merc. and I run full syn 10-30 (recommended viscosity) in my lawn mowers. With paraffin oils i have to change oil at least once at mid season with the mowers. With syn I finish the season on the initial oil and it is still somewhat honey colored. My Merc hardly smokes and when full syn is easy to get around here I'll run that.

Here's something to think about. How is it that all of a sudden you get a 100,000 warranty on the power train of a work truck? Since I have one, and looking at the maintenance schedule for engine oil change, transmission, and differential, the engine is now out to 7500 and the tranny and diff are at 100k. Then look at the oil that is required in these applications to retain the warranty and guess what? In comes syn.

Makes sense to me
Mark

Mark

 

[scipper77]

Re: Synthetic oil after break in,how long to wait?

A little personal story on a new engine and break in.

Brand new car rated to get 35/37 MPG, real world should be 32/35. After 500 miles I put in synthetic blend. Through the first summer I was getting around 27 mpg. After the synthetic blend had around 3-4000 miles I went to Mobile 1 full synthetic. All winter still around 27 mpg. next summer went up to 30 mpg, next winter 29 mpg. second summer with the car I was finally getting 32 mpg. It took 20,000 miles before I saw the expected gas mileage.

I have no idea if this was due to going to synthetic from new or if this would have happened anyways. I do know that the car now has 85,000 miles and does not lose a noticeable amount of oil between 5,000 mile oil change intervals. Even the color of the old oil is pretty good, Dark but not black.

For the cost of your motor I would go with full synthetic. As you stated, you run at WOT all the time. Synthetic is not snake oil. Clean, fresh conventional oil is comperable to synthetic, but in extreme conditions I am not aware of any case where synthetic is at a disadvantage. For this reason I see no harm in using conventional oil for the first oil change. For the long term I think synthetic offers you the best protection.

 

[boater1234]

Re: Synthetic oil after break in,how long to wait?

The first oil change is due at 20hrs.The next oil change i will do is at 75hrs,then after that i will stay on a 75hr schedule for the rest of the time i have this outboard which i hope is a long time.This is my first 4stroke that i will be running so it will be different then a 2stroke.I don't know for sure if 20hrs is enough but i would think so.The oil that suzuki uses is semi synthetic anyway so i can't see how a full synthetic would hurt after 20hrs.Right now i have Royal purple breakin oil in it,it's straight mineral oil with a lot of zinc and phosphorus in it that is suppose to aid better in breaking in a 4stroke engine.I have read a lot of good stuff about it.After that i have decided to run 10w40 full synthetic Royal purple marine oil in it for the life of the outboard as well as RP lower unit oil.I really like their oils.Yes it's a bit pricey but it will only cost me $20 a yr for oil,i only have a 20hp 4stroke suzuki.Takes one quart.To me that's well worth it.

 

[alanfox55]

Re: Synthetic oil after break in,how long to wait?

Hey Mark I'm glad you brought up using full syn in your Cummins. I had a Cummins N14 in my semi truck. I used shell full syn I got at Walmart. I had two very good extended use oil filters on that motor that I changed religiously. I changed my oil once every 100,000 miles. At about 50,000 miles I would send in an oil sample for analysis...never a problem. I got over 1,000,000 miles on that motor and it was still in great shape when I sold it. By the way I also used Mobil one syn grease on everything including that truck. It is not a heavy grease rated for semi truck use yet I never wore anything out I used it on. I've been using syn lubes,grease and oil for a long time now on everything I own and have never wore anything out I've used it on.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Re: Synthetic oil after break in,how long to wait?

My question is the first oil change on my suzuki is due at 20hrs,will that be enough time used on the motor for the rings to fully seat to were i can switch over to full synthetic?I believe it is but im not 100%sure if there is a set amount of hrs it needs before switching over.Thanks for any help.

This is actually a very important question !

Years ago, when Yamaha came out with their 115 4 stroke, there was a number of issues with engines "making oil". There were several issues.

• Improper break in - insufficient high speed/load operation causing the rings to not seat for a long time
• Too rich of a mixture at idle/trolling speeds - excess fuel was actually washing down the cylinder walls into the sump

Changing to synthetic oil before the rings seated basically further delayed them from seating, in some cases, at all !


If Suzuki says 20hrs, just make sure it is 20 hrs at the recommended speeds and loads !!

 

[boater1234]

Re: Synthetic oil after break in,how long to wait?

You know what's funny about that 115 your talking about,i have seen thousands of posts on that and the merc 115 4stroke,i believe yamaha made the power head for the merc so that would make sense.A ton of people followed the manual that of course everyone believes is correct,well most of the people who followed it had oil making issues from all i have read,all the people who did a hard breakin from the start say there motor is perfect and makes no oil.Everyone says to follow what the manufacture recommends (key word(recommends)which means that all their doing is recommending what they feel is the right way to break in a motor.Yes i get they do testing,etc.....but there is still room for error and improvement.

I hear so many conflicting stories and theorys.I believe a motor should just vary the rpm,s and you need to hammer the throttle down while varying the rpms to fully seat the rings.The manual does not support that and i get that.I know everyone says what are you smarter then the manufacture,i say no but that doesn't mean everything they say is 100%correct and accurate.We learn new things everyday.I have said before i got this brand new engine i have and what i'm about to say doesn't make me correct,i just never put much thought into this whole breakin thing till now.I have bought 5 brand new motors and i have never once broke in any of them,not for one second.I went balls to the walls from the beginning and everyone of my motors ran awesome,the ones i sold to people still have perfect compression today from over 10yrs ago.That tells me one thing,i either got lucky 5 times or there is more to this then is known.I never said what i did was correct but i just didn't care being in my early teen yrs to my early 20's to breaking in a motor,i just wanted to go and get there fast,lol.

There is so much info and research to back a motor being broke in hard rather then per manual.(When i mean hard,i mean don't baby it as the manual wants you to do for the first few hrs,hammer on the throttle every now and again from the start while varying your rpm's,no need to beat the crap out of it)I'm in no way saying to do it any other way then the manual but it raises eyebrows.It's just like the synthetic thing,forever you here never use synthetic oil in your 4 stroke outboard,i use to be told that all the time,now they sell full synthtic oil just for outboards.People say they will void your warranty if you have a issue,that is so far from the truth,I have actually called my local suzuki dealer with all this and they said we would never void a warranty due to not following what the manufacure,(again just recommends,it's not mandatory to do as the book recommends)again it's what they recommend for breakin which means you can take what is a guidline they made and alter it to how it fits the way you feel it's correct.My theory is if it's not broke then don't fix it so i'm going to break in my motor harder then recommended because i feel the rings will no doubt seat as close to perfect as it can get as with babying it from the beginning and it's a crap shoot on what happens.This is just imo and nothing else.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Re: Synthetic oil after break in,how long to wait?

You know what's funny about that 115 your talking about,i have seen thousands of posts on that and the merc 115 4stroke,i believe yamaha made the power head for the merc so that would make sense.

I concur.

I believe a motor should just vary the rpm,s and you need to hammer the throttle down while varying the rpms to fully seat the rings.

Again, I concur !