1993 YAMAHA 130 v4 TILT/TRIM PROBLEM

[21cuddy]

I washed my boat yesterday and went to bed, I woke up this morning and the motor was trimmed all the way up and it wont go down. I hear the relays clicking when i press the trim buttons but the motor wont respond. I plan to start checking everything from switches to relays to the motor. Any ideas why the motor would trim itself up? Is the trim motor hard to replace and do you have to remove the transom brackets to replace it? Thanks

 

[21cuddy]

Re: 1993 YAMAHA 130 v4 TILT/TRIM PROBLEM

I washed my boat yesterday and went to bed, I woke up this morning and the motor was trimmed all the way up and it wont go down. I hear the relays clicking when i press the trim buttons but the motor wont respond. I plan to start checking everything from switches to relays to the motor. Any ideas why the motor would trim itself up? Is the trim motor hard to replace and do you have to remove the transom brackets to replace it? Thanks

Lesson learned, don't leave the battery connected overnight after you wash your boat.

 

[RRitt]

Re: 1993 YAMAHA 130 v4 TILT/TRIM PROBLEM

if that solenoid is proprietary with a $100 price tag than this might be a good time to install generic. The Mercury, mariner, force 2w trim wiring harness from 1990's is about as good as it gets. it is the design that generic evolved from. the mercury harness is all over ebay for about $30, it uses automotive style relays that cost under $5ea, and it usually has a circuit breaker or fuse that prevents your accident from re-occurring. definitely the gold standard of trim wiring.

 

[Capt Ken]

Re: 1993 YAMAHA 130 v4 TILT/TRIM PROBLEM

Don't go butchering your wiring harness being its probably not the solenoid anyway. Solenoids don't engerize out of the blue, they have to get a signal and that signal probably came from the tilt switch on the lower cowling. Now if the trim motor ran all night in the up position, you probably have a burnt up trim motor and relays to go with the shorted tilt switch. Plus, unless you removed the cowling and drowned the sealed relays, water didn't affect them.

 

[21cuddy]

Re: 1993 YAMAHA 130 v4 TILT/TRIM PROBLEM

Don't go butchering your wiring harness being its probably not the solenoid anyway. Solenoids don't engerize out of the blue, they have to get a signal and that signal probably came from the tilt switch on the lower cowling. Now if the trim motor ran all night in the up position, you probably have a burnt up trim motor and relays to go with the shorted tilt switch. Plus, unless you removed the cowling and drowned the sealed relays, water didn't affect them.

Ok i did some further digging and think I might have been wrong. The 2 relays on the engine for tilt/trim on the switch leg of the relay are grounded at idle. When I press either trim switch in the down position both switch legs energize, the top relay loses its ground and becomes powered so the bottom relay just clicks because both wires to the trim motor are getting 12v and no ground. This leads me to believe there is a short in the remote switch that is joining the up down wires together and switching both relays together when I trim down. I took the 2 trim motor wires off the relays and the motor works fine in both directions, i also hooked the wires up individually to each relay and they both switched the motor but when I plug everything in correctly the motor will only trim up. The top relay does not supply a ground when I trim down so the trim motor wont activate. Any thoughts out there? I dont want to spend $200 bucks on relays if the $60 switch is bad

 

[21cuddy]

Re: 1993 YAMAHA 130 v4 TILT/TRIM PROBLEM

if that solenoid is proprietary with a $100 price tag than this might be a good time to install generic. The Mercury, mariner, force 2w trim wiring harness from 1990's is about as good as it gets. it is the design that generic evolved from. the mercury harness is all over ebay for about $30, it uses automotive style relays that cost under $5ea, and it usually has a circuit breaker or fuse that prevents your accident from re-occurring. definitely the gold standard of trim wiring.

My question is on that note that automotive relays are usually 30 to 40 amps, my trim relays are 80 amps each, Will they provide sufficient amperage? Not sure I wanna save money with the risk of melting wire.

 

[RRitt]

Re: 1993 YAMAHA 130 v4 TILT/TRIM PROBLEM

the 30/40A relays will handle up to 10Awg wire. The existing relays are rated up to 80Amps but the actual current is much less. The important item is the inline circuit breaker. I personally prefer the inline ATC fuse type. I start with 20A fuse for smaller motors and work up to 30A on larger. Once I have the size just right then I replace fuse with a circuit breaker. You can buy ATC style fuses and breakers from auto-boys depot. The whole problem you are having now is eliminated with proper inline fuse.

you do not have to cut or remove any of you existing harness to use the mercury style. It is a stand-alone subharness that pulls power from battery connection at starter. You attach the up-down leads from existing switch as input and the two fat wires as output to your trim motor. You would cut off the two harness output connectors and replace with ones to fit yamaha trim motor. Same with harness input or use crimp-on wire taps. The mercury system supports unlimited switch locations by simply splicing them in. If you have multiple switches then you would want a better way to connect all the control leads than using wire taps.

 

[Capt Ken]

Re: 1993 YAMAHA 130 v4 TILT/TRIM PROBLEM

I repeat, do not butcher the wiring on your motor in an attempt to save a couple of bucks. If the solenoids worked properly when you disconnected the switches, then they are fine. Both solenoids are grounded at rest then when engerized, switches to positive. Your problem is in your switches so figure out which one. I bet if you unplug the one on the engine the one on the binnacle will work fine.

 

[21cuddy]

Re: 1993 YAMAHA 130 v4 TILT/TRIM PROBLEM

the 30/40A relays will handle up to 10Awg wire. The existing relays are rated up to 80Amps but the actual current is much less. The important item is the inline circuit breaker. I personally prefer the inline ATC fuse type. I start with 20A fuse for smaller motors and work up to 30A on larger. Once I have the size just right then I replace fuse with a circuit breaker. You can buy ATC style fuses and breakers from auto-boys depot. The whole problem you are having now is eliminated with proper inline fuse.

you do not have to cut or remove any of you existing harness to use the mercury style. It is a stand-alone subharness that pulls power from battery connection at starter. You attach the up-down leads from existing switch as input and the two fat wires as output to your trim motor. You would cut off the two harness output connectors and replace with ones to fit yamaha trim motor. Same with harness input or use crimp-on wire taps. The mercury system supports unlimited switch locations by simply splicing them in. If you have multiple switches then you would want a better way to connect all the control leads than using wire taps.

Sounds like I could just make this up myself with two relays, one switching 12v and one switching ground to reverse the polarity for the trim motor. I don't think the relays are my problem with my recent finding but when they do fail this sounds like a cost effective remedy. Thanks

 

[21cuddy]

Re: 1993 YAMAHA 130 v4 TILT/TRIM PROBLEM

I will try troubleshooting the switches this evening, I ran out of daylight yesterday. I can't come up with any other reason the top solenoid would energize when I trim down other than a shorted switch. I hope thats it, it would be the first cheap fix on any boat I've owned. LOL

 

[RRitt]

Re: 1993 YAMAHA 130 v4 TILT/TRIM PROBLEM

it is not worth the effort to DIY the harness. You will spend more and get less. You need double crimping tool and locking tab connectors in order to do a proper relay socket. I make my own because I need to have the exact same harness every time. I include installation instructions with new trim systems and manual to power conversion kits. The chinese harness I have found have undersized wire and cheap fuse holder.

If I only needed one or two then I would definitely go to ebay and look for a good, used mercury/mariner/force. The design was introduced by USMarine-Prestolite in 1988 on Force engines. By the mid 1990's it was the dominant trim wiring design on all mercury-mariner-force-johnson-evinrude-volvo. The J/E implenetation is not as good as the others. They put it in a lidded box where moisture collects and causes problems with connections. Mercury/mariner/force is the best. they are always on ebay in the $20-$35 range.

 

[Capt Ken]

Re: 1993 YAMAHA 130 v4 TILT/TRIM PROBLEM

And when and if he goes to sell the boat the new buyer or dealer will see the wiring has been jury rigged and that will count off on any trade in or sales price. Kinda like jury rigging Ford parts to fit a Chevrolet.

 

[RRitt]

Re: 1993 YAMAHA 130 v4 TILT/TRIM PROBLEM

he can just take it out and connect the wires back to the old harness. it requires no modification to any yamaha part. Every starter has battery positive and every engine has grounded block.

- you simply just don't use the Yamaha parts. you don't have to cut or remove them if you don't want to. just leave it there. unused.

 

[21cuddy]

Re: 1993 YAMAHA 130 v4 TILT/TRIM PROBLEM

he can just take it out and connect the wires back to the old harness. it requires no modification to any yamaha part. Every starter has battery positive and every engine has grounded block.

- you simply just don't use the Yamaha parts. you don't have to cut or remove them if you don't want to. just leave it there. unused.

I would prefer just to keep things stock for now but thanks for the advice

 

[21cuddy]

Re: 1993 YAMAHA 130 v4 TILT/TRIM PROBLEM

I repeat, do not butcher the wiring on your motor in an attempt to save a couple of bucks. If the solenoids worked properly when you disconnected the switches, then they are fine. Both solenoids are grounded at rest then when engerized, switches to positive. Your problem is in your switches so figure out which one. I bet if you unplug the one on the engine the one on the binnacle will work fine.

OK I'm officially stumped, both switches test good, no continuity between switch legs and a solid 12v on each when applied. Neither one individually will make the trim motor go down. Why are both switch legs on the relays getting 12 volts when i push the trim down buttons? Is there a diode somewhere that is failing? Both solenoids work correctly individually, the motor works good in both directions and both switches work individually. I tried swapping solenoids in position and the motor will trim down but not up. All things point to bad solenoids or at least one but will new ones both energize when I switch down? I don't know whats going on. Please somebody point out what I'm missing

 

[RRitt]

Re: 1993 YAMAHA 130 v4 TILT/TRIM PROBLEM

switches wired in parralel can not be tested without first isolating them. any one switch will assert voltage at corresponding post on all other switches. if switch has malfunction, it may be difficult to isolate the problem with all switches connected.

you should break your system down to lowest common denominators and build back up until you find the malfunction. if it was me, i would disconnect switch inputs to relay box and activate manually with 12v aligator clip. if that works then I would add a single switch. if that works, a second switch. etc etc.

 

[21cuddy]

Re: 1993 YAMAHA 130 v4 TILT/TRIM PROBLEM

switches wired in parralel can not be tested without first isolating them. any one switch will assert voltage at corresponding post on all other switches. if switch has malfunction, it may be difficult to isolate the problem with all switches connected.

you should break your system down to lowest common denominators and build back up until you find the malfunction. if it was me, i would disconnect switch inputs to relay box and activate manually with 12v aligator clip. if that works then I would add a single switch. if that works, a second switch. etc etc.

Finally I found it, after taking the solenoids off and laying them on my work bench with a 12v battery and not using the boats electrical system the top solenoid does not have a ground at rest, the bottom solenoid does. One bad solenoid. Finally I can sleep tonight and order the right parts. Thank you all for the direction. It appears that the solenoid shorted out its discolored from heat and by shorting it supplied power to the switch leg while the lower solenoid was grounded at rest and up went the engine. Thankfully only the solenoid shorted out