Battery question

[Mumblerone]

Re: Battery question

The direction say it's OK to swith after the motors start. Just do not run in "ALL". But then again , I'm the guy with the problem...I'd like to hear more on this topic. Maybe we'll have to start a new 'thread'.

 

[petryshyn]

Re: Battery question

Mumblerone<br /><br />Need to know how your system is wired. How many batteries total...<br /><br />>I wouldn't adjust the switch while running. If it open circuits while rotating it, even for a second, it could easily damage electronics. Do the switching before starting.....<br /><br />*a voltmeter across each battery isn't necessary if one is connected properly .....The selector switch will connect to each battery appropriately.

 

[Mumblerone]

Re: Battery question

Here we go...the boat, a 1996 Boston Whaler with twin Evinrude 175 HP Ocean Pros. It is factory wired with two batteries. There are two 'Perko' Switches mounted on a panel, one above the other. Each switch has four positions 'OFF', '1','2', and 'ALL'. The switches are labled 'PORT BATTERY' and 'STARBOARD BATTERY' It says...Normal orerating position for Port Battery is '1', Normal operating position Starboard Battery is '2'. No problem! Then there is this note between the battery switches, and I quote "To parallel batteries, set both switches to the 'ALL' position. Return to normal operatin positions after starting. Do not operate boat with the batteries in parellel, or serious engine electrical damage may result." It would appear OK to start then immediately put back to position '1' and '2' respectively to run. I have done this on occasion when one battery was a little weak. I have never forgotten to put the switches back to '1' and '2' to run. I personally have no problem with this, but as I mentioned above at the end of the season my voltage gauges in stopped (keys off) position were at 12 volts or so. When 'on' (motors running) they registered over 18 plus volts...I believe they were broke. I replaced them all works good now. THE QUESTION?????? "What caused my voltage gauges to malfunction?" I do not want to replace them again. Incidently I did put a new rectifier/regulator in on the port motor when the gauges were bad and the port battery lost a charge after several months. This did not seem to make a difference...I now have a good spare. Thanks again Capt. Walt

 

[petryshyn]

Re: Battery question

Selecting the switch on a 2 switch system is ok when running (one battery is always connected) just don't select either to OFF when running!!!<br /><br />The only way to check the voltmeters is to compare their readings with a known good voltmeter. Digital meters work well for this. even cheap ones.<br /><br />Sounds like you have a charging system problem on one engine. Take the boat for a run for several minutes, and while under-way, check the voltage across the battery with a hand held meter. If voltage is less than 13v, you have stator, rect/reg, wiring problems...... It wouldn't hurt to have the batteries checked as well. A bad battery can also drag the voltage down

 

[russthemuss]

Re: Battery question

My 2 cents worth.<br />Dont even bother hooking up the trolling or house batteries to the charging system. 1,2 and off should be for starting batteries only.Not deep cycle.Run on 1 or 2 but not all.I cant see this damaging anything but the whole purpose of the switch is to prevent you from getting stranded if you stop for a fish etc listening to the radio as you do and run 1 battery down.If your boat sits and one battery goes flat,when you switch to all it drains the other!! Start on 1 or 2 and monitor their condition.Start on all if both crank slow.<br /><br />Remember Volt meters only show if you are charging or not.They allways seem 2 rattle apart and they always read wrong.They give no indication of your batteries condition.All they show is if the volts increase when your engine is running.A voltmeter also gives no indication of the batteries condition but can be used to check if charging. <br />I have seen many battery switches fail!!! Keep it simple so you can manualy hook up batteries if you get stuck.

 

[Boatist]

Re: Battery question

I will start with battery switches. There are two types, with alternator field disconect and without. If it has a alternator field disconnect you can switch it while running. If it does not have a alternator field disconnect and you switch it while running it will blow alternator. I would not buy a switch that does not have a Field disconnect. They are only about another $10. What happends is alternator is charging and you turn switch with field connected as soon as lose load of battery output voltage of alternator go to very high voltage and it blows all the output diodes in alternator. I personaly set switch to one and leave it there unless battery one is dead. I also use a battery isolator to charge both batteries. My starting battery only has the thing required to run the boat on it, Starter, Running lights, horn, bilge blower gagues. The aux battery has every thing else. Set up this way if aux battery dies can still run boat and if motor is running all aux stuff also.<br /><br />Battery should all be same type if connected to one alternator. In general if you have a factory wired boat they should be flooded type. Can be either starting or deep cycle or one of each or the combine starting/deep cycle. Problem with the Gel battery is requires a lower charging voltage than flooded. Every alternator I have seen both I/O or O/B are set to charge a Flooded type battery. Some outboards have no voltage regulator but they are usually older motors or small HP motors with small alternators. <br />With dual motors I would use a switch on both first motor set to battery 1 second motor set to battery 2 and again I would leave it there unless you have a dead battery. Use a battery isolator to charge batteries. <br />If you wish to use the gel batteries and from what I here they are great you need to find a voltage regulator designed for that type battery. I know nothing about the new AGM batteries.

 

[Mumblerone]

Re: Battery question

Thanks guys it all makes more sense now. We'll see how it goes this year I don't expect any problems. Just wanted to get a few things straight in my head.

 

[tesmel]

Re: Battery question

As an avid fisherman and boater I have designed and tested a device called a "Phase Charger" that will solve all your on board multiple battery charging requirements. Since installing one on my boat, I now concentrate on catching that trophy walleye instead of worrying about my battery conditions.<br /><br />WHAT IS A PHASE CHARGER<br />A Phase Charger will allow the avid fisherman to charge his main and troll batteries simultaneously from the engine’s alternator while the engine is running.<br /><br />11 REASONS TO HAVE A PHASE CHARGER<br /><br />1) Charge both main and troll batteries simultaneously.<br />2) Completely isolate main and troll batteries when engine is off.<br />3) You will never have to remove your troll batteries to charge them after a day’s trolling.<br />4) Saves you the hassles of lifting heavy batteries to shore to charge.(saves your back too)<br />5) You will not be stranded on the water because your main battery is dead from trolling all day.<br />6) There is absolutely no voltage drop through this device as with the battery isolator.<br />7) No rewiring required.<br />8) No more forgetting the Battery Switch in the wrong position and damaging your electrical system.<br />9) A lot cheaper than most Battery Switch and Isolators.<br />10) You don’t have to be an electrical engineer to install this device.<br />11) Both batteries will be charged optimally.<br /><br />HOW TO HOOK UP THE PHASE CHARGER <br /><br />The Phase Charger comes with four wires, a pair of 16guage wires that is <br />connected to the ignition switch, this supplies 12v to the Phase Charger to <br />turn it on when the engine is running.<br /><br />The other two wires are 8guage one is connected to the main<br />battery +ve, the second to the troll battery +ve.<br /><br />You do not have to wire this device to the alternator of your engine; the <br />alternator's output is already connected to your main crank battery <br />internally.<br /><br /> It is very simple to install, it comes with a complete wiring diagram, <br />and a step by step installation guide, for technical support e-mail, tesmel@sympatico.ca or call me any time. Day phone 416-789-4092.<br /><br />HOW IT WORKS<br />When the ignition switch is turned on a heavy-duty relay connects the crank and troll batteries in parallel (+ve to +ve and –ve to –ve) allowing both batteries to be charged from the engine. When the engine is turned off the relay opens separating the two batteries. All this is done automatically when properly installed.<br />Note: You can have as many troll batteries hooked up in parallel as you wish, provided the charging system of your engine can supply enough current.<br /><br />SPECIFICATIONS and FEATURES<br />The Phase Charger comes with a 2 year warranty and is completely waterproof for <br />outdoor use, it also has a built in battery Isolator feature that will prevent <br />any reverse current flow from the trolling battery to the main crank battery when starting the engine. It is available in 12v or 24v @ 40A & 20A respectively.<br /><br />The price is $49.00 +taxes + shipping. Canadian Funds<br /><br />Method of payments: Visa, MasterCard, American Express, Money Orders, Certified Cheques.

 

[Tracy Coleman]

Re: Battery question

tesmel<br />One question on point(11). How many hundred miles would you have to run to have "both batteries charged optimally" when you run the trolling motor<br />battery(s) dead trolling all day?<br />Backfire

 

[Boatist]

Re: Battery question

tesmel<br />When the big trolling battery is dead and you turn the key you will discharge the starting battery to the trolling battery and it would take most outboards motors 20 hours to recharge that trolling battery. Also the relay better be fully sealed or it would be a inginition sorse (Spark) for gas fumes form batteries or gas. I will never buy one.

 

[petryshyn]

Re: Battery question

Backfire hits it on the head.....O/B charging systems are not robust enough and running times are way too short to charge a troller battery set thoroughly. Unless you are running an inboard with a decent alternator and the return time from the fishing hole is atleast an hour, the batteries will never be up in charge. Secondly, the feature of low voltage drop as compared to a isolation diode (.6V)is not applicable with unregulated charging systems, as voltage is something we have too much of.....<br /><br />*In my opinion, nothing beats a selector switch, shore charger, and common sence.....

 

[tesmel]

Re: Battery question

I would like to respond to all the questions, and not so favourable comments about my "Phase Charger". I understand the reluctance and sarcasm, as with anything new there is always questions. <br /> <br />I am prepared to send a unit free of charge to a senior member on this forum, maybe Schematic.<br />All I ask is that you provide an unbiased and impartial report on the Phase Charger to this forum.<br /><br />Firstly let me make it abundantly clear that this device does not magically pull current out of thin air. What it does do is take advantage of your existing charging system to replenish your troll batteries when the engine is running. Secondly, my primary objective is to share my discovery of a solution to a problem we all face as boaters, fishermen, not to get rich, I own and operate an Electronics Repair-Computer Store. This is a hobby I enjoy doing and I have benefited greatly since Installing the Phase Charger. <br /><br />To address Backfire's question, to begin with most fishermen would make sure that before leaving for a trip, that all their batteries are fully charged with a shore charger. If your engine's alternator output is high enough say 20Amps then after 1hr. of running your engine you would have put back 20AH into your battery(sure beats putting nothing at all)<br /><br />To answer Boatist's question, When you start the engine that is the only time the batteries are connected in parallel, coincidentally that is the time there is an adequate supply of current to supply both batteries, therefore there is no current drain from one battery to the next, only a constant supply from the alternator. When the engine is turned off the batteries are completely isolated. The relays are epoxy sealed and do not spark "at all" since there is absolutely no current flow through it prior to and after it is turned on.<br /><br />To answer Schematic's comments, I did not say this unit will fully charge your batteries every time at all times under all circumstances.<br /><br />What it does however is provide you with the best hassle free, cost effective solution to an existing problem all boaters encounter with charging their troll batteries.<br /><br />A selector switch produces large sparks when switched while current flows through it, that could be disastrous.<br /><br />Schematic please let me know if you would like me to send you a free unit, I can send it by UPS, or CANPAR.<br /><br />Thanks <br />Terry