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Battery question

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  • Battery question

    Hi,I have a 1996 Yamaha 200 Salwater Series II on a 23 ft Century cc. I need to replace the batteries, on this boat, I am the second owner. They do not appear to be the orignial batteries.For this size motor, what type of battery (size, CCA) do I need for starting? The boat has running lights, ff, GPS, no trolling motors. I have two batteries now. One is a deep cycle, the other would appear to be for starting. One is holding a charge right now. The boat works fine, unless I let it sit, then there is not enough juice to crank the engine to life.Is 600 cranking amps enough, or do I need the bigger battery for starting?Thanks,Jon


  • #2
    Re: Battery question

    slapshot,How are you batteries connected now? If they work together, they should be the same unless you have dual charging outputs on your engine or an isolator of some sort??You can get dual purpose starting/deep cycle.

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    • #3
      Re: Battery question

      I took the battery that was dedicated to starting to the local auto parts store. They ran a test on it, and it came up bad. I bought a dual purpose marine battery. It is rated at 865 cca with 210 min. reserve. Should this be enough?The other battery, the deep cycle marine battery is ok. I will be putting it back in. I have a dual battery switch. Should I just leave it on the 'both' setting all the time? The batteries were connected to this switch.

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      • #4
        Re: Battery question

        i have asked this question on this board a hundred times and have never understood the answer. I have a battery switch with 1, 2, all, and off. I still dont know if i start it on all, what should i switch it to to run WOT then troll for hours. I sometimes switch it to 1 after starting and it works fine. There are times when i have to charge the batteries with a charger which means to me some are not getting charged. Other times i leave it on 'all' for the whole day. Is this bag/wrong? I have 1 starter battery and 2 combo batteries. I get so confused about this issue.

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        • #5
          Re: Battery question

          I've got the same question about where to set the dual battery switch, but I couldn't find a previous post on it. Will someone please take a try at explaining this?

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          • #6
            Re: Battery question

            Slapshot -- 865 cca is a powerful battery. I use a 900 cca on my inboard. I would stick with the 800-900 cca in a replacement, and get a combined starting/deep cycle. I bought mine at Boat US (little over $100, I think). I would also use the new battery as the starting battery. When you replace the existing auxiliary battery, buy another 800-900 cca starting/deep cycle, and use the newest one as the starting battery.[Like the other posters, I would also be interested in a discussion about battery switches. As I understand it, if the switch is set to "both," the batteries are in parallel, if I'm using that term correctly. They would provide more starting power (still 12 volts, but able to combine reserve capacities). I think the batteries would also charge off the alternator, but they would not be isolated from each other -- with the possible result that neither would get a full charge, particularly at trolling speeds.]

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            • #7
              Re: Battery question

              Oldboat - Thanks for the reply. Now the boat won't start ARRGGH! Brought it back to the place I bought this AM and asked them to take care of the no-start condition.As far as the battery switch goes, what position should it be in? Is it ok to leave the dual battery switch in the "both" setting? Or should I alternate back and forth between operating and starting on the two batteries?Thanks Again

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              • #8
                Re: Battery question

                I just posted a similar thread (accidentally) on the general forum, but I'll move my question over here since it is similar...I am thinking of a new setup for my two battery system on my 17' whaler w/ 90hp johnson. What I have now is a 1/2/Both/Off switch. As I understand it from all the posts I have read, the propper way to use this switch is to set it to 1 for starting, then to Both while running to charge both batteries, then to 2 while stopped to preserve the charging battery while running accessories. Only draw current on Both if the starting battery is too weak to start and you want to use the house battery for this purpose.Everyone seems to recommend balancing the batteries (using both that have about the same charge characteristics), but this doesn't make sense for mine and many other installations since I have different needs from each. One battery is a starting battery, the other is a gel cell. The boat sits in the water, unused for long periods of time, so the gel cell is to run the bilge pump. Currently, everything is hooked to the output of the switch, so I have to switch between Both for charging while running to 2 for accessories while fishing to 1 for starting and... see the problem? It is too easy to leave the switch in the wrong place, try to start from the depleted gel cell and have a dead battery that puts a big load on the charging system. Or to leave it on the starting battery, run the electronics and not have the juice to start easily.What I am thinking of doing is following the advice in the West Marine catalog -- they suggest using 3 on/off switches, one to connect 1 battery to the accessories, one to connect the other battery to the engine and the third as an emergency bridge to use the house battery for starting. In order to charge both, they recommend using a battery combiner device... something that works like a couple of diodes but without the voltage drop so that both batteries charge when the motor is running but don't drain one into the other if they have imballanced charge. Diodes are much simpler and cheaper, but then neither battery gets properly charged.What do people think of this setup? Does anyone see any problems with this (other than the expense of 3 new switches and a battery combiner)? Suggestions on how to accomplish the same thing for less money? I have seen advice to join them with a solenoid switch and a push-button, but this seems to be a bit more complicated and only saves the danger of leaving them bridged accidentally.

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                • #9
                  Re: Battery question

                  Indeed a very technical subject. I'm not an expert in battery design or installation - but I (like every other power boater) want ot know the best power rig for my electrical needs. There are many good sources from experts (you'll have to search) and the summary advice is as follows (hope I don't screw it up):[1] Use the same battery types. Reason: Batteries have "acceptance rates" whcih are "read" by todays advance charging systems and by trying to charge both, one battery (or both?) will NOT get the expected charging results. I'd heed their advice here.[2] Buy the type that makes the most sense for the useage you desire. Either Gel/AGM (for deep cycle results - AGM was the best) or starting only. Dual purpose was not looked well upon by most (only a few were game on them). If your needs fall toward deep cycle types (you figure it out why), then you can easily serve the CCA and MCA requirements by looking at the numbers. Generally, this means bigger deep cycle batteries (certainly at least one group up).[3] Make sure your charging system matches the battery type. You will also have to do the research here, but it's not "all for one and one for all" where this is concerned. For most OB types, dual purpose types may be the best you can do. some gel and AGM type require different charging reqiurements.[4] All batteries are not equal. AKA - don't go cheap![5] Dual battery systems (or banks if you are fortunate to be a yacht-type) are generally best (assuming you have the room for 2). Be careful with the installation. Keep em real clean! (leaky voltages and discharge damage to electrics)Hope this helps (and this was a summary!)PS - I also have a Yamadog 200 SS II (1999). I have dual SeaVolt Dual prupose group 27 which are rated for 745 MCA. I looked up the reqirements from my owners guide and they recommended a min of 512 CCA and 182 reserve mins.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Battery question

                    If you have dissimilar batteries, and your main concern is charging both simultaneously from one alternator, I would really suggest a battery isolator -- with or without the switch(es) (and I would personally do it without the switches). Without an isolator, different batteries and charge rates, etc., will present problems in insuring both batteries are charged.I think West Marine has been active in marketing a "combiner" which probably is essentially an isolator. They seem to do so with the additional recommendation for one or more battery switches --looks to me like you would have to be an electrical engineer to install and maintain the system. There was a prior thread on this. Do a search under "battery combiner" or something similar, and you might hit on a raft of additional information.Good luck....and keep it simple....

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                    • #11
                      Re: Battery question

                      Batteries batteries batteries, what a neat subject...The reason there is so many questions and opinions on the subject is cause there are so many variables in how they are used...In general......>Don't leave unmatched batteries connected together when not running.(one may drain the other over time)>Don't rely on the O/B charging system to replenish "troller" or "house" batteries if they have been deeply discharged (takes way too long)>Don't waste money on a combiner if you don't use a shore powered charger, or regulated charging system. Their "claim to fame" is less voltage loss than a isolator. With a non-regulated charging system, we have ample voltage to contend with.In my opinion.....>for an O/B system with 2 batteries (one for backup)*use a 1,2,all,off switch and alternate each time out from 1 to 2 (this will give maximum battery life) >for an O/B system with a "start" and a "troller" battery/batteries*use a 1,2,all,off switch. Use the all position for emergency starts.*charge the trollers with shore charger>for an O/B system with a "start" and "house" battery/batteries*use a 1,2,all,off switch. Use the all position for emergency starts.*charge the house batteries with shore charger**Isolators (diodes) can be used effectively on dual battery systems when a non-regulated charging system is present. **leave the battery switch in off position when boat is unattended (less fire hazard)
                      Alias "schematic"

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                      • #12
                        Re: Battery question

                        Well, I'll confess I just bought a battery switch for my inboard. I bought the one with the alternator field disconnect because I'm absolutely sure I will screw up at some point. I haven't installed it yet.My experience with an isolator was with a dual battery system in a runabout with an 85 hp Evinrude -- unregulated system. One battery was used only for starting, and the other battery ran everything else. They were both deep cycles of similar size, and both seemed to charge up nicely. This still looks attractive to me because of it's simplicity, and the fact that it is a passive system. I used to periodically charge both batteries with an A/C charger, by the way, by unhooking the starting battery from the motor and then charging both batteries through the isolator (disconnected the starting battery from the motor because I was a little paranoid about messing up the outboard's charging system). That seemed to work fine too.Schematic -- appreciate the useful summary.

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                        • #13
                          Re: Battery question

                          I'll need a little help on this answer...here goes. Take a look at the dual battery switches. It clearly states "all" is for starting only...switch back when running or serious damage may occure to the electrical system. As I undestand it the diods(?) in the rectifier will be damaged and you'll have to replace rectifier ($200.00 plus). Comments! (I have Perko switches)

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                          • #14
                            Re: Battery question

                            PS: I'm talking twin 175 HP Evinrudes using dual bateries with Perko switches...

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                            • #15
                              Re: Battery question

                              PS: I'm talking twin 175 HP Evinrudes using dual batteries with Perko switches...

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