Water in Outdrive - What to Check?

jmb23802

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Oct 13, 2014
Messages
79
First off, please excuse my long post, but want to get all the facts across so I hopefully get good feedback. Ok, please read on...

Just bought a used boat in August and only took it out once before the birth of my third child and some other stuff going on this year so had to winterize it after just one day on the water (oh, it hurts!!). Boat is an ’03 Four Winns bowrider with less than 200 hours on the hour meter (freshwater only) and appears to have the original VP 4.3GL/SX I/O as far as I can tell.

Fast forward to a couple of weeks ago (baby is doing well, btw), I drained the outdrive oil and for the first few seconds after pulling the drain plug the draining outdrive oil looked very clean and good – good sign, I thought. About 3-5 seconds after pulling the drain plug, the clean outdrive oil started to change and I noticed faint white streaking in the oil, then heavier white streaking and some black streaking as well for a little bit, then the white streaking would flow heavier and ebb lighter as the rest of the oil drained out of the drive – I would guess the white streaks varied from 0%-50% of the volume of the draining oil flow, with most of the time the streaks being 10%-20% of the flow, according to my eye.

I checked the drain plug for metal shavings or filings on the magnet while everything was draining and there was just a little bit of very fine filings that looked like a metallic shimmery slurry, which I would expect to see as normal wear over time in a high-load gear assembly such as an outdrive or automotive differential, but I don’t know how long it has been since somebody wiped off the plug magnet and if that was very recently then maybe it is not as normal as it would appear. Regardless, there wasn’t much of it so I felt good anyway at the time.

So, I have to get the outdrive water leaks fixed. The bellows look original and the prop has taken some hits along the way so the input shaft and prop shaft seals are my prime targets to check for leaking seals at this point but obviously I won’t know until I do a vacuum test and explore further.

The real issue I am concerned about for now, however, is that I don’t know what damage, if any, may have been caused by the water in the oil since I don’t know the history of the boat (prior owner did not provide maintenance records and was not overly talkative about maintenance details). I don’t have any idea how old the outdrive oil was (may have been changed last season or at the time of sale and so the metallic filings are normal/excessive?), how often the outdrive oil was changed in the past (how long was water sitting in the drive between changes in the past?), or how long the drive had been leaking water internally and causing corrosion issues. The boat obviously did not get used a lot and the prior owner confirmed this when he talked about his experiences while owning the boat, so who knows how long the water has been seeping into the outdrive and sitting in there corroding parts.

At this point, I do not feel like I have enough data points to make an accurate assessment of the drive condition and I am tentative about replacing some seals to fix the leak and ignoring a potentially larger problem waiting to happen inside the outdrive if there is damage (corrosion) already done. That said, I need to be wise with my money and throwing more than a couple hundred bucks at it for potentially unnecessary work “just in case” would be considered a very bad scenario in my opinion and not really an option to be considered yet (hopefully it is obvious that I wouldn’t be posting here if I had lots of money to throw at the situation). What I do need is to get as much data as possible to make the right decision about the drive condition but do not know where or how to go about this. Everywhere I read on the internet about water in the oil nothing is ever stated about assessing problems from water damage before they cause catastrophic problems – rather the only advice offered is to fix the leak and carry on, and maybe carrying on and monitoring the drive closely for a while is all that can be done, but would like to hear some feedback before I go forward with a wait and see approach.

Is there anything I can do without tearing the drive apart to get some comfort that the drive is in good shape internally before I fix the leaking seal(s) and carry on? Anything at all? I have no problem removing the top plate to look for corrosion in there but beyond this not sure what to look for or how/where. I am fairly mechanically inclined, longtime DIY'er with automotive and small engine stuff at home, and methodical so not afraid of basic stuff but don't have the tools or money to get deep into the outdrive on a witch hunt unless there is more evidence such a project is warranted.
 

Saline Marina

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Sep 9, 2014
Messages
162
This would be my take. Change the oil with the proper stuff. Do some lake testing next year, and see whats up. You have to consider the possibility that the previous owner may have never changed the gear oil, ever, and so what you see isn't anything out of the ordinary for the sum of many seasons.

One of the issues with a gear drive like this is as it gets hot and cold there are alternating pressures on the internal oil bath, possibly surrounded with water. The gearcase can't have an effective vent to equalize pressures like an industrial gearbox as that would make things a lot worse, overall.

I think in another year you will know whether you have a problem needing attention, or if it can be properly managed by annual oil changes.

Obviously you can pressure test & vacuum test the drive and see if it holds, forgot the details but I glossed thru them in the VP manual for the gear drive itself. I would think with pressure testing there would be a visual indication of which seal is having issues with soap bubbles or Snoop or the like.
 

tpenfield

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jul 18, 2011
Messages
17,627
My advice would be . . . Do the pressure test to ID the potential source of leak and get that issue corrected. Then fill and flush the outdrive. Fill again and go ahead and use it. Check the oil seasonally, to see if you are continuing to get any metal build-up on the drain plugs.

Not worth a disassembly or anything like that, unless it is demonstrating signs of internal wear.
 

skydiveD30571

Lieutenant Junior Grade
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Feb 13, 2012
Messages
1,042
As for the metallic shavings, I believe the general mindset is that small shavings are to be expected as you mentioned. As long as you cannot feel them in between your fingers. If they are big enough to feel, you may have something else going on. I know my lube changes look a little sparkly every time.
 

bruceb58

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Mar 5, 2006
Messages
30,456
I agree with what Tpenfield said.

In addition, make sure you replace all the o-rings on all the plugs when you do your gear lube change. This needs to be done every year you change your lube.
 

jmb23802

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Oct 13, 2014
Messages
79
[FONT=&quot]Thanks, I appreciate the feedback everyone.

Perhaps I am overthinking and making myself nervous here. Seems like a consensus here to fix the leaks and take a wait and see approach since nothing else seems to be raising flags to me at this point. Before I mothball the boat in the barn for winter, I think I will take tpenfield's advice and drain the drive again (I put el cheapo oil ($4.99/qt) back in it last time since I knew I would be draining it to fix the leaks) to make sure I have all of the water out, then fill it back up with fresh el cheapo gear oil for winter storage.

In the Spring, I think I will pressure test the drive and address the leaks while I have the drive off to replace the bellows. I think the internal condition of the bellows, input shaft, and gimbal will tell a lot of info about what might be going on with water in the drive (won't be surprised if there is water in there). Hopefully I will get lucky and it is just a leaky seal on one of the drain/vent plugs as I doubt the prior owner ever changed them.

Once sealed up, I think I'll just do as prescribed above and run it as normal then do a mid-season oil change again (before we take our big lake vacation on Dale Hollow Lake in TN) just to be sure everything is looking good. Since I don't have any gritty/chunky accumulations on the drain magnet and there were no noises/vibrations while running the boat I suppose I can only assume all is ok for now and keep an eye on it until I get some more hours on the drive and see how it goes.[/FONT]
 

skydiveD30571

Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined
Feb 13, 2012
Messages
1,042
I would atleast pull the drive and check the inside of the bellows. Water in the bellows can rust the input shaft which destroys the input shaft seal allowing the water to get into the drive. You definitely do not want to leave the boat sitting all winter with water in the bellows because it can cause a lot of other problems. And if it is dry in there, there's no problem waiting until spring to do the pressure/vacuum tests.
 

Mnoverboard

Seaman
Joined
Sep 14, 2014
Messages
51
Fill er up with the VP GL-5 gear lube and monitor through season. When I bought my boat (same engine/drive as yours) outdrive oil was nasty- don't think it was ever changed. I flushed it, and filled it and so far so good. Wouldn't worry too much about outdrive at this point, those SX outdrives are pretty robust, .. Could probably fill it with rocks and water and she'd keep on going
 

jmb23802

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Oct 13, 2014
Messages
79
I would atleast pull the drive and check the inside of the bellows. Water in the bellows can rust the input shaft which destroys the input shaft seal allowing the water to get into the drive. You definitely do not want to leave the boat sitting all winter with water in the bellows because it can cause a lot of other problems. And if it is dry in there, there's no problem waiting until spring to do the pressure/vacuum tests.

Skydive I think that is a great point about leaving water in the bellows. I was going to wait until Spring and let my cash reserves recover from the boat purchase then buy the tools to build an outdrive jack/stand, alignment tool, etc. At this point, I may pull the outdrive if I decide I can wrestle the outdrive with brute strength just to get it off and see how everything looks in there. If a jack is going to be required, I will probably just leave it until Spring as I am not entirely sure the bellows are actually a problem.

If the bellows are leaking, corrosion likely would already be a problem anyway since the boat sat quite a bit with the PO and I only had it out once for a few hours and the chances of the bellows rupturing during my one trip are probably slight. Pay now or pay later, it's a "crap shoot" at this point.
 

K-2

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Apr 3, 2011
Messages
406
I am not familiar with the XS but can't you get the one end of the bellows off, or off enough to see if water is in there without pulling the drive.
If you get some blocks of wood and build up under your skeg the out drive is easier to take off, make it so you never have to lift up the whole weight of the drive.
I use a come along hung from above, but not everyone has this option.
 

dypcdiver

Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined
Nov 1, 2005
Messages
1,016
Remove the drive as soon as you can, any water in there can cause expensive damage. It is not difficult and can easily be done single handed, check out some of the cheap and easy to make stands in the this post:- http://forums.iboats.com/forum/engi...es-outdrives/51288-building-an-outdrive-stand
I use the nose wheel on the trailer to adjust the height of the outdrive and lower it onto my stand. You need the drive off to do a proper test for a leak.
 

skydiveD30571

Lieutenant Junior Grade
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Feb 13, 2012
Messages
1,042
I pull my drive myself each fall and I don't have a stand. There are great designs out there, but I haven't had trouble doing it manually yet. It's awkward and heavy, but I just set it to the side to check things over then put it back. If you have to move it any distance, you'll want a rolling stand.
 

further

Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined
Jun 18, 2009
Messages
1,031
Pulling the drive is pretty simple. I used a furniture dolly and framed out a stand so its movable and easily rolled under the drive and out when I unbolt it using the trailer jack to raise and lower the drive onto the stand.

Took all of about an hour to put together with some leftover 2 x 4's I had laying around.
 

jmb23802

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Oct 13, 2014
Messages
79
As a follow-up on my water in the outdrive issue, it appears that the O-rings on the dipstick, vent and drain plugs had not been changed in some time, which became obvious when I replaced the o-rings this Spring. After replacing the O-rings, I ran pos/neg pressure tests and the drive held pressure overnight each time (up to 16 psi and 16 in/Hg) so we'll see how the oil looks when I drain it at the end of season but the pressure test feels promising.

Bad news when I pulled the outdrive this Spring (I built a stand similar to further's above), there had been water in the bellows and you could see the rust on the u-joints and the gimble bearing so I ended up replacing those, but probably would have had to do this even if I had pulled the drive last fall as it appears the water had been in there more times than just my day on the lake and had permeated the u-joints thoroughly. Lesson learned the hard way: don't pay so much attention to the shaft alignment that you ignore the shift cable when installing the outdrive - ended up bending mine and had to replace it. Ooops...
 
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