Volvo Penta Raw Water Pump

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cozilla

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Re: Volvo Penta Raw Water Pump

Cozilla,
Do you have your pump off?
Can you remove the impeller and take a detailed pic' of the shaft/lip seal beneath the impeller so we can get some kind of idea of what shape it is in?
Thanks!

I will see if I can get down to the boat this evening and take it off so you can see a pic.
 

insttech1

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Re: Volvo Penta Raw Water Pump

Yes that is the seal.
I got mine from Grainger; it is made by SKF, so you can order it thru nearly any industrial supply or pump/bearing/seals related stores.

If you order it as a "marine" part from a marine parts store, it runs $18 to $22 for the exact same part number that's $4 from the industrial places.
 

insttech1

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Re: Volvo Penta Raw Water Pump

I"ll try and get my pic's off my phone and on this thread later tonight....I'm at work (don't tell:embarassed:)

Yes that is the seal.
I got mine from Grainger; it is made by SKF, so you can order it thru nearly any industrial supply or pump/bearing/seals related stores.

If you order it as a "marine" part from a marine parts store, it runs $18 to $22 for the exact same part number that's $4 from the industrial places.
 

insttech1

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Re: Volvo Penta Raw Water Pump

CAM00125.jpgCAM00126.jpgCAM00128.jpgCAM00129.jpgCAM00131.jpg
In this order:
Impeller (one fin backwards because I was playing with it....they should all be same direction)
Pulley removed, and slip ring that needs to be pulled before driving out shaft from housing
Pulley setup (backing made of brass; they did bend with pulley removal, but pulley not damaged)
Pulley setup #2
Old seal
 
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insttech1

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Re: Volvo Penta Raw Water Pump

CAM00132.jpgCAM00133.jpg
Shaft after removal from pump housing
New seal and socket used for installation
 

insttech1

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Re: Volvo Penta Raw Water Pump

Order of instructions:
Remove pump
Remove back of housing; remove impeller.

If ONLY replacing seal:
Look down shaft where impeller came out.
The lip seal is likely brown and nasty. It should be grey or black (see pic's above).
GENTLY figure a way to get this seal out. It looks like rubber, but it is hard as a rock (and so is the new one!).
You can use dental tools, small drill bits, etc... to get to the lip seal, pull the metal ring off, make holes in the lip seal body, and pry it out carefully.
Do NOT scrape anything against the metal shaft, because if you do, you can destroy the portion of the shaft where it meets the lip seal, and actually keeps the water out.
You can also get creative and find a way from the back side of the housing to push on the REAR edges of the lip seal, forcing it up the shaft. This will take TIME and PATIENCE as this is BRASS around the seal, and you do not want to damage any brass around the seal seat, or the steel shaft itself. A pair of needle nose pliers and a 3/8" long by 1/8" diameter bolt of piece of metal may help you push the seal out from the back side. Just push on it a bit, turn the housing 1/4 rotation, push, etc.....

Once the seal is out, you need to clean the gunk/corrosion/rust looking material off the shaft completely where it mates with the new seal. Be creative. You can cut up pieces of scotch brite pad, force them down where the seal was, and turn the pulley so the shaft self-cleans the crap off by scraping against the scotch brite. Do not use heavy sandpaper, anything metal, etc....as any damage to the shaft and you have just wasted your time and $, plus more $ for a whole new pump!

Once the shaft is clean, ensure all debris is remove from the lip seal seat and the shaft w/ a qtip, etc....and slide the new seal down the shaft. Once you get it to the bottom, this may be the fun part. I did mine with the whole assembly removed, but you can install a new seal by getting something SIMILAR to a deep well socket the seats INSIDE the seal, will bottom out against the inner edge of the seal, and not apply pressure to the outside or inside of the seal.
Basically you need something 19 to 20mm OUTSIDE diameter, and about 1 to 1.5mm thick, that can press the seal in place.
YOU need to verify that dimension, as I installed mine with the whole assembly out, and didn't have to deal with the shaft in place.
When you replace the impeller, it tells you to use glycerin. I was out. I used vegetable oil, and I am sure that utilizing light glycerin or vegetable oil on the shaft and seal when inserting the seal would be helpful.
Make sure it seats fully down against the seat, and does not protrude above the recess it goes into. Make sure it's in squarely.

If replacing seal AND BEARINGS:
Center punch shaft in exact center of pulley rotation.
Drill hole w/ 1/8th inch drill bit to make something that the puller will rest on, if you have one with a hardened point. Otherwise, you'll have to ensure your puller shaft seats against something that is smaller in diameter than the hole in the pulley, so it will come off the shaft cleanly.
Install puller and ensure it is "square" to pulley by rotating pulley and adjusting puller "jaws" until puller is straight to shaft.
Place whole assembly in a vice that will clamp to the pulley (NOT THE PUMP--it's BRASS!)
Heat pulley w/ propane torch, but just enough to warm it up a bit (maybe 40 seconds near end of shaft).
Use 1/2" ratchet to get pulley removed. Ensure it is coming off straight during removal.

Remove retaining ring w/ snap ring pliers. Do not discard.

Invert pump/shaft assembly and place it over two blocks of wood in such a way that shaft can be forced down through the housing while using hammer and small chunk of wood, striking the end where the impeller would go. (This may go a bit easier if you heat oven to 200 degrees and place entire assembly in over for 20 minutes or so.) You are driving TWO bearings out of the brass assembly during this procedure, they are press fit, they are rather tight, and again this is BRASS! so drive everything squarely and take your time.)

Once shaft is out (see pic above), remove and discard oring. (It will be replaced.)

This is the fun part--getting the bearings off. You can warm the assembly, but I recommend NOT melting the rubber seals on the bearings. You can get VERY creative and use a series of properly sized deep well sockets (I used 1" OD 1/8th wall aluminum tubing) to push the bearings off. They only go ONE WAY! The shaft is 15mm on one end, and 16mm on the other, so obviously the bearings should be pressed off in the direction of where the pulley was pulled from, NOT toward the keys cut for the impeller!)

OR, you can take this to a shop and have them press the bearings off. Discard the bearings. DO NOT DO NOT discard the stainless spacer between the bearings!

Assembly:
Clean shaft w/ scotch brite pad or ultra light sanding w/ 600 or so grit paper, on the bearing side.
GENTLY take a file and round the very end of the shaft where the bearings will go back on, then lightly sand/chamfer this corner, so there are no sharp lips for the new bearings/pulley to catch on during install.
On the other (dirty) side, use scotch brite pad to GENTLY remove rust/corrosion. You should see a bright ring around the shaft where the old seal was trying to hold water back. That's normal. If it's a groove, that's bad. This portion of the shaft IS YOUR WATER SEAL. If you have major scoring here from the old lip seal, or you gouge it or remove material, the shaft is useless and will LEAK! You can take a wire brush to clean all the crap out of the grooves where the impeller goes.

Bearings: Either figure a way to do this right and STRAIGHT, or take it to a shop w/ a press!
Use lots and lots of light oil here, and or heat shaft lightly to improve bearing installation. Too much heat WILL MELT THE GREASE inside the bearing, so you do not want too much heat!
Press first bearing on, absolutely ensuring pressure is only applied to the inner ring of the bearing where it meets the shaft. If you press on the seal of the bearing, the shield of the bearing, or the outer portion of the bearing, you WILL destroy it.
Seat first bearing completely down the shaft to the lip (you can easily see this "lip" as this is where shaft diameter changes from 15mm to 16mm and has a slighlt radius. It will stop on its own. Push the last 1/16" very carefully to prevent damage to the bearing.

Install spacer. It just slides on.
Press second bearing on, until it just touches the spacer enough so that the spacer doesn't easily turn w/ finger pressure. You don't need to slam this 2nd bearing down against the spacer very hard.

Install new seal into pump housing (see above).

Install new oring.

Now more fun....getting assembly back in.
You can warm the housing up a bit in the oven, or run a torch over it lightly for a few seconds to just heat it a bit.
Start insertion of the shaft into the housing, ensuring brass housing is sitting FIRMLY AND SQUARELY on a block of WOOD. If you set it on anything else, you will mar the brass surface.

Gently start insertion with a rubber mallet, and turn housing 1/4 turn after every 2-3 blows so bearing is going into housing squarely.
After first bearing is in about 3/16", you're pretty good from there, but keep turning the housing as you insert the shaft assembly just to make sure all is straight.

Watch your depth....as the 2nd bearing enters the housing, you only want to seat it far enough so the snap ring can go back into place, and NO further. So keep an eye out for the snap ring entry line, and again, be very gentle on the last 16th" of entry of the assembly.

Re-insert snap ring (aka retaining ring).

Now for the pulley:
Again you can SLIGHTLY warm pulley or end of shaft, but not too much heat or you'll melt bearing grease.
Place entire housing again on WOOD, and WOOD ONLY to keep from marring the brass. (It helps greatly to have someone holding the piece of wood so the whole assembly doesn't bounce back up, as this is useless and frustrating, and none of the energy is actually transferred into forcing the pulley onto the shaft)
Place pulley on end of shaft.
With rubber mallet and small piece of wood, strike pulley gently, turning 1/8th turn every 2nd stroke, to ensure pulley is going on straight. Once it's on about 1/8", then you can strike harder until pulley is fully seated, but still rotating pulley every few taps of mallet until end of shaft is even w/ front face of pulley.

Now you're done and can re-assembly pump just as if you were doing an impeller change.
 
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cozilla

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Re: Volvo Penta Raw Water Pump

insttech1 how has the pump held up since replacing the parts? Was wondering if I should still consider doing this or get a new pump. I have read in an older thread how the pump started leaking shortly after the replacement of the ring was done.
 

insttech1

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Re: Volvo Penta Raw Water Pump

I read that too.
However, mine is not leaking a drop.
And if you just replace the seal for about $5, and clean the shaft, then you may save yourself $300.
If it leaks after that, then I would think your shaft is worn.
You do need to be careful when replacing the lip seal; it looks like rubber, but is definitely not.
It is more of a "malleable, hardened plastic", and if you don't seat it squarely, or your tool deforms
the edges of the lip upon insertion, then you have just made another leak.
For the $5 I paid for mine, you might as well buy two, just in case you mess one up.

And just one FYI--the lip seal that I referenced has four micro-lips around the area where it
mates with the pump body. That means a better water seal than the OEM one that I removed.
(Of course the water leaks probably come from the inner lip, but it doesn't hurt to have extra
seals on the outer edge as well.)

First things first though--why don't you remove pump/impeller, and then remove the existing seal,
and clean/inspect the shaft to ensure it's not worn/pitted.

If the shaft is clean (see pics for bright shiny ring around shaft--no pitting/damage), then just
clean the shaft w/ scotch brite to remove corrosion, and replace the seal.

If the shaft is worn, then there's your answer--you have to buy a new pump....:mad-new:
 
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dypcdiver

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Re: Volvo Penta Raw Water Pump

Mine hasn't leaked a drop in the last 5 years since I replaced seal and bearing, probably only approx. 150 hours. I have a new bearing and a viton double lipped seal ready to go in when it does leak, much cheaper than a new pump.
 

cozilla

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Re: Volvo Penta Raw Water Pump

isnttech1 is there a good way to get the lip seal out without removing the shaft?
 

insttech1

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Re: Volvo Penta Raw Water Pump

never tried it; pulled my shaft out first.

however, read my instruction post; get creative; it lists a couple of hints on how to pry on the back side of the seal and push it up out of its seat. Think small L-shaped tools such as allen wrenches, etc....but just don't scratch the shaft! maybe wrap whatever tool you're using w/ some electrical tape first.

Or, you can try and drill/punch holes from the top, get a small tool like a dental pick through the hole, and pry it out that way.

You will destroy the old seal; don't even think about reusing it.
 

slag

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Thanks for the step by step instructions. I got my shaft out last night, pressed the bearings off, pressed the new ones on, and seated the new seal in the housing. Now I just need to press the shaft with bearings back in and put a new impeller on and new gasket. Question. What is the purpose of the O ring on the shaft? It sits in the middle between the impeller housing and the bearings and I can see it on the shaft. It doesn't hold anything back, so why is it there?
 

Dmack60

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I replaced the impeller in the sea water pump after I discovered it would not pull water out of my tub up into the pump. Unfortunately that didn't fix the problem. I put on the muffs and turn on the water but nothing comes out of the intake hose at I pulled off the pump? I pushed the end of the hose int the open inlet hose and I go get water flow out of e intake slits on the outdrive. I have never worked on a boat before and have no specific I boat knowledge but am somewhat mechanically inclined. I put another hose hose on the pump intake and hooked the hose to it and I can push water through the engine and out the back of the boat but it doesn't come out of the exhaust in the outdrive it comes out of a slit in the back of the boat just above the plug hole. Is there a hose of some kind that connects the exhausted water to the outdrive exhaust? 1991 Glastron. Thanks for your feedback!
 

sltaylor1024

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Dmack60...we went through the same thing with ours, even tried a big tub of water, for some reason the ears or the tub of water did not work. We took ours to the river and put it in the water and it worked fine.
 

Dmack60

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It has worked for the past 4 years but won't work now. We have about 23% left in our nearby lakes so not much chance of getting it in the lake. Thanks for your reply.
 

dypcdiver

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Firstly please tell us what kind of engine you have as we are in the dark, a bit like the "I have a noise coming from my engine, what might it be?"

Sounds to me like you are sucking air from somewhere. A short length of clear hose on the suction side will show bubbles if it is a hose, oil cooler, Transom fitting, "O" rings on the drive leg or even the seal that is located in the lower gearbox.
If you don't get any suction then check the seal on the pump and check that you have the correct impeller and that you only have one "O" ring mounted on the body of the pump, a common problem as the "O" ring sits in a recess that is difficult to see.
 

slag

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Again, what's the purpose of the O ring? It doesn't seal anything. It's halfway down the shaft right out in plain sight in a groove. Doesn't seem like it would do anything at all which is annoying because I can't figure out its purpose.

The seal is what keeps the impeller housing watertight and does not allow air in. The bearings are sealed and pressed into the other side. Why is there an O ring sitting in the middle of both sections doing nothing?
 

Dmack60

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1991 Glastron 22 SL, Volvo Penta DP outdrive. Is there a flexible hose from the water manifold beck to the outdrive?
 

Sparkinator

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Figured I'd bump this old thread. I just finished replacing the seal in my pump and it went really smoothly. The old seal came out easily and went in smoothly as well. I picked at the outer edge of the seal with a small phillip's screw driver and it came out easily. It looked like the seal had gotten hot and deformed a little, so that may have helped it come out quicker. I used some light oil on the new seal and it helped with the install. I used a 11/16 and a 18mm deep socket and they set down into the bottom of the seal so it could be seated evenly. I'm not sure which one seated better, but those were the 2 that fit closest.

​I'll try to remember to update this thread whenever I try it out, but I have no reason to think that it isn't fixed. My pump only had a drip, so glad I could fix it without having to buy a replacement pump. The drips aren't too much off a PITA, but the water leaking does get on the drive belts and stretch them. Also, the leak allows the pump to drain when not in use. Starting up with the pump dry shortens the life of the rubber impeller. Hopefully, all that is put to bed.
 
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