1999 four winns 190 with volvo penta 4.3 GL with SX won't start after initial tests

[CHIPPEWA]

I have a 1999 four winns horizon 190 with a volvo penta 4.3L GL engine with SX outdrive. After being on the lake for the first time this season (maybe a month ago) for 45 minutes of running solid, my boat decided not to start. and it hasnt since. The boat did not die when I hit a wake pretty good sized wake, but it did not start the next time after that happened (a few minutes after). The noise the boat was making was a grrrrrrrrrrr sound, which I believed was the starter not engaging the flywheel. After trying to tap the solenoid, we got towed in a rather short distance luckily. After reading some forums on here I concluded that the bendix might be bad. After taking the boat to a mechanic that quoted about $400 to replace the starter, I decided to purchase one off the internet and replace it myself (the mechanic separatly said the bendix is what the problem is). Replacing the starter with a new one wasn't very difficult. Then the first turn of the key made a somewhat different noise, but still did not start. The 2nd and 3rd tries sounded exactly like when i was stuck on the lake with a grrrrr sound. When I replaced the starter i did notice a few imperfections on the ring gear. I would say it was chewed up just a little (didnt look that bad). The old starter was not original (actually dated from 2009, before I owned this boat) and had a few imperfections in the cog as well. I then turned the crankshaft to see if the starter would catch a better section of the ring gear. All but one of the wheels turned when I used a wrench to turn the top right wheel, only the one on the lower left did not turn. The same grrrr noise persists. Is it possible the aftermarket starter did not work at all? Is it possible the original starter was not faulty? Am I not properly turning the crankshaft to rotate the flywheel/ring gear? I did not test my battery with a meter, but I did charge it on 12v 40amps for over an hour, and the battery isnt more than 3 yrs old. and the connections were tight. I looked through a trouble shoot posted by 'don s' but I'm not sure of what a 'good ground' is exactly, and I think replacing the starter was kind of what that trouble shoot was for anyways( which I did due to a mechanics opinoion in addition to mine.). So I am hoping that its the wiring or something else that is wrong so I dont have to lift out the engine. Please let me know what else I can check. When I took off the starter, the purple ground wire was not even connected at all. I did put it on terminal D from the troubleshoot image. There are other wires that are not connected and I suppose former mechanics (including the person who quoted me $400) might have not done things by the books. I am currently researching the best way to build an A-frame over the boat and buy a chain with a winch to haul out the motor, however I don't know what else I could do as of now other than replacing a flywheel. Please advise. Thanks this is my first thread so let me know if I could have better done it.

 

[Maclin]

Re: 1999 four winns 190 with volvo penta 4.3 GL with SX won't start after initial tes

Has the crankshaft actually turned since this happened? I guess I am asking if the one "wheel" that is not turning is the crankshaft pulley. If the engine has not turned over since that last wave then it may have ingested water from that last wave and be hydro-locked.

Easy enough to check for that, take the spark plugs out and see if water comes out of any of the holes.

 

[CHIPPEWA]

Re: 1999 four winns 190 with volvo penta 4.3 GL with SX won't start after initial tes

The wheel that was not turning was the one with two hoses coming out the front of it. maybe 1.25'' in diameter. I removed the spark plugs and no water came out. I then tried to turn it with a wrench and the same thing occured where the lower left wheel would not turn. this wheel also has 2 separate belts that go to it.

thanks

 

[Maclin]

Re: 1999 four winns 190 with volvo penta 4.3 GL with SX won't start after initial tes

How long has it been since the incident?

Can you post some pics of the front of the engine showing the items you are describing? Maybe from that we can tell if it is the engine crank that is not turning or an accessory that has siezed. Hopefully pics would show what is turning and what is not from your descriptions.

 

[CHIPPEWA]

Re: 1999 four winns 190 with volvo penta 4.3 GL with SX won't start after initial tes



is an image displaying, tried to attach a jpeg

 

[CHIPPEWA]

Re: 1999 four winns 190 with volvo penta 4.3 GL with SX won't start after initial tes

so there are 4 wheels that should spin together one on the upper right, one lower right, one sort of in the middle and one below it. the one below the one in the middle is the one that is not turning with the others. the upper right one is the only one i can put a wrench on, and i sort of have to help push the belts when i turn it otherwise the belts wont move at all.

 

[CHIPPEWA]

Re: 1999 four winns 190 with volvo penta 4.3 GL with SX won't start after initial tes

I think it has been about 6 weeks since it happen.

 

[nitwhit]

Re: 1999 four winns 190 with volvo penta 4.3 GL with SX won't start after initial tes

Using your pic for reference the pulleys (or wheels as you called them) are top right = alternator, lower right = power steering (has a cap/reservoir to check & add fluid), top middle = engine water pump (with large rubber hoses attached), bottom middle = engine crankshaft (this drives the belts to turn all of the belts and pulleys.

If the crank pulley won't turn with all 6 spark plugs removed then you probably hydrolocked the motor from the large wake coming back through the exhaust. When hydrolocked, the starter will not spin over the motor due to the water in the cylinders. Since it has been so long now, the motor may not still turn over even with the plugs out since they were not removed to allow the water to be expelled immediately afterwards. If water sits in the cylinders, rust starts forming pretty quick and will "freeze" the piston rings to the cylinder walls.

Remove all of the spark plugs and try to turn over the engine using a socket/breaker bar on the bolt on the crank pulley. It should not require much effort at all with the plugs out. If that won't work you can further determine if an "accessory" is locked up vs. the engine, by taking all the belts off and try again (or just do this in the first place). If the rings are frozen, you might can get them unstuck by squirting lubricants in the spark plug holes if you're lucky. If it did indeed hydrolock, hopefully you did not bend a rod or anything by grinding on the starter for so long.

Also, make sure your new starter is a marine rated one. You don't want to get it going again and KABOOM when you hit the key.

 

[Maclin]

Re: 1999 four winns 190 with volvo penta 4.3 GL with SX won't start after initial tes

Good stuff nitwhit, we are on the same exact page, thanks.

 

[CHIPPEWA]

Re: 1999 four winns 190 with volvo penta 4.3 GL with SX won't start after initial tes

Thanks for the reply. The thing about the crank pulley on this model is that there is no visible bolt on it. There are two hoses that come from it. It appears I could disconnect the hoses and the metal piece that acts as a cap. But there may not be a bolt under it. There are 3 Allen bolts in the pulley but I don't know how easily that would turn it because they are not in the middle obviously. I will attach a picture

 

[CHIPPEWA]

Re: 1999 four winns 190 with volvo penta 4.3 GL with SX won't start after initial tes

Can't figure out pics fromthe iPhone so will have to wait. But if you look closer at te first pic it's like a cap on the pulley.

 

[Don S]

Re: 1999 four winns 190 with volvo penta 4.3 GL with SX won't start after initial tes

That "Cap" with the 2 hoses coming out of it is called the raw water pump. It rubber impeller lives inside of it. That is what keeps the engine running cool.

Look at this link.
http://www.volvopentastore.com/Seaw...on_id.323349761--store_id.366--view_id.791157

.

 

[CHIPPEWA]

Re: 1999 four winns 190 with volvo penta 4.3 GL with SX won't start after initial tes

So what is the best way to rotate the crank pulley given the raw water pump is there. Should I remove that to access a bolt tht may be there. Or can I somehow use a Allen wrench to turn the wheel. Not sure how to turn it! And thanks for te replies and info.

 

[Don S]

Re: 1999 four winns 190 with volvo penta 4.3 GL with SX won't start after initial tes

With the spark plugs out and the belt tight, you should be able to turn the engine with a wrench on the nut on the front of the alternator.

 

[CHIPPEWA]

Re: 1999 four winns 190 with volvo penta 4.3 GL with SX won't start after initial tes

So my belts must not be tight. Turning the alternator just causes the alternator to turn and te belts just slip. When I push the belt along with turning te alternator all but the crank pulley moves. What is the best way to tighten the belts? I noticed the alternator could be loosened and pushed further away from the other pulleys then tightened, but how can I do that effectively? Thanks again

 

[Maclin]

Re: 1999 four winns 190 with volvo penta 4.3 GL with SX won't start after initial tes

... or the engine is siezed.

I have been able at times to grab both sides of a belt that goes around the crankshaft pulley, pull up on both sides to get it tight for traction, then pull harder on one side to get the crank to move.

 

[CHIPPEWA]

Re: 1999 four winns 190 with volvo penta 4.3 GL with SX won't start after initial tes

I sort of pinched the two parts of the belt that goes from the alternator an turned it. It worked to turn the crank. Then when I went to start the engine. ( forgot to prime it) I turned te key too much and i think I broke te key starting mechanism as it now acts as if I am turning the key all the time. So after about 30-45 seconds I was able to take one of the cables that goes to the battery off so prevent further noises that did not lead to the engine starting. Now I figure I need to replace the turn key mechanism. I could just touch two of the wires that go to the key ignition together instead of replacing it with a new one at te moment. Not really sure what is really wrong with it now. But an ignition sounds necessary.

 

[jpelle68]

Re: 1999 four winns 190 with volvo penta 4.3 GL with SX won't start after initial tes

I had the same exact problem with my 04 5.0GXI-E. I experienced the same grinding (not engaging issue) and replaced the starter thinking it was just a bad starter. The new starter did the same exact thing, so I tried three different starter shims and had no luck. I thought the starter might be defective, so I decided to buy a second one, which made the same grinding noise as the others. I also rotated the engine to varify that it wasn't siezed and to inspect the flywheel. The flywheel had some metal shavings form the starter gears, but didn't have any signs of wear.

Finally I noticed that the starter was not perpendicular to the bell housing and suspected that the bolts might be bent slightly. I installed new gm starter bolts, torqued them to 45 ft-lbs (spec) and used lock tight. With the new bolts, the starter was perfectly spaced and perpendicular to the bell housing. The engine started right up and I have had 100+ successfull starts since. The starter was replaced by the previous owner and aparently the bolts were not torqued properly and/or the starter bolts were not replaced. Over time the bolts loosened just enough for the starter to actually bend the bolts. I have since learned via other forums and a gm tech that it is very important to replace the bolts and torque the starter correctly when replacing it. There are knurls on the top of the bolts, just below the thread, which are designed to help hold the bolts tightly into the block. When you re-use old bolts, the knurls can be slightly worn and can prevent them from doing their job.

 

[CHIPPEWA]

Re: 1999 four winns 190 with volvo penta 4.3 GL with SX won't start after initial tes

thanks for the info, did not know that 45 ft lbs was spec. here is a photo of my flywheel in the area where it stops turning. Got her started one time last week after getting a new battery (only once). autozone tested my old battery as good, but good was not cutting it. think the ring gear is too damaged even with the spec torque and lock-tite? (I just used a smaller ratchet as tight as i could make it previously (not 45, will have to get a torque wrench)) The engine turns now, but stops when it gets to this point on the flywheel. I supposed after its warmed up it wont need the entire flywheel to start, but that doesnt exactly fix my problem.
Thanks.

 

[CHIPPEWA]

Re: 1999 four winns 190 with volvo penta 4.3 GL with SX won't start after initial tes

please can someone look at the picture of my flywheel and deem if it needs replaced. thanks, chipp-e-wa