Need help please with AQ125B w/270 outdrive (correction: 280)

[vladens]

Hey, everyone!

So, quick background:
Found a "good deal" on '86 Bayliner Capri 19' w/ AQ125B w/ 270 outdrive. It was "almost" completed project. According to seller he bought it in crappy condition couple years ago & started restoring it. Replaced floor & carpet, re-upholstered some panels & some seats. Couple weeks ago just before I picked it up he "serviced" the motor (there is fresh oil &coolant in it). But he never started it because he didn't finish the project.

Problems:

1)No start/no spark
First it didn't crank, but I jumped the neutral safety switch & now it cranks but no spark. We traced & checked wiring, found out the points weren't working. Replaced them with HotSpark module. It seems to be working because it sends power back to coil, but still nothing coming out of the coil. I assume I need a new coil, but we tried another new coil that is just below the specs required by HotSpark, but we thought we try anyways (according to HotSpark if coils resistance is too low it can cause misfire when module overheats, we were cranking literally for a 1-2 seconds at a time) just to see if we get spark. Still no spark.
We are ordering a new coil, but I wanted to see if you guys have any input on this? Fixed

2) Fuel tank was full with water that smelled a little bit like gas, but certainly it was not gasoline. I was easily able to put out fire with it... How does a 18-20 gal tank gets full of water? Vent out let in the back? Idk...

3) No fuel was spraying into carbs when cranking.... Possibly bad fuel pump? Jets clogged? I still didn't get to figuring that out, working on ignition now. Works now.

4) Forgive me if I don't know the right terms; I've never owned inboard/outdrive before. I'm missing couple of parts. One is the very last part that connects outdrive to steering. I have everything on the inside that goes to the back of the boat, but not the part that connects to outdrive. Let me know if you want to see a picture.
I looked up parts diagram and it seems like the part is called yoke, almost y-shaped type of arm, but when I looked at the outdrive I couldn't figure out how a part of this shape would connect there.

5) Another part(s) missing is for tilt (or trim, still don't know the right term). There is nothing that looks like it would lift outdrive. When I push the button on the dash I heard a motor or solenoid working in the back, still didn't get a chance to look in the back what's actually moving. Certainly not the outdrive. Figured it out!


I'm sure I'll have more questions later, but these so far are the one I have on my mind. First I want to make sure the motor is good....

 

[Mullin]

Re: Need help please with AQ125B w/270 outdrive

Re: Need help please with AQ125B w/270 outdrive

1) Are you checking for spark from the coil wire or plug wires? Could be the spark is getting to the distributor but not out. Check the spring loaded carbon button in the middle of the inside of the cap. It needs to push down onto the contact plate on top of the rotor.
Also check that the coil wires are hooked up properly.

2) Gas is not flamable, only it's vapor is. You can put out fire with gas, I've done it before. But, Condensation will occur and over time will add a lot of water inside the tank. Think of a sweaty drink cup, but in reverse.

3) Fuel does not spray when cranking. It will squirt a little when you pump the throttle, that's what the accelerator pump does. Otherwise its the vacuum of the intake manifold that draws fuel from the carb. The carb is probably gummed up from having gas sit in it over time. Carb cleaner and some gaskets is all you will need. You can check the fuel pump.

4)There is a steering rod and a steering yoke. You may try these guys: http://www.sterndrive.com/boneyard.cfm?cat=Volvo-Penta

5) The lift mechanism is just above the starter on the transom.

Good luck!

 

[vladens]

Re: Need help please with AQ125B w/270 outdrive

Re: Need help please with AQ125B w/270 outdrive

Thanks for the reply.

1) We were checking for spark both at the plug itself and the distributor. I didn't notice a button in the distributor, but I'll look for it next time.

2) That seriously was not as; it was water that very remotely smelled like gas. But I won't worry about it for now.

3) Thanks for this info, that helps.

4) I'll figure it out I'm sure.

5) There doesn't seem to be any mechanism outside that would lift it.... but I could be wrong.

 

[Nickypoo]

Re: Need help please with AQ125B w/270 outdrive

Re: Need help please with AQ125B w/270 outdrive

4) I believe the steering part you are looking for is called the steering helmet.

5) Mullin is 100% correct on the tilt mechanism. It's the unit sticking up on the right side as you are looking at the motor on the inside of the boat. That unit extends a ram through the transom plate and engages the outdrive at the top left if you are looking from the rear of the boat. The point of contact is right near the left hinge on the outdrive.

 

[vladens]

Re: Need help please with AQ125B w/270 outdrive

Re: Need help please with AQ125B w/270 outdrive

OK. I see now what you're saying about the lifting mechanism.... I'm pretty sure I'm missing some sort of link there.
I'll attach the picture here.

 

[Don S]

Re: Need help please with AQ125B w/270 outdrive

Re: Need help please with AQ125B w/270 outdrive

For one thing, that is not a 270 outdrive, it's at least a 280 lower unit. There should be a tag on the upper gear box, just in front of the top cap, that has the model number of the drive.
The lift mechanism is inside the boat, mounted on the transom shield. It has an electric motor on the side, and a relay box on top.

 

[vladens]

Re: Need help please with AQ125B w/270 outdrive

Re: Need help please with AQ125B w/270 outdrive

OK, maybe lets o back to square 1 and try to identify what outdrive & engine I have. I said 270 because that's what it says on the cover (which was not on the outdrive when I picked up the boat). Same with the motor, it says AQ125B on top of the carb.
Here are some more pics.

 

[Don S]

Re: Need help please with AQ125B w/270 outdrive

Re: Need help please with AQ125B w/270 outdrive

In your picture showing the tag on the drive, the first 3 numbers are 280, that indicates the upper gear box at least. The lower is a 280 just by looking at it. The back cover was probably a replacement when the original fell off and was lost. Happens more than you think.

The engine looks like a 125, no problem there. The tilt mechanism is visible in your picture.

This pic should help too.

 

[Nickypoo]

Re: Need help please with AQ125B w/270 outdrive

Re: Need help please with AQ125B w/270 outdrive

OK, maybe lets o back to square 1 and try to identify what outdrive & engine I have. I said 270 because that's what it says on the cover (which was not on the outdrive when I picked up the boat). Same with the motor, it says AQ125B on top of the carb.
Here are some more pics.View attachment 143554View attachment 143555View attachment 143556View attachment 143557View attachment 143558

The engine is definitely an AQ125B, the question is what kind of lower unit that is.

Perhaps at one time they replaced the lower unit with a different model and reused the 270 cover. I'm not aware of the differences between 270, 280, etc, but I do know they look very similar. I would assume they both use the same steering yoke and steering helmet. That's what appears to be missing on yours.

On the end of the steering cable on the engine, is the arm that it's attached to attached to anything? That arm should be attached to the steering yoke that comes through the top of the transom plate. Then the steering helmet connects the yoke to the outdrive.

 

[Nickypoo]

Re: Need help please with AQ125B w/270 outdrive

Re: Need help please with AQ125B w/270 outdrive

Whoops, posted the same time as Don, sorry for the redundancy.

But I just noticed that the L metal that the steering cable pivots on looks massively bent. That should be straight.

 

[vladens]

Re: Need help please with AQ125B w/270 outdrive

Re: Need help please with AQ125B w/270 outdrive

Don, I understand that that's the mechanism. What I'm wondering about is if there should be a link/arm of some sort on the back side (where I circled red in the new picture).

Also attached couple picture of where steering arm is, and it's apparently not connected to anything. It should be connected to a yoke? Is that the part that actually goes thru the back wall? And then the "helmet"?

I appreciate your patience with this.
View attachment 143570View attachment 143571View attachment 143572

 

[Don S]

Re: Need help please with AQ125B w/270 outdrive

Re: Need help please with AQ125B w/270 outdrive

I knew things looked wrong in some of your pictures, just couldn't get my mind wrapped around what the problem was. You are missing the steering fork and helmet that attaches up through the transom shield through the steering arm, and hooks to the upper gear box.

You are missing (at minimum) items 2 and 13 in the picture below

 

[Nickypoo]

Re: Need help please with AQ125B w/270 outdrive

Re: Need help please with AQ125B w/270 outdrive

Yup,

#2 is what I was referring to as the "yoke"

#13 is what I was referring to as the "steering helmet".

Of course there are probably bearings, seals, or other parts that you may need to go along with them too.

Also make sure to check out that L-metal I was talking about. Yours looks twisted axially.

Your most recent pictures don't seem to be working.

 

[vladens]

Re: Need help please with AQ125B w/270 outdrive

Re: Need help please with AQ125B w/270 outdrive

Ok, thank you all for the input.
Regarding the L-bracket, I will take another picture later and post it. There is a bend in the bracket, but it looks like if it was manufactured that way... unless we're talking about different parts.

Good news is that I'm finally getting a spark now. Turned out HotSpark installation instructions weren't exactly correct, but that's fixed now. The problem now is that engine still won't start. Fuel is getting in, we've tried spraying starting fluid, and the best we've got was backfire out of exhaust after few seconds of cranking. And I mean pretty strong & loud backfire. We still haven't set the timing after converting the distributor, I'm waiting for another friend to come over that has timing light and knows how to do it. I'll replace spark plugs too. Any other ideas?

 

[Nickypoo]

Re: Need help please with AQ125B w/270 outdrive

Re: Need help please with AQ125B w/270 outdrive

Ok I looked at pictures of your boat online and I guess that L-bracket is supposed to be twisted. Mine is straight but I have a different year.

I think you should get it timed and go from there. Make sure everything on the timing belt is timed correctly, and that includes the shaft that the distributor is driven off of. It wouldn't be a bad idea to check the condition of the timing belt and replace it if it looks questionable while you're in there.

 

[sqbtr]

Re: Need help please with AQ125B w/270 outdrive

Re: Need help please with AQ125B w/270 outdrive

I have read that the hot spark pickup trigger points could be as much as 30 degrees off from where the points would fire.

Start with a static time and fine tune after you get it running.

 

[vladens]

Re: Need help please with AQ125B w/270 outdrive

Re: Need help please with AQ125B w/270 outdrive

OK, before setting timing we went ahead and checked few more things....
Under the valve cover we noticed 2 first cylinders had little bit of "milkshake" by the cam; the other were clean. We cleaned that out and tried cranking the motor more, and after some time cranking water came up to the top of the head. Doesn't look like there is any oil with that water. However on the dipstick we get clean, fresh oil.
It seems that we're gonna be be taking the head off, replacing gaskets etc., hoping that's the only issue. But where would that water be coming from?

 

[vladens]

Re: Need help please with AQ125B w/270 outdrive

Re: Need help please with AQ125B w/270 outdrive



That's a water there in the head.

 

[Nickypoo]

Re: Need help please with AQ125B w/270 outdrive

Re: Need help please with AQ125B w/270 outdrive

That's no good. Hopefully someone with more experience on this issue will drop by here and give you some direction.

From what I understand water in the oil could mean a blown head gasket, cracked block, etc.

Have you checked the compression?

 

[vladens]

Re: Need help please with AQ125B w/270 outdrive

Re: Need help please with AQ125B w/270 outdrive

That's no good. Hopefully someone with more experience on this issue will drop by here and give you some direction.

From what I understand water in the oil could mean a blown head gasket, cracked block, etc.

Have you checked the compression?

Not yet, not with the tester at least. We just pulled the plug, put a rag in there, cranked the motor and it blew out only couple of inches... Not saying that's an accurate test, but I'm being told that rag should've flew out of there.
So, we're planning on taking the head off this weekend, replacing all the gaskets, and than go from there....

I'm just trying to figure out how that water got there? Does anyone of some common issues? Or could it be "normal" for some odd reason? Oil in the pan is clean & fresh, no indication of water there.

Another question....
How does the cooling system work? Are there 2 systems, one closed with antifreeze and another one that pulls the fresh water? Can that fresh water get in the motor if head gasket is blown?
The (car) mechanic that is helping us (a friend of a friend) really thinks this boat has been under the water, mainly because the tank was full of water, water in motor, distributor rusty on the inside, interior partially replaced...