Chevy/Volvo 305 or 350 LongBlock Upgrade Advice

Ralph 123

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Jun 24, 2003
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Re: Chevy/Volvo 305 or 350 LongBlock Upgrade Advice

Yup I clearly got my terms mixed up. Short block, long block, small block, big block, block head :) <br /><br />Anyway, I was trying to figure out if these truck engines came with intakes and tin, etc. so that I could compare it to what I paid for Loooong block, small block chevy 350 marine remans from Marine Engines Inc, ... So, what I paid is around the same price which makes me happy ;)
 

rtfolse

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Sep 9, 2004
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Re: Chevy/Volvo 305 or 350 LongBlock Upgrade Advice

Originally posted by Ralph:<br />[QB] Yup I clearly got my terms mixed up. Short block, long block, small block, big block, block head :)
 

rtfolse

Cadet
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Sep 9, 2004
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Re: Chevy/Volvo 305 or 350 LongBlock Upgrade Advice

The Chevy crate motor I am about to buy for $1,399 at my nearby Chevy dealer is a "long block" (heads, timing chain included) plus tin (pan and timing cover and valve cover) all included and painted black. They call this a "long block plus tin" as most remanufactured long blocks do not include tin, you just replace your own.<br /><br />I am still researching, and I can replace the camshaft while the engine is out with the "correct" marine cam from Sierra parts, # 18-1484 camshaft for about $152 is as best I can tell the exact marine camshaft instead of the "truck is almost the same" camshaft and this is according to posts elsewhere here the one described in Dennis Moores small Chevy block for boats book (which I ordered from Amazon but seems to be now out of print). So the new Chevy crate plus this cam, plus a double check on freeze plugs to make sure they are brass will get me almost there with "new" for about $1,550.<br /><br />Now, what to do with distributor and intake manifold? My original manifold seems servicable, a little rust on the bottom, looks like it can be cleaned up if I bring it out and get it tanked. But, that will be say $50 bucks or so, so now I just swept the catalogues and an hunting up a manifold with many choices for about $150. Only problem seems to be one that will fit the pre 1986 bolt pattern. Seems complex because many of these have to match a camshaft configuration and so on, so I am probably just going to tank and then re-use my old manifold just for simplicity.<br /><br />My Rochester carb, found a volv-penta rebuild kit for about $27 from Boatfix.com. Old carb looks pretty clean to me, but will rebuild anyway. I do not want to buy a rebuild because I want all the exact little parts to fit all the exact little hoses and linkages that are in my boat. I feel more comfortable with just the same exact Rochester on the same exact manifold.<br /><br />Getting the distributor? Many choices for about $150. No decision yet but will probably go for an HSI electronic and see what happens, and keep my old one around just in case. <br /><br />All the hoses and gaskets seem to be at boatfix.com under Volvo-Penta. <br /><br />Also found a kit of all stainless steel bolts for the 350 engine for about $77. This is made by ARP and is kit 534-9601 and is described at www.arp-bolts.com and sold at boatfix.com. So probably not every single bolt, but probably 80 or 90% of them, and I will clean up the old ones for the few that are not in this kit.<br /><br />Bolt my old starter, alternator, fuel pump back up and if any of them have problems buy marine replacements from boatfix.com. So far $0 estimate they worked fine when the valve blew.<br /><br />Ahh, the raw water pump is actually the Chevy equivalent, and don't read any posts on this. Hard to tell what condition it is in because water pumps wear out bearings. So, I plan to replace the pump with a reman auto pump, and the other pump is marine and all I need to do with this is the new impeller that just slides in. None of the boat part sites list the raw pump just the second pump parts so I guess the auto equivalent will do the trick. <br /><br />Anyone have any worries about what raw water pump to get?<br /><br />So now this plan is up to about $1900 in parts. I am waiting to get my Seloc repair manual from Amazon and am praying they can find a copy of Moores Small Block Chevy Marine book before I actually buy all this just to make sure, but the above combination seems to do the trick. I want to read what Moore says I can get away with for marine use in terms of performance, but if I cannot get his book, replacing the cam with the exact marine cam for $150 seems to put me 99% of the way back to Volvo for half the price of a new Volvo.<br /><br />Distributor is only remaining real question, and suggestions would be helpful.<br /><br />My son owns an automobile cherry picker (Harbor Freight) and I went out to measure the geometry yesterday, and I will just make it or miss getting the engine over the transom by a hair. If I miss by a hair I plan to video tape the experience and will sell the DVD rights for a reality TV show that focuses on comedy, tragedy, with swear words and danger thrown in. The money I get from this DVD will be used to buy a brand new boat, and I will at that point just drop the engine through the bottom of the boat for a finale and have the whole mess hauled off to the dump.<br /><br />All the feedback on this site helps alot with all these decisions and this winter rebuild will be quite fun.
 

KaGee

Admiral
Joined
Aug 14, 2004
Messages
7,069
Re: Chevy/Volvo 305 or 350 LongBlock Upgrade Advice

I paid $1150 for my reman v-6 3.8 "longblock" w/brass plugs and supposedly a "marine" cam from RAPIDO MARINE in Miami. Everyone around here wanted twice that. Never heard anyone say anything about "crate" motors. Doubt mine would be available anyway.<br /><br />PS... IN OVER HEAD...<br /><br />I built an A frame out of 4x4s and 2x8s... cost around $70 in lumber and hardware. Bought a chain pull from Harbour Freight for $50.
 

jimmbo

Supreme Mariner
Joined
May 24, 2004
Messages
12,961
Re: Chevy/Volvo 305 or 350 LongBlock Upgrade Advice

From Dennis Moore's book.<br />GM has only made 2 marine cams for the stock performance small block chev. One is for where regular lifters are used(chev part # 340284, Mercrusier part# 431-5943), the other is for the roller lifters(GM# N/A, Mercrusier#431-811658)
 

Ralph 123

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Re: Chevy/Volvo 305 or 350 LongBlock Upgrade Advice

Anyone have any worries about what raw water pump to get?
Also from Moore:<br /><br />"A special circulating water pump is used on a marine engine; it may look like a standard auto water pump on the outside, but inside it has a stainless steel shaft, stainless steel seals, a brass impeller and a stainless steel backing plate."
 

rtfolse

Cadet
Joined
Sep 9, 2004
Messages
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Re: Chevy/Volvo 305 or 350 LongBlock Upgrade Advice

Originally posted by Ralph:<br />
Anyone have any worries about what raw water pump to get?
Also from Moore:<br /><br />"A special circulating water pump is used on a marine engine; it may look like a standard auto water pump on the outside, but inside it has a stainless steel shaft, stainless steel seals, a brass impeller and a stainless steel backing plate."
 

rtfolse

Cadet
Joined
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Messages
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Re: Chevy/Volvo 305 or 350 LongBlock Upgrade Advice

Based upon this last post regarding the differences in marine water pumps (this entire thread has been an incredible education for me) I actually found a marine water pump for $82.95 from -of all people-, Dennis Moore himself. It seems that he has now a website where he is starting to sell parts he makes, and this waterpump is one of them. Perrrfect.<br /><br />Here is his site, http://www.mooreperformance.org/Six.html <br /><br />I think now I have a plan for all the parts I need and am good to go. Thanks for the tip, I would never have known there was a difference in water pumps. His site really makes a case for his pump.
 

Ralph 123

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Jun 24, 2003
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Re: Chevy/Volvo 305 or 350 LongBlock Upgrade Advice

Before you swap the cam you should email him (since you are a customer now) and ask him if the truck cam will do the job and what other things you should look out for. You should tell him you want to buy a copy of his book too since you can't find it elsewhere... Just a thought...<br /><br />If you do contact him, please share the results with me. I am very curious for future reference.
 

tryan

Seaman
Joined
May 29, 2004
Messages
59
Re: Chevy/Volvo 305 or 350 LongBlock Upgrade Advice

if you take the tires off the trailer, you gain a little more room with the 'picker.' if your extending the boom, try to rid the block of as much weight possible. ie exhaust ect. if the casters can take it, add some weight to the back end. sac-o-mud, cinder blocks or something. if you know a wrecker driver, he might pull it for you.<br /><br />someone has made a better mouse trap for the 350 stat manifold. it's supposed to cool better at idle. i'll look it up if you have not looked into it. it's stainless to boot.<br /><br /><br />you might clip the springs on the exhaust valve guide seals. someone had a mercruiser service paper posted here i believe.
 

MURX

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Oct 21, 2001
Messages
117
Re: Chevy/Volvo 305 or 350 LongBlock Upgrade Advice

"Ressurection"<br /><br /><br />In Over My Head <br /><br />So it's been a year Hows your Truck ur um "marine" engine running. laughed when I read that you were going to use a chevy circ pump<br />and that you were going to switch cams<br /><br />I just read some guys rant about Engines and how He's 27 years old and been doing this for a long time <br /><br />I'm 21 with with 25 years experience and I've been doing this longer<br /><br />anyway I'm curious if you in fact bought the LM1 truck motor and wether you did or did not bother with the Cam<br /><br />Everytime I hear someone spout off about marine cams I ask the same question <br /><br />Does it have a Chevrolet part number? if so dosen't that make it a passenger car camshaft??
 

MURX

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Oct 21, 2001
Messages
117
Re: Chevy/Volvo 305 or 350 LongBlock Upgrade Advice

I'm not positive, and I'm not going to bother looking, but I'd guess that second grind is<br /><br />GM P/N 14097395 it came in the Mercruiser<br />Magnum 330 MPI<br /><br />my point, and I'm glad you asked <br /><br />the standard "limp wick" LM1<br />249hp 1200.00 motor will replace a 305/350<br /><br />200hp thru 260 hp engines with no noticebale difference in power or performance
 

Ralph 123

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Jun 24, 2003
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Re: Chevy/Volvo 305 or 350 LongBlock Upgrade Advice

**********************************************<br />Stock Marine Specs - Flat-based lifter<br /><br />GM Part No: 340284, Merc Part No 431-5943<br /><br />Duration @ .050: 200 intake, 212 exhaust<br />Valve lift in inches: .400 intake, .410 exhaust<br />Lobe centerline degrees: 108 ATDC, 112 BTDC<br />Lobe Separation Angle in Degrees: 110<br /><br />**********************************************<br /><br />Stock Marine Specs - roller lifter<br /><br />GM Part No: N/A, Merc Part No 431-811658<br /><br />Duration @ .050: 197 intake, 207 exhaust<br />Valve lift in inches: .430 intake, .450 exhaust<br />Lobe centerline degrees: 106 ATDC, 112 BTDC<br />Lobe Separation Angle in Degrees: 109<br /><br />**********************************************<br /><br />**********************************************<br /><br />Stock auto Specs - flat lifter<br /><br />GM Part No: 3896929, Merc Part N/A<br /><br />Duration @ .050: 195 intake, 202 exhaust<br />Valve lift in inches: .390 intake, .410 exhaust<br />Lobe centerline degrees: 108 ATDC, 116 BTDC<br />Lobe Separation Angle in Degrees: 112<br /><br />**********************************************<br /><br /><br />All the other stock auto's listed are rollers except the 327 cid/350 hp auto<br /><br />GM Part No: 3863151, Merc Part N/A<br /><br />Duration @ .050: 222 intake, 222 exhaust<br />Valve lift in inches: .447 intake, .447 exhaust<br />Lobe centerline degrees: 110 ATDC, 118 BTDC<br />Lobe Separation Angle in Degrees: 114<br />**********************************************<br /><br /><br />Here is Moore's recommended specs for a stock 350 w/ flat lifters<br /><br />Duration:<br />202-208 degrees intake duration measured @ 050" lift<br />208-216 degress exhaust duration measured @ .050" lift<br /><br />Lift:<br />0410-0430" intake valve lift with 1.50:1 rocker arms0420-.460" exhaust valve lift with 1.50:1 rocker arms<br /><br />Timing:<br />109-110 degrees intake to axhaust lobe centerline separation angle in camshaft degrees<br />108-110 degrees after to dead center intake lobe centerline position in crankshaft degrees<br />109-112 degrees before top dead center exhaust lobe centerline position in crankshaft degrees<br /><br />************************************************<br /><br />Suggested high performance aftermarket camshaft. Competition Cams XE 250 H Xtreme Energy Hydraulic<br /><br /><br />Duration:<br />206 degrees intake duration measured @ .050" lift lobe #5440<br />250 degrees intake duration measured @ .006" lift (advertised duration)<br />212 degrees exhaust duration measured @ .050" lift lobe #5207<br />260 Degrees exhaust duration measured @.006" lift (advertised duration)<br /><br />Lift:<br />.432" intake valve lift with 1.50:1 rocker arms<br />.288" intake lobe lift at the lifter<br />.444" exhaust valve lift with 1.50:1 rocker arms<br />.296"exhaust lobe lift at the lifter<br /><br />Timing:<br />110 degrees intake to axhaust lobe centerline separation angle in camshaft degrees<br />108-110 degrees after to dead center intake lobe centerline position in crankshaft degrees<br />110-112 degrees before top dead center exhaust lobe centerline position in crankshaft degrees<br />************************************************<br /><br />Source: Small Block Chevy Marine Performance: Engine Modifications for Maximum Boating Performance by Dennis Moore
 

rbezdon

Senior Chief Petty Officer
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Jun 20, 2004
Messages
689
Re: Chevy/Volvo 305 or 350 LongBlock Upgrade Advice

Ralph, Looks like all that typing you did for me is helping other posters too. Guess they'll all owe ya for the typing time too!! I chose a Comp Cam with .444 total lift (1.5 to 1 rockers) of .444 on both valves, 110 sep and 208/212 duration. Made an inprovement. I had the stoch auto cam I think put in by the reman place by mistake. (Flat lifters). Idle is great and good response so far. This is listed as a Marine Cut on the Comp Cam web site.
 

Ralph 123

Captain
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Re: Chevy/Volvo 305 or 350 LongBlock Upgrade Advice

Ya Ron, I'm trying to maximize the returns from my typing investment :)
 

Scaaty

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May 31, 2004
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Re: Chevy/Volvo 305 or 350 LongBlock Upgrade Advice

Originally posted by MURX:<br /> Everytime I hear someone spout off about marine cams I ask the same question ....<br />Does it have a Chevrolet part number? if so dosen't that make it a passenger car camshaft??
Why do you bother to post with obviously zero knowledge, even possibly LESS than zero. Jeeezzz, man, did you EVER think maybe, just MAYBE, that the major boat manufacturers that have been putting small block Chevy's in their boats for YEARS, have been going to GM and asking for a "truck cam-yeah, that'll work good nuff", without GM making a cam specifically for those boats?
 

MURX

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Oct 21, 2001
Messages
117
Re: Chevy/Volvo 305 or 350 LongBlock Upgrade Advice

Dear Sir, I only responded to this Gentlemans post<br />with one intention, to save Him some money. <br /><br />I didn't log on here to get into a testosterone injected battel of witts with some mouse wielding Leather executive desk chair mechanic<br /><br />the imformation that I provided here, came from my own experience Having Owned 15 Boats over 30 years of boating<br /><br />Note: I knew the difference between "short" and "long" blocks, long befor I opened my mouth, and had originally posted the camshaft specifications for all GM smallblcok chevrolet camshafts with their Chevrolet part numbers<br /><br />Every camshaft listed could have it's origin and specifications traced back to a GM "passenger car grind" some dating back to 1958 <br /> <br /><br />Furthermore, General Motor's own Nomenclature and product description for the universal LM1 350 engine That I originally suggested to the person who made this post states "Suitable for use in pleasure Boats"<br /><br />Their words not mine, Obviosly You know Better than I, or GM themselves Do<br /><br /> just curious Does a 1983 Bayliner Capri<br />that originally came with a 305 fit the descrition "pleasure Boat" <br /><br />I don't know what your perspective is, But From this High Back Leather Executive Desk chair it certainly does
 
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