New motor, new ECM no start

[Matt9712]

Started another post just so no one has to read 5 pages of frustration. In hopes someone might have another idea... I've had lots of great help but just haven't been able to figure it out.
Volvo Penta Gi-F 2006 5.7L New motor installed and wouldn't start. Ignition coil will fire ONLY 3-4 times while cranking no matter how long I crank.

I just replaced the ECM with a brand new $1600 one in a last ditch effort with no luck.

The new.
Motor
Risers
Batteries
Crankshaft position sensor
Camshaft position sensor
Distributor cap
Rotor
Ignition coil
Ignition module
ECM
Fuel pump

Code was originally 0336 Crank Sync Noise. I rotated motor by hand and verified the 5v switched on and off as required.

Any help would be GREATLY APPRECIATED! Summer is half over and I'm about $6K into boat this summer and can't use it

I have also ohmed out all wiring back to ECM and to sensors to prove nothing is broke. All grounds are connected and good.

 

[Matt9712]

**** If I unplug the camshaft position sensor the coil will fire consistently*****

 

[Fun Times]

When it's not running and only cranking over....Use a timing light connected to both the coil wire then #1 cylinder spark plug wire to ensure you always have spark happening while trying to start it. You need to make sure you always have spark. If you do then possible back to your known fuel pressure issues mentioned in your other thread which we should still be working off of vs starting a new topic. I may end up moving this one over there soon but will leave it for the time being....Just depends for now.

Another thing to try, have you opened the throttle handle while trying to start the engine which in turn will allow more air into the engine bypassing the Idle Air Control (IAC). Open the throttle to 1/4, 1/2, wide open while cranking. Also try pumping the throttle both slow and fast like the old days of carburation engines...There is a certain % of throttle that will turn the injectors off while cranking...It's called clear flood mode...If there is to much fuel being delivered, it may help start the engine for a bit of time. with the injectors turned off.

Re-check and clean the spark plugs too.

You may want to try a new fuel pressure regulator too.

Make sure no wire pin terminals have backed out of any sensor and ECM connector plugs.

Let me know.

 

[Matt9712]

Ya I just figured people might see the 5 pages and lose interest in seeing what problem is and what was done. So wanted to give the short and sweet version.
I do feel there is a fuel issue as well and am leaning towards the fuel pressure regulator. I pulled all injectors tested and cleaned they were not leaking and fired as expected when I had them out on external power source.
I just can't seem to figure out why coil is only firing 3-4 times then stopping. The Boat shop I brought boat to gave up and advised I put new ECM in boat. I truly didn't believe that to be problem, brought home checked, rechecked everything and found crankshaft to be sending the signal it should, Coil to fire when camshaft sensor unplugged, replaced camshaft sensor ( again). So with coil firing then I ruled out coil and ignition module which left me with same assumption mechanic had. That ECM was bad.... I ordered new one, got it today and installed which changed nothing.
I am at a loss now of what could be shutting my power to coil off after it fires a couple times.

 

[Dave-R]

I know you don't want to here this. Buy a Rinda Diacom. You can sell it when you get the engine in order. There are so many things that are going on with the engine, that you really have no idea whats kicking your but. It has a lot of tests that the engine can run through and it comes with the engine manuals. It will cost less than one trip to a Volvo dealer where the boat will sit till fall. My boat engine a 2011 Volvo 5.7 300-C sat at a dealer for 3 months till I went and got it . Then I bought a Rinda and could not only read and reset all the engine codes, but also all the other parameters that were also wrong and not throwing codes. I was chasing my tail, like you. Just my 2 cents. I really like the O2 sensor tests, and the fuel injector tests to tell you what is really working and what is not. My engine had been under water for months, and believe me electronics will kill you. Good luck Dave-R.

 

[Fun Times]

While i'm not sure we can find it online any longer, it would be best to find and use your engine serial number and buy a Volvo service manual that shows the correct wiring diagrams for your engine to help show you where all these wires are truly running to and from as Volvo is slightly different than others. To find the right manuals, you may have to use a Volvo dealer or contact Volvo Penta customer service asking them for the service manual part numbers needed then search them online such as iboats or EBay, dealers, etc., http://www.volvopenta.com/brand/en-en/contact.html

Also search online,

Volvo Bulletin P-23-7-3

Fuel Pressure Regulator, 4.3L, 5.0L, 5.7L

 

[Matt9712]

Thanks. Ya I have been thinking about a Techmate but I did bring to a shop and the only code was 0336. The shop then gave up on it when they became unsuccessful in getting to start.
I contacted Volvo in hopes they can give me some info on which manual applies to my specific motor. I got the Seloc a couple months ago and that was a complete waste of money.

 

[Matt9712]

Went on vacation and forgot about boat for a week....was much needed as stressful as thing is.

According to Seloc the reluctor wheel should be a 24X according to internet it's a 4 peaks type.
Looking at old motor and Going to verify what it has. But how do you take harmonic balancer off? It looks like it slides on but I can't get it slide off even with a deadblow.

Is it possible if it's a 4 peaks type that it could be put on wrong which throwing timing off?

Is it possible to check timing chain without dropping pan?

Also going to order Rinda on Monday. Would anyone recommend the techmate pro or PC software type over the other?

Thanks again for all your help

 

[Dave-R]

I used a three jaw puller, and a pneumatic air hammer to pull mine off. To install, I do not have a balancer install tool so I bought a 1/2" longer crank bolt, and very carefully pulled the balancer on until I could use the regular crank bolt. You do not want to strip the crank threads. Dave-R

 

[Matt9712]

Thanks! I've read about heating them to get them back on easier. Going to try and pull the one off my old motor to verify reluctor wheel type so probably won't put back on

 

[Matt9712]

Ok I got the techmate pro today!! 2 codes were stored...
0336 Crank Synch Noise
1642 Buzzer Open
Cleared both codes and tried to start again..still no start but battery is weak so I'm charging now I did however shoe RPM on reader while cranking tho...

Here is some more info I got from reader wondering if it makes sense to anybody...
IAC POSITION - 132#
CAM RETARD - 0.0 DEGREES
MAP VOLTS - 4.09
BAROMETRIC PRESSURE - 30.3 inHg
BAROMETRIC PRESSURE - 14.85 PSI
MANIFOLD PRESSURE - 30.3 inHg
MANIFOLD PRESSURE - 14.85 PSI
ENGINE LOAD - 89.5%
INJ PULSE WIDTH - 50.5 ms
TPS VOLTS - 0.82 VDC
THROTTLE PCT - 0.6%
MIN TPS1 VOLTAGE - 0.80 VS
ECT VOLTAGE - 2.72 VS
ECT SENSOR - 79 degrees
IAT VOLTS - 2.25
IAT SENSOR - 83 degrees
OIL PRESSURE VOLTS - 0.50 VDC
OIL PRESSURE - 0.33 PSI
OIL PRESSURE STATUS - LOW/IGNORED
IGNITION SWITCH VOLTAGE 10.9 - 11.1 ( won't stay still )
BATTERY VOLTAGE - 12.25 VDC
SPARK ADVANCE - 0.0 DEGREES
KNOCK AVG VOLTS - 0.0 VDC
KNOCK RETARD - 0.0 DEGREES
OCTANE RATING - 0.0 %
KNOCK INTENSITY - 0.0 %
FUEL FLOW RATE - 0.0 GPH
TRIM VOLTS - 0.34 VDC
ECT SWITCH INPUT - 5.0 VDC
WARNING HORN - OFF
MALFUNCTIONLAMP - ON
ENGINE DERATE 1 - OFF
ENGINE DEBATE 2 - OFF
LOW REV LIMIT - OFF
FUEL RELAY DRIVER - OK
IGNITION RELAY DRIVER - OK
HORN DRIVER - OK
MIL DRIVER - OK
TACH DRIVER - OK
IAC DRIVER - OK
SHIFT INTERRUPT - 5.0 VDC
INBOARD NEUTRAL SWITCH - 2.74 VDC
DUAL HELM INPUT - 5.0 VDC
MASTER/SLAVE - MASTER
ENGINE STARTS - 0
OPERATING HOURS - 0

This is all with KEY ON/ ENGINE OFF .

I'm sure a lot of this is useless info now but since I don't know what is good and bad I put it all down.
Anything stick out to anyone, any measurements look bad?

Thanks again

 

[Matt9712]

Also I've read about installing a valve in fuel rails to pressurize it and shut off pump to see if it's injectors or FPR anyone know where I can get those valves? I've looked at autozone and advanced auto online and haven't had any luck.

 

[alldodge]

Just looked thru the old thread and this one and their are no new folks commenting. Did notice this post when made but decided to just see if something else came up. I like everything together so I can look back thru post to maybe find something overlooked previously.
http://forums.iboats.com/forum/engi...ves/10425965-trouble-code-0336-with-new-motor

Also I've read about installing a valve in fuel rails to pressurize it and shut off pump to see if it's injectors or FPR anyone know where I can get those valves? I've looked at autozone and advanced auto online and haven't had any luck.

I think your talking about doing a balance test. You do this so you can determine IF any of the injectors are leaking more then within acceptable parameters. Can post some info on it if you really want to do it, but I still see your issue as electrical and not fuel. To prove its not fuel, squirt or pour an ounce of gas in and see if it fires even once

I see something that I would like to verify. Crank the motor and see if TPS and engine load percentage changes. Most these motors need full battery voltage and 12.2 is not good along with ignition volts

 

[Matt9712]

Ok thanks.
I pulled the entire engine harness out a little while ago so I can pull all the tape off and check each and every wire. Got about 30% untaped haven't found anything bad yet but I'm re taping as I go so it will stay in same form. What a major pain in the a$$ to take that whole thing out.

I believe it to be an electrical issue as well but when I have pressure guage on fuel rail it gets about 60 psi while pumps running but as soon as it shuts off all pressure goes right to zero within a second or two. So I wanted to check to see why I was losing so much pressure so fast.

 

[Dave-R]

All Dodge is right about voltage. Nothing will be accurate without a full charged battery. I am still baffled by what you stated in an earlier post about the crank sensor reluctor on the crank being the wrong type. Were you able to verify that it is operating correctly? Also did the Teckmate come with the engine troubleshooting manuals? They can be helpful also. Before you go into the fuel injection and pressure problems diagnosis, will the engine fire if you pour a small amount of fuel down the intake? When using the Rinda, it tested the TPS and the throttle positioner to see if they both agreed on the actual throttle position was where the TPS thoght it was. Are you still thinking also that you have fuel and ignition problems? I would like to see you figure this out. Dave-R

 

[alldodge]

I believe it to be an electrical issue as well but when I have pressure guage on fuel rail it gets about 60 psi while pumps running but as soon as it shuts off all pressure goes right to zero within a second or two. So I wanted to check to see why I was losing so much pressure so fast.

You already had the injectors tested, only thing left is the regulator, do think you replaced the high pressure pump

 

[Matt9712]

No the engine won't fire with gas down the throttle body. It's still doing the same thing.
With camshaft position sensor plugged in coil will only fire 3-4 times then stop. With camshaft position sensor unplugged coil will fire , boat will start run like crap for 15-20 seconds.
The Rinda didn't come with much as for troubleshooting guides more just a how to use it type guide.

Yes I have replaced the high pressure pump as well. I just wanted to try to prove it's FPR prior to buying a new one as it's getting really expensive as to what I've already replaced.

 

[alldodge]

Actually I think you have a bad ECM even thou it was replaced.

An easy out, but not at this point the cheapest is put a carb on it

 

[Dave-R]

The first time I bought a new ECM for my engine, a 5.7 SGi 300-C . The part # was the same as my old one, but when plugged into the Rinda Diacom it stated that the software installed was for an 8.1 engine. Whole different firing order and fuel management. I would have never known this without the Diacom. Can the Techmate verify your software is correct for your engine? Worth a shot to look into. It's got to be something stupid like that. I also had a similar ordeal, and all the I-boats guys got me up and running. Dave-R

 

[Bt Doctur]

the firing order is the same for small block and big block motors with standard rotation 1,8,4,3,6,5,7,2