VP 5.7 ignition timing - what to align?

[ch765]

Hi, I need help with ignition timing on a 1997 57GSIPLKD in a Chaparral SS2335. (The block has been changed by a workshop because of water in the engine.

From what I have learned I think the engine is a TBI-type with EFI. I've read the manual on of how disable electronic spark advance / enter "base mode" by jumping the black and black/white wires on the Data Link Connector.

The harmonic balancer has a mark and the engine block has a small notch. No other "ruler" or notches.

I'm struggling to find out if those two marks should be aligned when using a simple ignition timing lamp, or should I use one with "advance" that I can set to 8 degrees BTDC?

The mark on the block isn't on top ("at 12 o'clock") but rather at 1 o'clock when looking backwards.

Yes, I have read these two threads, but I have also learned from others that I don't need "advance timing lamp":
http://forums.iboats.com/forum/engi...23522-setting-base-timing-volvo-penta-5-7-gsi
http://forums.iboats.com/forum/engi...299-volvo-penta-5-0-gl-e-timing-marks-missing

 

[mklearl]

You need the advanced timing light set on 8 degrees if that is what the manual says. The timing mark on the harmonic balancer lines up with the v notch on the block. Those who do not need the advance timing light have a tape on there telling them how many degrees advance it is. You do not have that luxury. If you lined your marks up without the advanced timing light your timing would be at zero.

 

[ch765]

That's the problem: The manual says nothing about advanced timing light, it only says "adjust it correctly" or something like that.

From other forums (foreign language so no point linking to it here) others has told me that it should be adjusted with a "normal" timing light so that the mark on the hamonic balancer lines up with the v-notch, and the "electronic" will automatically adjust to 8* BTDC.

My problem is that the manuals don't state this clearly, and I'm getting different opinions. Thanks for the reply anyway. What would be the effects of running at 0* ?

 

[mklearl]

That's the problem: The manual says nothing about advanced timing light, it only says "adjust it correctly" or something like that.

From other forums (foreign language so no point linking to it here) others has told me that it should be adjusted with a "normal" timing light so that the mark on the hamonic balancer lines up with the v-notch, and the "electronic" will automatically adjust to 8* BTDC.

My problem is that the manuals don't state this clearly, and I'm getting different opinions. Thanks for the reply anyway. What would be the effects of running at 0* ?

What are you adjusting it to? There are only 2 marks... one on the block and one on the balancer. If you align this marks without an advance timing mark you are setting the timing at zero degrees. You need to be at 8 degrees. If your ba lancet had timing tape on it you would adjust with a regular timing light until the line matched up with the 8 degree btdc line. You don't have that tape so you need the advanced timing light set to 8 degrees. Adjust until the line and notch line up with the timing light set on 8 degrees btdc.
The effects would be a poor running improperly timed engine. What's the big deal with getting an advanced timing light?

 

[ch765]

No big deal with getting an advanced timing light, the problem is getting reliable information on how to do this from a link to a "offical" source.

Anyway, will borrow an advanced timing light to night and give it a try.

 

[Thalasso]

No big deal with getting an advanced timing light, the problem is getting reliable information on how to do this from a link to a "offical" source.

Anyway, will borrow an advanced timing light to night and give it a try.

You need an advance timing light that you can set to the desired degrees, then after you put it in base timing mode you just adjust to 0.​

[h=3]Volvo Penta Timing - Forums[/h]

forums.iboats.com/Volvo-Penta/Timing

​

 

[mklearl]

You need an advance timing light that you can set to the desired degrees, then after you put it in base timing mode you just adjust to 0.​

[h=3]Volvo Penta Timing - Forums[/URL][/h]

forums.iboats.com/Volvo-Penta/Timing

​

I think what people are telling him is that when the scribed mark is aligned with the v notch then that is 8 degrees btdc. That is false. When those marks are lined up you are at zero degrees. To get to 8 degrees you set the timing light to 8 and then align the marks. Make sense?

 

[Thalasso]

I think what people are telling him is that when the scribed mark is aligned with the v notch then that is 8 degrees btdc. That is false. When those marks are lined up you are at zero degrees. To get to 8 degrees you set the timing light to 8 and then align the marks. Make sense?

Yep

 

[ch765]

Aligned notches with advanced timing lamp set to 8* yesterday, went smooth, the engine now runs more smooth. (Entered base mode with a jumper between black and black/white first)

Checked also normal mode with light set to 0* - and the mark on the balancer went maybe 5 mm to the left looking at the front of the engine. Sounds right?

Thanks guys!

 

[ch765]

Tried to start it cold today, wouldn't start at all. I could hear a few "almost there" - but nothing.. I'll guess it will start again if I turn the distributor back again. Any ideas why this happens?

 

[mklearl]

What timing procedure did you use?
Warm engine. Manually set to 1000 rpms. Jump wires. Set timing. Stop engine. Remove jumper wire. Do not start engine with jumper wire in there. There is a tutorial in the stickies.

 

[ch765]

Did exactly that, except I removed the jumper wire before stopping the engine. (After the timing adjustment of course )

Today I increased the timing by turning the distributor until it started again. Then I measured it, and it read 29*.

Sat the timing to twelve , and it ran and started fine , adjusted itself to 8*.

Will wait till the engine is cool again and will try to start it again then..

 

[mklearl]

Interesting. I'm stumped. Let us know how it works out.

 

[mklearl]

I'm curious if you get a knock with the timing advanced that much aND the knock sensor retards the timing to where it should be. I'm not sureally if that's how it works or not.

 

[ch765]

Yes, that would be interesting to know. I'll guess it doesn't knock much on idle, and I don't want to take it to higher rpms on tour because I'm afraid to get detonation and destroy the engine. I not sure if the knock sensor retard have any limit on how much advance it can actually retard.

Anyway, I left the engine to cool for almost 4 hours now. It started immediately and ran fine. Went for a 20-30 min ride, a mix of idling, full speed etc. Everything fine, except it didn't wanted to go over 4000 at WOT, was expecting 5000. Return to the harbour and let it idle for 2-3 minutes. Opened the engine hatch and noticed it wasn't running smoothly, it was like didn't ignite on some revolutions.. Suddently it poof'ed out and wouldn't start again.

 

[mklearl]

Ignition module maybe? A symptom of a failing module will be that it will just fail due to heat. Once engine cools down it will start again and be fine until it heats up again. I have a 5.0gi and the manual states that "the distributes ignition module has only two failure modes. No spark and no spark advance." Perhaps that's why you had to advance the base timing so much. Would also explain the no start and rough running after it heated up. I'm by no means an expert so maybe someone else can chime in. Just my best guess.

 

[ch765]

Thanks for the tip, will a faulty ignition module show on a code tool?

 

[mklearl]

I don't think so but they make a tool specifically to check that. Tool is a's expensive as the aftermarket ebay module.

 

[ch765]

OK.
The coil is pretty rusty, could that be a problem? (Will check resistance etc as described in the manual later)

 

[ch765]

More testing today:
- Removed flame arrestor and watched gas spraying in. Tried also with starter fluid. Didn't start. Ruling out gas problems for now.
- Removed knock sensor, still no start.
- Checked spark plug cables were in correct firing order. (clock wise)

Turned the engine so the markings where aligned. Since it's unlikely that they're 180* off, I assume the pistons were at comp TDC.
Took photos with and without cap. Can see the rotor is a little ahead of spark plug #1, but that's OK since it's timed to 8-10* now?