twin 4.3 . Starbord was running, closed, starting moments later will not ?

al1026

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May 17, 2007
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I am in Florida and use boat all the time.
Recent months when engines are hot difficult starting. Have twin 4.3, When cold fires up first turn of key. Other times it fires up even when hot.
​Speaking with a tech a working engine is difficult too fix, Vapor lock we are thinking but engine room is cool. Engine temp is normal , thinking gets too hot cause water not cooling fuel cells not fast enough ? Ran a number times with engine hatch open too keep cool
No pattern on which engine would be difficult starting
​Start port engine start right away, Turn starboard cranks away , nothing . 1/2 hr later able too start .

​Other day I had engines running at dock 1/2 hr testing generator
I keep boat at a marina and boat is pulled and put into cradle when done for wash down
​At cradle I flush engines ,
Port engine started up right away & flushed .
Starboard, would not start, Damn was just was running but remember engine was hot
​Packed it in went home.
​Retuning days later, thinking too myself as I drove too boat, starboard engine should start right up

​WRONG- will not. Cranks away , sounds as if it wants too start but nothing
​These engines are Volvo 4.3 GXI fuel injected
I am used too a smaller 4 cylinder Mercruiser on my old small boat
. On these twin engines I dont like too work on them virtually no room too work or even view areas.
Has ignition module .
​ I had extra new gas filter and changed. Gas was clean
I never messed around with fuel injected, fuel rails,
​I forgot too mention when I was trying too start I was pumping throttle and back fired real load, with a cloud of smoke coming from rear smelling fuel ?? Flooded
What should I be looking at ? fuse, ? on top Fuel pump is working .
​Ignition module is expensive and my thinking is that, I can take the one off the running engine too test . How does one test a ignition module

​any ideas what I should be looking at is appreciated
 

alldodge

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Like with all EFI motors it really helps to have a scanner to read for codes, without it can be done will just take longer. Pumping the throttle on a motor does nothing except opening the throttle plates. If the throttle goes full forward it stops all fuel going in. This is only done if the motor is flooded.

When the key is turned ON do you hear the fuel pump turn on for a couple seconds?

What is the fuel model number GXI???
 

al1026

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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May 17, 2007
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101
ALL DODGE thank you for responding.
Think I have 4.3 GXI B ( written down someplace )
​2003 twin 4.3 GXI with Volvo drives
.
Back fire was ME flooding engine.
​Fuel cell is pumping. Smell fuel when I flooded and got back fire . Cells are 1 year old replaced new last season on both engines

There is a fuse box on top of engine , does ignition module require a fuse ?

​Engines were just running, boat was pulled and maybe 20 minutes later I wanted too flush engines and starboard wont start ? Cranks away, about too start, putters then shuts .
As I stated in my post I have had a issue starting both engines when warm . Cold start instant ,
Happened many times, and needed too be corrected
I leave it alone and it starts which is what I thought happened here on a warm engine, But days later when I returned still will not start
​I don't have computer too test only use 12 volt tester & common sense.
Most of my repairs I take a gamble and buy parts , most times I am correct .
​I have an other boat which has a old mercruiser 3.7 4 cylinder. Parts are reasonable , .
​Throwing parts on this Volvo engines is way too expensive
I will return this week and try again but preparing a call too a shop .
​Boat is a Regal Commodore 30 ft . Kept at a marina . I have a trailer too tow but boat is 9 thousand lbs wide beam. Not crazy about towing but in past called a few guys too come. Not happy with level of service , marina offers no repairs and only allows few vendor too repair boats on property
​When I have repairs I trailer boat inland too a shop I have used on my smaller boat .
 

lmuss53

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One fuel pump or two? Will it start if you put a teaspoon of fuel in the throttle body? Are there fuel filters that could be clogged, or full of water? If it fired, it is probably not the module. I think your lack of fuel original diagnosis will turn out to be the issue, I am counting dirty or watery fuel as a lack of fuel. I think your problem is in that area somewhere. A tablespoon of fuel down the throttle body that starts the engine for 15 seconds will sort of prove that out.

Take the air cleaner flash suppressor off and pour a tablespoon of clean fuel in the throttle body. Put the air cleaner suppressor back on and try the engine.

PLEASE BE CAREFUL WITH FUEL AND OPEN THROTTLE BODIES, MORE THAN ONE TRAGEDY STARTED WITH THIS SCENARIO. IF YOU ARE NOT COMPLETELY COMFORTABLE WORKING WITH OPEN THROTTLE BODIES AND FUEL, DON'T DO IT!!! IT IS TIME TO TAKE IT IN IF THAT IS THE CASE.
 

alldodge

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You have the HVS distributor, which use a cap that can look great but be non-functional. Many folks refer the cap to a crap cap. I would suggest start by replacing the cap, because even if its not the cap they can and do fail without notice.

When the engine is cranking the tach should move and show close to 300 rpm. There is a sensor in the distributor check the connector for any corrosion. When it doesn't start need to check for spark so we know if its electrical or fuel

https://www.marinepartseurope.com/en/e-volvo-penta-48-4.3GXi-B.aspx
 

al1026

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May 17, 2007
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A follow up, This is what happened yesterday
​Drove too marina here in sunny warm Florida . Sorry too all you boaters in cold areas. ( been there don't miss it )

​Shot some engine start in throttle body . If it was fuel would run brief second . No GO ., even has new fuel filter & fresh gas.
​Tested fuses. GOOD
No tester too test relays but swapped relays from running engine STILL NO START -
Thinking ignition module but not throwing expensive parts . Really needs computer read out .

​ Remember Port was starting
Batteries were getting weak and started port engine too get some juice into batteries
​After a minute port engine started running ruff, DIED - HOLY COW what is going on ?????????
NOW BOTH ENGINES ??????
I said in my first post BOTH engines were at idle at least 1/2 hr at dock while I was running generator. Just replaced generator water pump and wanted too make sure everything was working .
​Fuel in boat was purchased from marina weeks earlier and if there was anything in fuel would have not been able too idle at dock so long
Drove boat too staging area were boat gets hoisted out , yard drives boat into yard were I clean & flush engines.
That's when I discovered after running so long starboard engine would not start
port engine was flushed and idling on rabbit ears 10 minutes possibly longer
. .
One fuel tank feeds both engines . Separate fuel lines, Both engines have their own fuel pumps with fuel filters on each engine . VOLVO pumps and they were replaced new last season . (they are pumping ) I already had a problem with port engine pump failing and since dealer did install is covered 2 years . When it crapped out rather then bringing boat too them they tested pump and it was NG> Dealer gave me a new exchange and I did install .

Is there some sort of a control module in mother board that controls amount of fuel or a sensor that controls both engines ????
​THIS IS BEYOND MY GENERAL KNOWLEDGE
​Marina said since I am a in/out customer and get one hoist per day either a hoist too water or hoist too my trailer no additional charge
​9 thousand lb wide beam boat is a job and at boat ramp requires two so I am glad marina will put onto trailer .
​Trailered number of times and not fun . That's were a smaller boat is a breeze .
​During our FL winter, I bring boat into shop were it sits few months, gets service saving marina fees , sort of pays for service .

GOTTA LOVE BOATING
.
 

alldodge

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Doesn't sound like fuel is the problem it's electrical. Also don't think right now it's the ECM (control module). If both motors use the same battery to start, but even if they don't I would check connections.

Does the tach move up around 300 rpm while cranking?
 

lmuss53

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Bad gas, watery fuel is in both engines now.

A shot of starting fluid is not a tablespoon down the TB. I think if you do that the engines will start and run until that fuel is used up. I believe this is a fuel issue and the fact that it has moved to both engines reinforces that to me now. An engine will run on way dirtier fuel than it will start on.

I am an old school outboard mechanic, and I am thinking the basics here. Before I did anything else I would have to see what happened with a fresh shot of fuel down the throttle body. Just one fairly competent guy's opinion.

Crack a fuel line loose and fill a bottle with fuel from the tank, my bet is it has water in it.
 

al1026

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May 17, 2007
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IMUSS 53
​ Called shop too give them heads up too expect boat , I was telling their mechanic what I did and I asked if there is some sort of module controlling both engines , he said NO.each engine runs separate . No module too control both
​Since there is no main SOMETHING < SOMEWERE , I am beginning too think you are possibly on the money. Common denominator here is FUEL . Should have put a tablespoon of fuel like you suggested rather then Starting fluid
​Before I haul boat and spend a thousands I will put some fuel down TB . New filters again .
​How do one clean the fuel rails , what would you recommend some sort of additive or removal ?
I changed filter starboard engine last visit and filter seemed clean . Was looking for water and did not notice . Here were a good water separator with viewing canister is needed
​I purchased a few too install but was speaking with shop that changed the fuel pumps last season said that is not really necessary since they said the filter on the Volvo pumps are designed too stop water . BULL S___..
​Fuel tank is little less then full, hate too waist that fuel. Will put some additives in and just burn off then replace everything , providing I get it going .
thanks for your thoughts
Al
 

lmuss53

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I would try to pump a half gallon into a separate container by taking a line off at the fuel rail and set it aside to see if it separates. If it does I would do my best to get all the fuel out of the tank and run that through a lawn tractor or something that I won't be stranded if it won't burn.

If the fuel is contaminated I would just get all I can out of the tank, pump in about 10 gallons of fresh and run it by putting some down the throttles until it pumps all the bad out of the system, that should clean all the bad stuff out. You will know all the bad is gone when it will run on what the tank is providing.
 

al1026

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FOLLOW UP -
​As IMUS indicated common denominator is fuel , it was . " BUT "
​ Removed filter, on starboard engine, looked clean , no water , primed another new filter with fresh gas , added a table spoon of fuel too TB , ear muffs on, turned that key and it started - was SO HAPPY
idled 20 minutes , ruff in beginning, shut & restarted - few times. YHEA - were running

​Did same on port engine - YHEA running

Going back too starboard engine hour later, would not start. DAMN added fuel into TB , still would not start ????

​FUEL PUMPS again ??? an issue with Volvo & mfg Carter on these boats
Purchased 2 new pumps May 2015 . Dealer installed when I purchased boat .
​Starboard pump crapped out a year later May 2016 . Dealer gave me pump and I installed . 4 bolts easy- did not void warranty and did not want too wait weeks for dealer too come or me tow.
Volvo covers 2 years parts & labor if dealer purchased & installed .
Boat needs other stuff and decided too trailer inland too shop as discussed. Thankful that marina loaded on too my trailer.
​Towing a 30 ft boat was ok. Idiots on road another story .
​Will follow up when I know what's really going on
 

alldodge

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Added gas and it wouldn't run so to me is not a gas issue. Don't remember but has the distributor cap been replaced? I mention this because it needs to be ruled out of the equation.
 

lmuss53

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The one thing that has me puzzled is why both motors???

If it's going to the dealer and the warranty covers it that is outstanding. I'm anxious to see what they come up with.
 

jimmbo

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Where is the ignition module located, in the distributor, or blocked against the block? Heat can be an issue. Have you checked the engine for spark?
 

al1026

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FOLLOW UP - Found out what is wrong
​Would you believe low compression on both engines
​This is why it would start cold easily but difficult starting when hot
Last postings by me asking questions . Getting some good advice from fellow boate
​I have Sea Insure thru sea tow .
​When policy was sold too me you had too be a sea tow member . Supposed too cover internal breakdown of engine & parts as long as its not driver caused ?? BIG laundry list of what's covered , what's not , VERY VAUGE WORDING
​Shop is a Volvo dealer . Owner said no indication of any damage I caused. This is internal issue ,
​All fuel purchased from marina which is marine grade
​never over heated
​always changing oil, filters , maintaining boat especially since I am retired living in Fl and use boat weekly , engines flushed after each use.

​Put a claim in, last week.
follow up calls from office people too arrange how the shop can proceed with engine break down and who will pay etc .
not expecting anything will be easy dealing with insurance companies.
​ Keeping my fingers crossed , I did nothing too cause this damage especially on two engines
​Will keep you up dated

HAPPY NON BOATING FOR TIME BEING
 

alldodge

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Low compression can cause issues but I don't see that as the cause they won't start. In any case hope you get it figured out with sea tow
 
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