2006 5.0 GXI cranks but won't start

[Larson 206]

Thanks Muc!!! I will check this wire as soon as I get home.

 

[Larson 206]

Ok Muc that last post really helped. I can confirm we have positive power at the injector but no negative. I put a ground to the engine and used the power at the injector. The power is only there until the fuel pump shuts off. Someone said in a previous post that the ECM controls the ground. Thoughts?

 

[muc]

The ECM supplies the ground to the injectors. There are 8 drivers in the ECM 1 for each injector. Very rare to have all 8 go bad at once. I've never seen it before. I have had 1 driver go bad twice and 2 drivers go bad once. Not saying it can't happen --- just that I've never seen or heard of all 8 going bad at the same time.
When I looked at the wiring diagram, it looked like the injectors and coil got power at key on and didn't need anything from the ECM but I might have missed something.
I won't be able to help you much for a few days (away from the computer I access Volvo info on) so any advice from me would be off the top of my head.
One of your earlier posts said you had no power " I get .02 -.12 of a volt at the injector" now you say you have power at the injectors?
Try not to take this wrong. But at this point I'm second guessing your voltmeter skills. This might just be nomenclature thing that we are missing each other on (I've had trouble with some southern mechanics who will say that the engine won't "crank" and to them that means the engine won't start. To me that means the starter motor isn't turning the engine over ---- big difference) so maybe we need to discuss how exactly your doing your tests?

 

[bruceb58]

muc He earlier said he put fuel into the throttle body. Does he have TBI or MFI?

 

[muc]

muc He earlier said he put fuel into the throttle body. Does he have TBI or MFI?

wiring diagram shows 8 injectors so multiport fuel injection. he will still have a throttle body, but his throttle body has IAC, TPS and a butterfly --- no injectors

 

[Larson 206]

Yes you're right Muc. I have multiport injection. Yes the engine turns over and will start with gas down the throttle body.

What frustrates me is here you guys are trying to help me and tell me to get the codes read, so I hire a mobile VP mechanic to specifically come read the codes and he shows up without his code reader. So all he did was reconfirm everything I told him.

No offence taken with my multimeter skills. They are limited. So to answer your question of no power and now I have power. The first time I checked for power I turned my meter to 12 volts and checked to make sure it was working on the battery and reading correctly. The next step I did was unplug the injector and put the positive lead into the plug on the harness for the injector. Red one on the pink wire with green stripe and black on the other. The reading was .02 of one volt. Today I read your message confirming that in fact the pink with green stripe wire was the power wire and also remember someone saying that the ECM provides the ground. So I thought I should try the test again but this time ground to the engine so I could see if it was the ECM not providing a ground for the injector. As soon as I did that I had full power. So I am not getting any ground at the injector. So power at the coil and power at the injector just no ground at the injector. Tests were conducted with the key on and only had power while the fuel pump was running.

 

[Larson 206]

Also when I was on the water I activated anti flood as a last resort. As you probably know, you push the button on the lever and push the throttle completely open. This shuts off the injectors. Not sure this could be the problem, but I thought I should mention it as you said you have never seen all the drivers go at once. Not sure how it resets. The ECM has been unplugged a couple times so you would think it would reset then.

 

[dypcdiver]

Your last post might just hold the clue as to why all 8 injectors stopped working. I think you need to check the function of the "anti flood" sounds to me that it may not have reset.

 

[muc]

Your last post might just hold the clue as to why all 8 injectors stopped working. I think you need to check the function of the "anti flood" sounds to me that it may not have reset.

That's an interesting thought. My guess is that it would be possible for the TPS (throttle position sensor) to stick at 100% and cause the ECM to go into clear flood mode. This is something that might be able to be checked by unplugging the TPS and cranking the engine with a noid light (this is the name of the light that your tech hooked up when he tested your engine) installed and seeing if it flashes. This is because most --- but not all --- ECM's will insert a default value when they detect a fault with a sensor. The way the ECM sets a fault on a sensor like the TPS is that it is looking for a voltage reading from the TPS between .2 and 4.8 volts. If it senses a reading outside of that range it will reject that reading as impossible, set a fault code and insert an in range value so the engine will run well enough to get you home. I'm 95% certain that your ECM will do this for a TPS fault. You will need a noid light to test this theory (a voltmeter won't work because the ECM give the injector a ground for milliseconds at a time to fire it and a voltmeter won't react fast enough to read that short of a electrical connection) you can probably buy a noid light pretty cheap at an auto parts store,
But all this brings up the fact that you really need this engine scanned before you buy a ECM. I know you are unhappy with the tech that came out to your boat previously. What I don't know is how many Volvo Penta dealers you have near you. I understand they can be few and far between in some parts of the US and Canada. You may have to bring the boat to them (a lot of dealers only put their best tech on the road for very good customers --- my dealer was like that). Ideally what you are looking for is a tech who has either diacom or vodia scan tool and has been to Volvo Penta EGC training recently.

 

[alldodge]

Does VP use a clean power feed ?

 

[muc]

Does VP use a clean power feed ?

Yes on some engines. I'm pretty sure not on this on. Would need to look service or owners manual, the engine or wiring diagram to be sure.

 

[Larson 206]

Ok thanks guys. I will see if I can get him back out or take it too him. He's an independent guy that makes house calls. I know another mechanic that doesn't label himself as a VP or Merc mechanic but rather a master technician. We also have a boat dealer who appears to have all merc in his show room but yet a sign that says VP dealer. The service writer/ owner didn't leave me with a lot of confidence but maybe his tech knows more. He's pretty booked up though. I will see what I can do. Thanks again for all your help.

 

[muc]

Have you tried the Volvo Penta dealer locator?
My last sentence in post #49 pretty much sums up my feelings, especially when you might be looking at a non returnable ECM

 

[Larson 206]

No I haven't yet. The start of this week has been crazy. Tried calling the other guy just to scan it at least. I would just like to see if the iac, tps or camshaft sensor are sending any codes. He hasn't returned any calls.

 

[Larson 206]

No update. Looking for a new mechanic as the other one won't even return my call. Maybe it's beyond his abilities.

 

[89retta]

Any updates yet?

 

[Larson 206]

So I haven't been able to get anyone to read the codes for me. The shops are booked solid winterizing boats. So the question is how do I winterize my boat if I can't start it? I've pulled the plugs and hoses but not sure if that's enough. I went to turn the engine over to make sure the water was out of pump but it appears the starter has now quit. Probably from when I took on some water. So far owning a boat is not a great experience.

 

[89retta]

What part of Canada are you at?

 

[Larson 206]

Red Deer Alberta

 

[89retta]

Your an hour and half south of me. I got friend who is a marine mechanic at Martin motorsports. Will see if he wants to make a house call for you if you want.