2006 5.0 GXI cranks but won't start

bruceb58

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Mar 5, 2006
Messages
30,454
Muc I checked the voltage at the injector. It has .02 volts when I turn the key to the on position. I did not try turning it over.
It should have voltage while the fuel pump is running. With just the key on, it may not have voltage.
 

Larson 206

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Aug 24, 2016
Messages
31
No voltage worth speaking of. Cleaned the ground wires and I get .02 -.12 of a volt at the injector and that's while the engine is trying to start.
 

bruceb58

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Mar 5, 2006
Messages
30,454
How are you measuring this? Pulling the connector off and probing it?
 

bajaunderground

Lieutenant
Joined
Apr 18, 2008
Messages
1,401
Bajaunderground thanks for your comment. The pump dose have a bit of a wine. It's loud enough that you can hear it over the engine running when the engine compartment is closed. The pump looks like it was replaced or at least off, judging by the paint on the bolts. The name on the cell is Carter. Not sure if that is a factory pump. When I changed the fuel filter I looked at the underside where it screws on and there was no black paint. I also pulled the fuel regulator and the screen had some black junk in it so I cleaned it all out. I also order the e clip from Volvo to perform the service bulletin. From what I've read a plugged screen on the regulator can cause high pressure on the fuel rail, 90-100psi. When I checked mine it was 65 psi on the high. Once I cleaned it went down to 60 psi.

With regards to flow, after the pressure check was done I pressed the release button on the gauge and let a half a litre or so to run through to flush the line and to make sure no vapour lock. The odd part was that the fuel was very yellow compared to the fuel I dumped out of the fuel filter when I changed it.

The hard start on my boat was only after it had been run for awhile and it was very intermittent. Cold starts were great. From what I've read, if I go to WOT to try to start it, the fuel injectors will be shut off by the ECM.

Carter is the manufacturer of factory pump, so it could be replaced or original?

My advice is redneck compared to muc or bruceb...so take what you would like?

I would pull the line out of the fuel cell (high pressure) and put in a gallon milk jug and turn key and make sure you're getting flow...if it's discolored, then I'd start replacing fuel lines as that an indicator that any ethanol in your fuel has compromised the inner lining!!. ​I'm still guessing you have some blockage in your pump or an occluded fuel line?

Not knowing the hours is a big deal from a 'likely' culprit standpoint...200 hours, I'd say unlikely the ECM is bad (however, possible? as corrosion/harsh enviroment can happen at any time, which is why I asked about salt vs fresh).

Follow bruce's advice on diagnosis of the injectors (bruce you've sounded annoyed on few posts, including this one...maybe you need a vacation or more/less beer? :smug:)

What you need to do it take it to boat mechanic with a VP scan tool and look at the any/all error codes...it'll save you hours and dollars of chasing your tail?!

Good Luck!
 

bruceb58

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Mar 5, 2006
Messages
30,454
Yes Bruceb58. Pulling off the connector and probing it. Is that the right way?
That's good but what I would also do is probe each terminal to ground to make sure that power is coming over from the fuel pump relay. You need to determine if its the ECM that is not providing the ground or the fuel pump relay is not providing the power. My guess is the ECM is not providing the ground.
 

four winns 214

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Oct 25, 2008
Messages
757
I've just skimmed this thread, but when my V-P GXiB suffered a frustrating no start episode, it was finally traced to cracked rotor. I had just had it replaced. The part was either cracked coming new out of the box or the tech cracked it during install. Worth a look. Replacing instantly solved the problem and zero problems in the four years since.
 

muc

"Retired" Association of Marine Technicians...
Joined
Jul 7, 2004
Messages
2,064
Well I'm guessing this is fixed by now --- "A mechanic is coming over tonight to do the code reading" --- but on the chance he didn't have access to a wiring diagram.
I'm making my best guess here because the O.P. didn't post a serial number (pet peeve of mine because it takes me 3 times as long to pull up the needed info) and without a serial number I'm never sure. Even with a serial number I'm only 95% sure --- manufacturers are human to, so mistakes can happen.

The fuel injectors get their power at key on from the same place/wire the ignition coil and ignition control module do. O.P. states that engine will run when he dumps gas down the throttle body, so that should mean he has spark, so that should mean he has power at the coil. He states that he doesn't have power at the injectors, so there should be a break in that green wire somewhere.
 

Larson 206

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Aug 24, 2016
Messages
31
Ok so the mechanic came to look at the boat. He is VP mechanic. He had a special light that he plugged into the injector harness and he confirmed there is no power to the injectors. He thinks it's the ECM. So I ask him about doing a code read and he said it won't tell him if the ECM is the problem. He also said the engine has to be running for him to check for codes. That makes no sense to me. I have a code reader for vehicles and you never check it with vehicle running. Can anyone tell me if this information is correct? Also can the ECM be sent away to be tested? It's an expensive part and I don't feel like replacing it before it's confirmed it is the problem. Could it possibly be the camshaft sensor? Is it worth it to give it a shot?
 

muc

"Retired" Association of Marine Technicians...
Joined
Jul 7, 2004
Messages
2,064
Still no S/N so I?ll make one last guess.
Power goes from the battery to the starter to fuse 4 to relay 5 to injectors and coil
You have power at the coil but not at the injectors. The ECM might still be bad because it grounds the injectors. But you must first repair the no power to injectors.
You don?t need the engine running to pull codes.
You do need the engine running to scan it
Some ECM?s can be tested --- but that?s what a good mechanic is for.
Do you need a new cam sensor? I don?t know, it?s too early to tell.
This is all based off of wiring diagram Volvo P/N 7745609

I won't bad mouth your mechanic because I'm Not there to hear what your telling him. But it ain't looking good.
 

Larson 206

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Aug 24, 2016
Messages
31
I'm not sure why my last post didn't show up so I will try again. The problem is not fixed. The mechanic didn't show last night but came this morning.

He plugged in a special light into the injector harness and confirmed there is no power at the injector. He thinks the ECM is the problem. I asked about doing the code code read and he said it's pointless because the engine has to be running to get a code. This makes me sense to me as I have a code reader for automobiles and you never read codes with the vehicle running. Can anyone confirm this is right? He also said the code reader will not tell him if it is the ECM. Does anyone think it's worth a shot to replace the cam sensor? I really don't feel like replacing the ECM unless it's confirmed that it's actually the problem. What frustrates me is that he didn't even bring the code reader when that's what he was coming to do. All he did was confirm everything I've posted so far.
 

Larson 206

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Aug 24, 2016
Messages
31
There is also another number 3869309. Having problems uploading pictures of the cover and ECM.
 

Larson 206

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Aug 24, 2016
Messages
31
Muc .... The only green wire I see in the coil region is the one coming from the camshaft sensor (green with red stripe) in the distributor. This wire goes back to the ECM. I have ohmed these out and they are all good.
 

bruceb58

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Mar 5, 2006
Messages
30,454
I asked about doing the code code read and he said it's pointless because the engine has to be running to get a code. This makes me sense to me as I have a code reader for automobiles and you never read codes with the vehicle running
You can read codes for autos as well as boats when the engines are running or not as long as the ignition is turned on and the ECM is then powered up.
 

Larson 206

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Aug 24, 2016
Messages
31
Thanks for everyone who has tried to help me. Your efforts are greatly appreciated!!!

Can anyone tell me how much an ECM is worth if I end up having to replace it? Is there a place that will refurbish it? If so where? I seen in an old post the there was a place in Toronto but the individual didn't give a name. Preferably a place in Canada as that is where I am from.
 

muc

"Retired" Association of Marine Technicians...
Joined
Jul 7, 2004
Messages
2,064
Thanks for the S/N it allowed me to be sure that 7745609 is the right wiring diagram and that it was wrong when published, is has since been amended by service bulletin group 04-2 number70 version1

The wire you are looking for is the pink with dark green tracer. All 8 injectors will have this wire going to them. All of the second wire?s at each injector will be different, tan with green, tan with brown, green with blue, green with yellow, ect.
This pink with dark green will also go to the ignition coil and ignition control module.
This wire is the key on power for the injectors and ignition. Until you fix that you can throw all the parts at this engine that you want and it still won?t run.
I?m pretty biased about aftermarket ECM companies like the one AllDodge posts. This is because I?m the guy who gets to fix the boat when something they do causes problems. My last repair like this was a customer who had his ECM modified and now the boat has intermittent warning horn and goes into power reduction. He brings the boat to my marina and is now willing to pay the $150.00 an hour for me to troubleshoot it. It took me an hour and a half to determine the ECM is causing it. Trouble is the company who modified the ECM say?s what they did couldn?t possibly cause this symptom and refuses to do anything about it. So the customer is back and isn?t happy. He now pays for another 4 hours of my time to rerun all the tests and document them, included in this time is me waiting on hold to talk to the modifier and explain how I?m sure the ECM is at fault. They agree that ECM is bad but stand by their story they didn?t cause it and try to blame me. I tell I never saw the boat until it had the problem, so they blame the customer. Long story short is the customer buys a $1500.00 ECM from me and the boat now runs like it should. This is one of many horror stories about aftermarket parts and suppliers. I look at them a lot like salvage yard parts ---- sometimes you can get a great deal and sometimes you can get royally screwed, most of the time its somewhere in between.
I will tell you anytime you hear a mechanic say ?I think it?s the ECM? runaway FAST. Those words should never come out of a mechanics mouth.
If you want to order an ECM from Volvo its part number 3818619 Module ECM $1, 564.00 US
Also 3863130 Sensor camshaft position $238.35
Are these parts bad? At this point nobody can know BECAUSE YOU DON?T HAVE POWER TO THE INJECTOR?S
You can fix the harness or replace it. 3888188 Cable Harness $1,139.83

P.S. according to Volvo Penta your engine serial number has never been registered. So I have no idea if there are any open recalls or updates to this engine. I suggest you call them and get it registered.
 
Top