Ted Williams 7.5hp air cooled

[loose rivet]

I was given two motors yesterday, one runs but has a bunch of missing bolts and screws on the power head, the other runs but dies in the water. It'll start and run fine out the water, but locks up in the water. It had me puzzled at first, it ran fine, on 24:1 chainsaw mix, I hung it in a barrel and it tried to start it and it seized up. When I pulled the plug I got water?
I pump out the water, and it starts and runs fine out of the water, if I hang it in a barrel, it fills the cylinder with water and locks up. This is an air cooled motor, how or where can water be getting up into the motor?
Not so much that I care to fix it, it's most likely going to be a donor motor to the other one, but how would water get up the exhaust into the cylinder on one of these? The motor is only in the water about a foot, it takes less than half a pull on the rope to lock up the motor, if I pull the plug with the motor in the water it slobbers water out the plug hole when pulling the rope. Its in rough shape, it appears to have seen salt water use but it runs fine out of the water. I realize these have a water pump, but I don't see how it can pump water up into the power head? I tried to get the power head off but the bolts are rusted in place. The only way its coming apart is by force or by drilling out all the bolts.
The model number is a 217/58592-0, I had no luck finding any info on it at Sears, it wouldn't take the number but its stamped plain as day on the tag.
This one is new enough to have solid state ignition, a built in tank, and plastic transom brackets.

The other motor I got with it is older, its all aluminum with only a remote tank option. It runs but the screws that hold the shroud on are broken off and need to be drilled out or worked loose. It runs but the tin rubs the flywheel. That one has points.
They came with some spare parts, and several spare impellers and props, along with a 14' Sears boat.

 

[MahtyMaht]

Re: Ted Williams 7.5hp air cooled

You can see an exploded view of that motor at

http://www.searspartsdirect.com/partsdirect/index.action

It's only the top end that's air cooled - the bottom end needs water, and there is usually a pump on top of the lower unit with a water tube running up the leg. It sounds like the powerhead's been removed and mis-assembled. I bet the powerhead's gotta come off. If you want to make that thang sing again, there's really no better resource for help with these motors than these guys;

eskaoutboards : Eska Outboards Group

Join the group, and go for the 'Files' section - Lots of good info on that puppy

PS - DO NOT run the motor out of water, DO NOT buy parts from SearsParts

 

[loose rivet]

Re: Ted Williams 7.5hp air cooled

I signed up to the Eska forum at Yahoo but don't see any old posts?
I do have the original owners manual and parts list for this thing but it don't show much.
I was hoping someone had some past experience with one of these.
It don't look like its ever been apart, at least not in the recent past.
I do know the last owner ran both of these out of the water a lot, so chances are the pumps are shot.
The motor that takes on water will do it before the engine starts, if in water, the cylinder fills with water almost as soon as you pull the rope. If I pull the plug, its as if each pull is pumping water out the plug hole. It will not start in the water, if you start it out of the water and dunk it, it shuts down instantly and won't run again until you remove it from the water, remove the plug, and pump out all the water.

Its almost as if each compression stroke sucks up a gulp of water. It can't be the water pump since it'll do it by just one or two pulls of the rope, which is all you get before it locks up.

The second motor seems fine, but I will give it a new water pump before hanging it on my boat.

 

[MahtyMaht]

Re: Ted Williams 7.5hp air cooled

Running it out of the water is a shortcut to a barbequed lower crank seal. Once the seal is fried, I don't know why the water below it wouldn't get sucked right into the lower crank case, and then get pumped into the top end thru the intake ports when the piston comes down.

I know you have to sign into the Eska group thru yahoo mail every time you want in there, and if you don't it looks the same, except the 'messages' link doesn't appear, so you can't post or see existing posts. You got a weird one here, and I'm not the best diagnostician, but those guys are.

 

[loose rivet]

Re: Ted Williams 7.5hp air cooled

I did sign into Yahoo, but that forum seems to function solely as an email only forum?
I see no 'messages' section in the list.

I when I changed my preferences to accept emails, my mail box got bombarded with everyone else's posts and messages and I still couldn't see any posts that weren't in my email box. None of the other Yahoo groups I belong to are like that.


I figured I'll have to pull the power head off this thing but can't find a socket to fit the 6 bolts? I thought at first it was just some sort of reverse 12pt fastener but nothing fits the bolt heads. Its sort of like a reverse triple square but with finer splines. Roughly 1/4" in diameter. The other motor has standard 3/8" bolt heads.

 

[F_R]

Re: Ted Williams 7.5hp air cooled

So, it will run out of the water? Very interesting. I can't imagine any situation that would cause what you are describing. The powerhead itself must not have any serious holes or anything, or it wouldn't run. I'd say the water has to be being pumped through the exhaust ports. But how does it get there that quickly? That would be one hellova good water pump. I dunno. Be sure to let us know what you find. Inquiring minds would like to know.

Those bolts---are the teeth on the outside of the head like an ordinary bolt, or on the inside, like an Allen screw? If external, they take a standard 12 point socket. If internal, they are called Torx screws and take a Torx screwdriver or bit.

 

[MahtyMaht]

Re: Ted Williams 7.5hp air cooled

They are twelve pointers with crossed slots.

 

[pellasaws]

Re: Ted Williams 7.5hp air cooled

eskaman2008 at sanfords goodies on ebay has all the eska sears clinton parts you will need to get your old motors running,he also carries many omc parts cheapest around

 

[loose rivet]

Re: Ted Williams 7.5hp air cooled

I finally got back to this motor.
First off, how does the lower unit separate? I got the reverse torx bolts off below the power head, there were 6 of them, but the power head only comes up about 1/8" or so and stops. The shaft won't budge. I finally gave up and removed the skeg and popped off the clip and slid the lower and pan off that way. How or where is the shaft supposed to separate?
I see a water tube from the water pump, but I'm not sure how or what drives the pump? The shaft is just round, no flats or clips?
Once I removed the circlip from the pinion gear below, the shaft slid right out of the gear and up through the water pump.
The power head isn't that bad but the lower bearing is rough. I can't see how water can get from the pump up into the exhaust port but the rings are rusty and there's rusty sludge built up all through the exhaust passages. Sort of like rust colored mud. The cylinder looks fine, but stained from water, no ridge and no scoring. I was surprised to see these are roller bearing motors, I was expecting just bushings.

I can get the bearings locally, a local bearing supply says its a common number. Not sure about the seal but I doubt it'll be an issue.

I also want to reseal the lower unit, how do you get the prop shaft out to remove the forward gear?

I tried looking up these at Sears but I don't have a part number, neither motor has a model number anywhere I can see.
At this point I've got the power head torn apart down to the crank and driveshaft, and the lower unit still has its gears in it, the leg and pan are attached as I can't figure out how to remove the neutral/fwd shaft to separate the pan.

 

[MahtyMaht]

Re: Ted Williams 7.5hp air cooled

Water is pumped up to flow around the lower face of the crank case. The lower crank seal is supposed to keep water out of the lower bearing, and keep bottom end pressure inside the bottom end. What is preventing the power head from separating is likely the shift linkage. There's a little two bolt oval plate on the port side of the leg maybe halfway down. Pull that sucker, and you'll see the bolt that comes out to separate the top half from the bottom half of the linkage. Put the shifter in neutral before you separate it. If you want to reseal the motor, you'll have to take the drive shaft and prop shaft out. The driveshaft has a needle roller below the water pump, be damned sure you don't lose needles, I don't know how gettable the needle roller is. The propshat has forward and reverse gears on it, and there's a hard to see snap ring in the recessed face of one of them. The seals are not hard to get from

Results for Eska - Sears / Ted Wms

or call these guys with model number and part numbers in hand;

VinParts

They are OEM parts people, and aftermarket gaskets can bite you in the duff.

 

[loose rivet]

Re: Ted Williams 7.5hp air cooled

The bolts that hold the power head to the pan were 1/4" 12 pt, the bolts holding the plate to the block itself are 5.5 reverse Torx. I had to buy a set from Mr Snap On today.
There is no plate or access on the side of the leg, there is a shaft that goes through the pan and top edge of the leg with a half round casting on the inside. I see no pins or set screws in any of the parts?
There is no shift linkage, the lower unit is full time forward on this, no gear box. Just some type of spring clutch up top.
This is an air cooled single cylinder motor. I was able to manuever the leg around enough to separate it from the shift shaft and I still don't see how that comes off. The lower unit has only a pinion and forward gear. I had to open the lower unit to get at the c clip to release the driveshaft. How on earth did they figure this was suppose to come apart?
It looks to me like there's a rusted out allen head set screw at the top of the clutch? If that's the only place to separated the power head from the driveshaft then you have to do it the way I did to get the power head off the pan and leg.
I found several parts break downs for various 7.5hp air cooled models, but they match the older model I've got not this one with the integral fuel tank.
Right now I've got the bare power head with a driveshaft attached on the bench, the rest is completely apart. The lower bearing in the motor is toast, there's about 1/2" of play in the bottom crank bearing. With the top of the block off I can turn the motor, the crank was off center enough to wedge the rod bolt against the block preventing it from turning. The cylinder is fine. If I can get the drive shaft off the crank it may be a matter of just fixing the lower bearing and do a quick rebuild while I'm here. The cylinder has no ridge, just some water staining.

I also can't get the water pump apart, I took out the two screws but the housing won't budge. I left it soak in a can of PB Blaster to see if anything loosens up. It don't use the long skinny impeller that I see listed online, the impeller is small, more like the impeller on a small Mercury. I was basically just parting this one out to convert the older one to an integral fuel tank, but its looking like it may be salvageable if the parts aren't too expensive. If the parts are too high, it'll be cheaper to just find another running motor. I see several on CL for $100-$150 running right now.
This one has breakerless ignition, maybe I should retro fit the older motor with this ignition?

Any clue as to where this may have any numbers on it? Neither of these I have here have any model numbers or tags.
The only tag on them is the 50:1 fuel mix decal on the bracket and the fwd/neutral decal on the shift handle.
By process of elimination I come up with model number 217.585920 as the closest match to this motor.
It shows the driveshaft as being separate from the clutch up top but it won't budge. I've heated it, tapped on it, and even used a clamp on shaft puller but it don't move even the slightest. It don't look rusty, it just don't move. There is rust on the iron collar atop the clutch that is set screwed to the crank. The shaft is chromed steel, the rest of the parts are all stainless steel by the look of them. nearly all the lower hardware is stainless as well with the exception of the double flat headed screws on the Tecumseh power head.

 

[loose rivet]

Re: Ted Williams 7.5hp air cooled

I should also note, if helps ID this thing, the bolts in the bottom of the power head are metric threaded, all the bolts that are reverse torx or either 8mm x 1.25 or 6mm x 1.00 threaded. The cylinder head and all side covers are standard 1/4x20 or 5/16"x18 threaded screws. The lower unit skeg is held on with four 1/4"x20 flat head screws.

I'm getting the impression that not much on this model other than maybe the onboard fuel tank and prop will interchange and be useable on my Ted Williams 7.5hp motor.
The transom bracket, lower unit, and hardware are all standard on the earlier Ted Williams model. How late did they make or sell the Eska built air cooled motors?

I went ahead and drilled out the rusted and stripped set screw that holds the clutch to the crank but noting will move. The set screw is out, but no amount of heat or prying seems to help. Although none of the parts pics I've seen show it, it seems as if there's a C clip on the end of the driveshaft accessible only with the clutch off the crank??? I can feel movement in the shaft and clutch joint but it won't come apart. The parts list I see only shows an o ring?

In other words, should I be able to replace a water pump on one of these without opening the lower unit gear case?

I was hoping to be able to reseal this lower unit and have it as a spare for the other motor but I now have my doubts as to if its the same and interchangeable.
The older motor has a chip in the anticav plate and the newer one is perfect but I somehow doubt their the same now.
I tried to remove just the two lower bolts on the older motor to drop the gear housing but it won't budge, its holding on up top the same way. If the impeller should have a key holding it in place, then the lower unit must be able to slide down? I certainly can't see any way to access that set screw to remove the clutch along with the lower unit?