Firestone 3.6 more info needed in regard to ignition

[ronboonville]

Seems like there are a few firestone fans according to my last post about repainting. 1946, 3.6, rope start. no spark. I cleaned and reset the points with no results. Today I really cleaned the points and really set them at .20. condenser checks ok, coil has resistance, plug wire has continuity. but coil has had some damage to it, see pic, maybe from mouse. can't see any windings but the bakelite insulator is in pieces. I am going to coat the damage with liquid electrical tape. I'm a little nervous about removing the coil. Does the stiff wire on the coil just push or twist into the plug wire? If so I will remove the coil and see if I can repair the insullator plate. My main concern is breaking that stiff wire on the coil. It is a eisemann mag and am not sure if it can be replaced. Past experience with my gale and coils was to replace them even when they looked good and had resistance. When I put it back together I will use a drill to spin it. I can't get the wife to hold the wire because of previous testing on another motor.

 

[1946Zephyr]

Re: Firestone 3.6 more info needed in regard to ignition

well, if the coil works, you might be fine to use it. However, you may be able to use an OMC winding assembly to retro-fit and make it work good again. If the center laminate, is 7/16" then it'll work all the better.

 

[F_R]

Re: Firestone 3.6 more info needed in regard to ignition

I'd expect there would be danger of that damaged area arcing out to the flywheel. So, did you check for spark yet after a good points cleaning? Or is your wife not cooperating yet? Seriously, it might work if you can insulate it well enough.

I'm fairly sure the laminations are much thicker than OMC. If a 5/8" Wico coil will fit, it would make a good replacement. That is if you get one of the orange shellaced ones. They are bullet proof. But not roach proof. Haven't tried it with mice yet.

What stiff wire are you so concerned about? The spark plug wire? Shoot, that's no big deal. It's just stiff from the solder tinning, pretty bendable.

 

[twocyclemania]

Re: Firestone 3.6 more info needed in regard to ignition

You didn't mention if you got any spark after all the work. If you did I'd patch the coil. If not I'd go with Zephyr's recommendation. I've done a few transplants using OMC coils and they work fine. I can't tell from the picture if you have the 7/16 or 5/8 field. If you have the larger one it will not allow the OMC coil to slide on. If you have the 7/16 one your good to go. If you do have the 5/8 field you can replace it with a 7/16 field and add the OMC coil. I have found a few instances where the field won't fit in and hit the flywheel. I can't remember on what motor however. Anyway, I've done the transplant on my 61 3.6 Scotty and it has great ignition. By the way, I'm currently applying epoxy to the Bendix coil for my Chris Craft in the hopes I'll have spark. Good luck

 

[ronboonville]

Re: Firestone 3.6 more info needed in regard to ignition

I just ran outside, only 17 degrees here, and checked. laminates measure 5/8 on the firestone. 3/8 on the omc coil that I have. So when it warms up in the morn I will continue. My theory is clean points and coil sealed up now that I will be successful.

 

[twocyclemania]

Re: Firestone 3.6 more info needed in regard to ignition

With the 5/8 laminate you cannot slide the OMC coil on. I'd go with your instinct: Clean the points and seal up the coil. Those coils were pretty tough and I've found them working in many an old motor even when the old OMC coils had failed. Of course the OMC coils are cheap and readily available so why mess with them? If it fails you'll have to locate a 7/16 (I'm pretty sure it's 7/16 and not 3/8 - a close measurement) laminate. I don't know why nobody has ever suggested grinding down the 5/8 laminate to accommodate the OMC replacement. I don't have the machine skills or equipment to do it but I would think it would work???

 

[F_R]

Re: Firestone 3.6 more info needed in regard to ignition

Oh, they indeed have been milled down by some people. Does it work as well as the proper parts? I suppose it depends. You have to consider the magnetic flux that has to cut through the windings. A question for the engineers. One thing about it, once you cut them down, they are that way forever, and some of that old stuff is virtually irreplaceable. Yes, the OMC Universal Magneto coils are 7/16". But I believe the earlier center magnet ones were 3/8". So nobody is wrong here.

 

[ronboonville]

Re: Firestone 3.6 more info needed in regard to ignition

I do have good spark now! So I shot some gas down the gas line to fill carb and some into the carb. put my electric drill on it and it started. only ran a few seconds but thats okay. gas sprayed out of the gasket between the manifold and block when I sprayed gas in so next thing is to make a new gasket.

 

[twocyclemania]

Re: Firestone 3.6 more info needed in regard to ignition

What did you do to resolve the spark issue? Always like to know how things were resolved for future reference. That's why we're here. Are you sure that's where the gas is coming from? The reed valve/ intake gasket (I think that's what you're referring to) leaking would be rare and the last thing I would suspect. Never had one leak. But there's always a first. Should be easy to make one up. Let us know how you make out.

 

[ronboonville]

Re: Firestone 3.6 more info needed in regard to ignition

I think the spark issue was fixed by sealing up the damage on the coil with liquid electrical tape, comes in a can with brush, kinda like plastic dip. Also the wire from coil to condenser had a bare section that laid real close to the condenser. may have had spark jumping there. coated it too with same stuff. Also I beleive advice I got here was to really clean points helped.
As far as the leak goes I will double check it again. I use a pump type oil can with fuel in it to shoot gas in carbs, gives a good stream not a mist and has a long nozzle. It's an old john deere item from the 60's, have seen them on ebay for like $75. guess it's a collectors item. but it works great for my use on outboards and motorcycles.
It's real cold here and my test barrel is froze. thinking maybe adding anti-freeze to it or some kinda heater, maybe wrap with heat tape, or install a block heater any ideas that work would be great!

 

[F_R]

Re: Firestone 3.6 more info needed in regard to ignition

Load the test tank on a truck, sell your house and move to Florida. They never freeze down here.

 

[mrcrabs]

Re: Firestone 3.6 more info needed in regard to ignition

I think the spark issue was fixed by sealing up the damage on the coil with liquid electrical tape

I was reading down the thread and was hot to tell you about that stuff, its neoprene, I use it as a top coat over e6000 on the eska repairs. Great stuff.

you may need to change the plug wire out with a new one to get consistant sparky....be sure you check back here before you do that....if you try to solder a new wire to that coil you will kill it, thats not how its done....you tin the wire then attach it to the coils loop....very tender area....I have done it ....learned it from the shopdog 1937 Maytag Engine model 72 repair #38 - YouTube whatch his whole series on the maytag engine....perty cool and what will work for maytag will work for scott atwater

 

[ronboonville]

Re: Firestone 3.6 more info needed in regard to ignition

Good spark now,will try to run again when gas tank heals up. Thought I had leaks fixed till I dropped a chain inside to knock more rust out. patching with magnum gas tank repair. will use that red seal stuff also. Thanks for the info on plug wire will watch video.

 

[mrcrabs]

Re: Firestone 3.6 more info needed in regard to ignition

Hey I just got done with the 58 scott 3.6 tank, chain was no good for me, I tried it, I started off with electrolysis but had a hard time making the curve but I did get a couple days of it done, I used beer can 6 pack plastic cut in strips threaded like a worm on tie wire for a anoid, it ate it up quick ....
then I used red cider vinigar soaked 2 days then I used a goodly amount of ring shank flat top old fashion drywall nails with the sharp edged tops and lime away....shakey shaky all day long, (you would not believe what came off with the lime away and shaky) then flushed with baking soda to kill the acid from the vinigar & lime away .....then hot water and dish soap wash out follwed by rinsing and then a boiling hot water rinse twice and let to dry/evaporate completely....followed that by two acetone rinses/ almost completely dry then the red coat, 12 hours later a 2nd red coat....used cork stopers for all holes be careful rinsing with the acetone....vent the cork with a small hole some way...I had a pressure buildup on the first rinse I suspect was from reaction with something in the tank....mine was badly rusted....the red coat is looking great...but as a safty warning since I spouted all this off....ventilation, ventilation, ventilation. be sure you have it and wear a mask if yeah got it....I woke up the next day and still feel like I have a chest cold...hack hack....bad stuff bro :facepalm:

and it pays to have a heated area and never put a hair dryer to it or you may find your feet in the clouds...safty first!!!

Be safe not sorry, good luck
mrcrabs

 

[mrcrabs]

Re: Firestone 3.6 more info needed in regard to ignition

PS...don't let the red coat puddle....you will drain it through the petcock hole but just about the time you think your good another blob will try and roll out...so I had to stay with that stinking stuff spinning the tank up and down back and forth much longer than I wanted to or felt safe with it.....:grumpy:

 

[mrcrabs]

Re: Firestone 3.6 more info needed in regard to ignition

Frank is there a place I could rent near you, LOL...it was 12 degrees here this AM but the ice is dripping now....come on spring!!!