Looking for an exploded parts view - Sears/ McCulloch electric start 9HP

[jim j geezer]

model: 225.581998 }
serial: OE128531 } Model # & serial# are an educated comparative guesstimate since the outboard shows NO evidence of a model#, but DOES prominently sport a serial# of: 08680

Vintage '67, '68, I think.

NATURALLY searspartsdirect dissavows any knowledge....

The head paint appears discolored and flaking a bit, so I won't be surprised to learn that installing new impellers is in my future. Still, before I go all nutso buying parts & manuals, I wanna know that it RUNS!. Pulled the starter/alternator, rewind & flywheel to access the ignition stuff - which bench tests good. Pulled the carb to clean it and check the reeds and fuel pump - which also look good. Got it back together after spending a couple of hours fabricating a flywheel key (which had been missing). I'm now stumped on two or three points:

1. The top of the crankshaft is threaded, yet there was no bolt........ to hold the flywheel down?
2. The top of the starter/alternator armature is threaded but there was no bolt.... to hold it down atop the flywheel?
3. If I tighten the three bolts that secure the rewind, it's all but impossible to crank the engine. If I loosen 'em a bit, I can crank it.

I'm prepared to spend an inordinate amount of time & effort to get this thing running properly, but I'm on a sharply-limited fixed income, so I can't just throw $$$ at it. Accordingly, I'm open to suggestions.
Thanks.
jim j geezer

 

[F_R]

Re: Looking for an exploded parts view - Sears/ McCulloch electric start 9HP

A bolt goes clear through the armature, into the crankshaft, securing both the armature and flywheel.

The threads in the armature are a puller. Drop a 1/4" diameter X 1 3/4" long steel rod in the hole, and screw a bolt down against it, which will lift the armature up.

Torque when installing is 225 inch pounds if bolt has 3 raised marks on head (grade-5), or 300 inch pounds if bolt has 6 raised marks on head (grade-8).

 

[jim j geezer]

Re: Looking for an exploded parts view - Sears/ McCulloch electric start 9HP

Update: The binding recoil was my fault. When I fabricated the flywheel key, I left it a tad too long. Got the right key today and all is well, bindwise. BTW, it uses a notched key ~ 1" X 1/8" X 3/16". The notch fits down behind the cam lobe.

No fire on the top cylinder. Odd. Static checks of both coils produce almost identical results. Ditto, points & condensers. Still, after a half-dozen take it apart/put it together episodes........ no spark on the top cylinder. Fortunately, I have a 7.5 I can use as a parts source - which'll happen tomorrow.

The master flywheel bolt was missing, so today I bought a 2" X 5/16" - 18 grade 8 bolt & washer to serve the purpose.

Anybody know what (Champion) plugs this outboard uses? I read somewhere on this forum that AC45T's are the ticket. Alas! My auto parts store says that info "does not compute". Currently have Champion CJ8 - which looks like they belong in a weed-whacker. :facepalm:

 

[F_R]

Re: Looking for an exploded parts view - Sears/ McCulloch electric start 9HP

Believe it or not, the period-correct Champion book shows a CJ8 at .035" gap. Well, McCulloch WAS a chainsaw company, y'know.

 

[jim j geezer]

Re: Looking for an exploded parts view - Sears/ McCulloch electric start 9HP

Well, this's a kick in the pants. Trying to get me electric start 9HP McCulloch running and ran into "no spark to top plug". Static checked both coils against each other an came up with nearly identical readings. Attemped to replace the plug wire on the suspect coil. *FAIL*.

Aside: The McCulloch coils on 7.5 & 9.0 have ordinary wood screws screwed into the end of the plug wire at the coil.

With a 7.5 Mac with a carb problem, I decided to sacrifice it as a parts engine. Swapped out the entire stator plate. STILL no spark to the top plug! This's grist for an epic vocabulary lesson!

Aside: The coils are attached to the stator plates with rivets. Swapping out coils is no picnic.

Fuming & embracing ice cold beer until tomorrow...

 

[MahtyMaht]

Re: Looking for an exploded parts view - Sears/ McCulloch electric start 9HP

Sears appears to know quite a bit about that model number;

http://www.searspartsdirect.com/par...47/1305320?pathTaken=&prst=0&shdMod=225581998

 

[F_R]

Re: Looking for an exploded parts view - Sears/ McCulloch electric start 9HP

I'd be thinking about the kill circuit / wires

 

[F_R]

Re: Looking for an exploded parts view - Sears/ McCulloch electric start 9HP

Sears appears to know quite a bit about that model number;

http://www.searspartsdirect.com/par...47/1305320?pathTaken=&prst=0&shdMod=225581998

Holy cow!!!! Is that the motor we are talking about? That isn't even a McCulloch, it is a 1996 built by Force. Nothing at all like what I thought we were discussing.

 

[jim j geezer]

Re: Looking for an exploded parts view - Sears/ McCulloch electric start 9HP

I goofed! My gaze shifted down the page when I typed that model & serial.

This's definitely a McCulloch!

I knew McCulloch was ahead of its time, but I just got my brain bent when I did an image search and found this:
http://vintageboatparts.com/parts/z_store/electric9/

 

[Willyclay]

Re: Looking for an exploded parts view - Sears/ McCulloch electric start 9HP

Us geezers have to stick together when trying to keep these great old motors running. You have F_R interested so you are in good hands. There might be some useful service info at the link below. Good luck!

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=393281

LOGIN as directed then drill down to: Small Engines, Marine/Boat Motors, McCulloch and finally either 7-1/2 or 9HP.

 

[jim j geezer]

Re: Looking for an exploded parts view - Sears/ McCulloch electric start 9HP

A thousand hat-tips to Willyclay for that link!

Yesterday I got a little anal and drug out the Dremel with the wire wheel to buff off as much rust/corrosion as I could from the condensers of both the 9 and the 7.5. Then I shot them with a generous spray of clear varnish.

Observation: The condensers out of the 7.5 are slightly longer than the ones from the 9. They are also aftermarket, where the 9's bear the McCulloch name. Also, the 9's Mac condensers charge 5 or 6 times faster than the aftermarket versions. Also, both pairs match each other in bench-testing: Both Macs are fast-charging and both aftermarkets are slow-charging. Finally, I found a dent in one of the Macs, so opted to go with the aftermarket guys. And while I was at it I installed new kill wires.

Back together again and....Ta-DA! *SUCCESS* Got the top plug to fire!

Not so fast buster.

Lost fire to the bottom plug. *sigh*

Drug out the Dremel/wire wheel to knock off any varnish on all 4 mounting tabs: no change.

I'm prepared to conclude that my bench-testing method may be wanting.

Swapped the larger condensers for the smaller ones.

Got fire back to the bottom plug.

You guessed it: Lost fire to the top plug.

Today I shop for a couple of condensers.

From left field: Under the stator plate there's a thin plastic/nylon washer that fits atop the crank - about 2"D and maybe 1/2" wide. I ASSUMED it was there to provide a slick bearing surface for the spring clamps that secure the stator plate down. But then I got to wondering about a dicey ground from the stator plate to the engine block. I'm SERIOUSLY considering adding a braided copper wire directly from the stator plate to the block. <--Am I spinning my wheels here?

 

[F_R]

Re: Looking for an exploded parts view - Sears/ McCulloch electric start 9HP

Yeah, sort of spinning, I would say. You are correct in thinking the plate should be grounded. But that is only for a return path for the electricity that just jumped the spark plug gap. It does not have to be a "good" ground, since the high spark voltage will arc across any crud that may be in the way. Certainly, there must be some metal-to-metal contact SOMEWHERE between the plate and block.

The ground to the block is not necessary for the low voltage primary circuit to function.

Have you seriously cleaned those breaker points? I mean taken them apart and polished each contact individually. Poor breaker contact is the cause of 90% of ignition / no-spark problems. Don't take them for granted---clean them.

BTW, several posts back you mentioned the coils being riveted to the plate. Yes, they are. And they are not to be removed, because the will not fit another plate. If a coil must be replaced, you must slide it off the laminated core.

EDIT: Following up, since you have gotten spark off both coils at some time, chances are the secondary circuit is ok. That takes us right back to the primary circuit--points and condensers. I gotta repeat myself, get those points clean. They are the most likely item to make intermittant contact.

All other factors being equal, charge time for a condenser is directly related to it's capacity. For instance, a 0.3 mfd condenser takes longer to charge than a 0.2 mfd one. The missing part of the equation is there probably is nobody here that knows what the mfd specs are for your motor. Even if we did, you need a capacitance meter to test them for that. However, if they charge and discharge at all, and are anywhere near the correct capacity, they should work. Maybe not at 100% efficiency, but they should at least work.

 

[jim j geezer]

Re: Looking for an exploded parts view - Sears/ McCulloch electric start 9HP

New caps are in, although I hadda settle for the kind that have a threaded shaft for the 'hot' lead. No matter - I fashioned some leads and got 'em installed. Now I've got spark to both plugs!

I shot in some fuel mix to both cylinders and screwed in the plugs. Hit the "start" button and........... *VAROOM* - away it went- briefly. I diddle have a fuel line installed so it was the best I could expect.

Time to move it to the test tank, right?

Nope.

The front panel has to be installed in order for the choke to work.

THAT means......... tear it down again. Can't access the top of the carb - which has to come off in order to reinstall the choke plate, with the flywheel in place. *sigh*
There is NO ROOM to install the front panel's mounting hardware - without specialized surgical instruments.

Got the front panel on and THEN remembered I'd hafta feed the recoil starter rope thru the front. Untied the knot. *ZZZLIP* The cord wound up enough to disengage the rewind spring. Gotta pull it apart again.

Bonus: Hadda get the top front panel mounting hardware outta the way in order to mount the panel. *bloop* - out popped the roller the rope rides on - into the grass. It's aluminum, so a magnet's useless. Gonna hafta fabricate another one. I'm SO looking forward to fitting it.

F_R, I agree that points are WAY up there for engine problems. Several times I've mentioned using a Dremel with a wire wheel. I've got those things shining like chrome. Point of useful information: Most contact points are PLATED to reduce pitting & corrosion. The lesson is that it can be counter-productive to go all nutso in "dressing" points. Remove all that plating and the points might work for a while, but will degrade and pit more quickly. For quickie cleaning I use a narrow strip of folded 1000 grit wet-or-dry sandpaper.

Good to know about the approach to swapping out coils. Thanks.

Tomorrow I expect to have the critter running in my test barrel. Anticipate a link to a youtube video assuming success.

Aside: This outboard came equipped with a combo male/female connector to the starter battery. I failed miserably at finding a mate to that plug. Went to my home center and bought a 25' 16-3 extension cord. Cut off the ends and cut it in half. Paralleled all three conductors in both ~12' lengths - one for positive and one for negative. Crimped and soldered on ring connectors. I was pleasantly surprised to see how rapidly the starter spun the engine with the plugs in place.

 

[jim j geezer]

Re: Looking for an exploded parts view - Sears/ McCulloch electric start 9HP

Update:

Spent a fair amount of time fashioning a prop hub. I diddle wanna run it without a load. Got lucky and found a PVC plumbing fitting (a reducer) that just fit over the prop hub. Dremel to the rescue! The shear pin slightly extends beyond the diameter of the prop hub. Installed a tiny Dremel tool that resembles a 1/8" straight router bit. Hollowed out two groves 180 degrees from each other on the inside of the PVC reducer. Now the shear pin is captured by the reducer. Added a short length of 1/2" PVC to the reduced end, then glued on a cap. Looks a little hokey, but serves the purpose.

Homegrown prop nut

I've already mentioned that I failed to find a replacement OEM plug for the starter battery connection. So I improvised by buying 25' 16/3 extension cord and crimping/soldering on some ring connectors after paralleling all three conductors. I now have a nice long line cord that lets me put the battery anywhere in the boat I want.

All three conductors paralleled

Long battery leads allow for boat loading versatility

Oddball observation: After I got the engine onto the test tank I happened to notice than if I hand-crank (*shudder*), the wire linkage to the choke plate got pulled up and latched onto the underside of the flywheel when the magnets came around.

I lost the link to the vid that doesn't really show what I wanted, but it has to do with the choke plate. That is, when I shove the choke knob all the way in, the choke plate still covers almost 1/2 the carb's inlet. <--That can't be right!

Still - got it running! And BOTH water pumps work well!

It doesn't idle well though. Gotta do some reading. Idled it down and popped it into gear and it promptly died. Twice.

DAYUM, does it ever rev UP!!!

 

[Willyclay]

Re: Looking for an exploded parts view - Sears/ McCulloch electric start 9HP

Several attaboys in that post!

 

[jim j geezer]

Re: Looking for an exploded parts view - Sears/ McCulloch electric start 9HP

WOO HOO! Lucked out! A friend stopped by yesterday who's a small engine guru. I described the 'poor idle' condition and the fact that it'd die as soon as I put it in gear. He asked if I'd run a wire through the idle adjust screw port. I hadn't. I'd shot carb cleaner through it and the cleaner came out through the carb throat.

Tsk, tsk... Not good enough.

Today I removed the idle adjust screw and ran a fine wire in there. I didn't feel any resistance, but.....
When I put it back together the idle had improved and it went into gear and kept running! Both forward and reverse.

Recommended Champion plugs are DJ8J - which also look like they belong in a weed-whacker. I'd been using CJ8s. I saw 2 differences between the two plug types: (1) the CJs use a washer, and (2) the CJs take a larger wrench. The DJs have no washer and sport a tapered seat.

I have a few lingering questions:

1. It still seems to idle 'rough' - which doesn't make sense since not only does it have the flywheel for inertia, but also has the starter/generator armature spinning with the crank. Seems like the added weight would help smooth things out at the low end.

2. What's the nominal output of the generator supposed to be? It won't be much - maybe 3-7A.

Aside: I'm pretty sure a lawn tractor battery would pack enough punch to start this thing for a typical day of fishing.

3. Is this known to be a "cold-hearted" outboard? After a cold start I have to baby-sit the choke to keep it running. After a minute or so it seems to settle down and behave. Also, hand cranking cold is non-productive. Warm and it's a single pull to get it running.

 

[jim j geezer]

Re: Looking for an exploded parts view - Sears/ McCulloch electric start 9HP

DOH! <--Think: Homer Simpson

Today I decided to take the Mac 9HP electric for an actual test run... combined with a short fishing trip. Got launched easily enough, but it was a bit breezy - pushing me into the weeds. I cut short the warm-up time and with the engine running at fast idle, popped it into gear.

*PHHHT*

Tried reverse.

*PHHHT*

Dropped down the bow-mounted trolling motor and set out to fish.

Caught 3. 2 bluegills a respectable 8-year-old wouldn't use for bait, and a 2# bass - which is the supper I'm currently eating.

After bringing the boat back onto the trailer and up the ramp, I spun the prop.

>>sheared pin<<

THAT......... never crossed my mind! I thought for sure I'd atomized the shift dog.

Which brings me to the subject of shear pin material. Generally, I like to use brass. But after reading the service manual, I find that a steel shear pin is used when there's a shock-mounted prop.

Question: Is it STAINLESS steel?

Any insight/details you can offer will be appreciated.