1957 Gale 12S13 Cracked Crank Case

[Crowsbeak]

I picked up a 1957 Wards Sea King GG9016C which my research has told me is a 1957 Gale 12S13 Standard (thanks F_R). From what I read these motors are considerd to be pretty reliable and when I went to buy the motor the owner said he used it last fall and when we hauled it out of his shed and hooked up the gas it started on the second pull. When I got it home I was excited to find cracked original coils figuring it had very few hours on it and no one had messed with it too much. As I started disassembly I noticed quite a bit of oil all over the motor but I figured it was just a bad upper seal. When I removed the magneto plate I was disappointed to find the crank case lip cracked at the oil slinger on both halves of the crankcase split. I talked to the person I bought it from and he said he had another parts motor with a leaking lower unit and running power head he would sell me cheap. So I pulled the powerhead and noticed that these motors have a split on the exhaust leg where the powerhead mounts. Before I invest more money into getting this motor up and running I am curious if any knows if this split mounting frequently causes the crank case halves to crack on this motor?

Thanks,

Jeff

 

[Crowsbeak]

No Title

Pics of what I mean.

 

[F_R]

The powerhead / exhaust housing are normal for the 12S models. 12D models are different (assuming same year). Nah, that has nothing to do with the problem upstairs. Looks like some body has attacked that with a pry for unknown reasons. Hey, it might even work if the mag plate fits and pivots freely (???)

 

[Crowsbeak]

Thank you F_R I picked up the other donor motor and will build one from two. The new power head has no cracks in the crank case and good compression. While stripping the mag plate from the new powerhead it was stuck a little and I had gently to pry the cam off. It dawned on me that the previous owner must have done the same thing only used a little too much force. The new donor motor is a GG9016A I assume the lower unit from the previous motor will bolt right in and the gas tank and cowling will also bolt up? I have a gale service maunul but wonder if someone has a powerhead list of part numbers for the new GG9016A and also which carb kit I need to order?

Thanks,

Jeff

 

[F_R]

No Title

GG9016A doesn't seem to exist. Here is GG9016B (12S12)

 

[Crowsbeak]

Thank you very much for the parts diagram Frank! According to my manual the GG9016A equates to a gale 12D11, but it Lumps the 12D11, 12S12 and 12S13 together so they all must be very similar other than year.

Will the brp 439071 carb kit be the correct one?

Thanks again,

Jeff

 

[Crowsbeak]

Well, I got around combining the two motors to build one good one. I resealed the lower unit and replaced the shift shaft seal and clutch dog, rebuilt the carb and rebuilt the ignition including new plug wires on the motor. I can jump a 1/2 gap with a blue/white spark and a 1/4 inch gap with a sharp snappy blue spark. The carb passed the blow test before reassembly and I adjusted the link and sync. I transferred the fuel pump (as I knew this fuel pump worked as the motor with the cracked power-head ran when it was on it) from the cracked power-head to the new 12D11 power-head and added new fuel lines and new fuel pump gasket and removed the bypass cover set screw.

My problem is I cannot get the new power-head to even fire a little, I sprayed fuel and even ether in the plug holes and still no joy. I checked the compression and both cylinders registered exactly 50 on a loan a tool tester from advance auto. I checked them both 3 times and always the same exactly 50 both cylinders. I know this is low but since they are cold I assume it will come up if the engine ever fires and warms up. It also seems to me to indicate the head gasket is nor blown. I keep spraying deep creep into the cylinders every night to maybe loosen things up. The carb seems to be getting gas from the fuel pump but should at least off what is in the bowl if the pump is an issue I would think.

Any Idea wh at I should look at next is greatly appreciated.

​Jeff

 

[RCO]

Wire from the front coil going to the top cylinder? Dumb question, but I'm guilty of putting them backwards before.

 

[Crowsbeak]

RCO, thank you for the quick reply! I did double check the wiring, even swapped them just to double double check, great thought though. I also set the timing with FR's fixture as well, and the plugs worked in another motor.

 

[F_R]

50 psi is awfully low.

 

[Crowsbeak]

Dang, I was hoping to hear these old gales all had low compression! I will keep putting the sea foam and pull the bypass covers to get an idea if the rings have any spring to them. Any other thoughts or ideas are welcome.

 

[Crowsbeak]

Great news, after spraying sea foam in the cylinders and letting soak all weekend the rings seem to have loosened up and the compression has come up to 60 in both cylinders! Progress is being made. Would anyone have a ballpark number I should be looking for before trying to start it again? Is there a way to calculate a rough number based on displacement? According to the manual these have a 2.25 bore and a 2.25 stroke for a displacement of 17.89 inches.

 

[JDusza]

I'd look for 80-90 psi.
If your spark is strong and the engine doesn't even try to fire when premix is sprayed into the cylinders, then your timing is way off.
imho
J

 

[Crowsbeak]

Thanks for the reply J! I'll keep soaking through the weekend, recheck all wiring and try to get it started again next week.

 

[Crowsbeak]

I recognize I have a firing issue but could the fact that these carbs had the larger 376137 needle and seat to allow for gravity feeding from the built in tank be an issue if used with a fuel pump? Could it overpower the float? I believe the 12D11, 12S12, and 12S13 all had the fuel pump as an option, so did the needle need to be modified to fit the new smaller 375985 which is now a sierra 18-7094? I checked the Viking 12D13V manual posted online and that did not have the gravity tank and had the aforementioned 18-7094 smaller needle? When I did my carb rebuild I had to reuse the existing needle and seat since it was a larger thread size and larger needle opening than those supplied in the 439071 carb kit.

 

[Vintage Iron]

Just a thought - When you pulled the plugs, were they wet and did they smell of gasoline? If no gas smell, consider rechecking your reed valves for free movement. Mine stuck shut and it gave me fits for a couple of days.

Dave

 

[Crowsbeak]

Dave, thanks for the reply and good idea. I went to test the motor again last night and verify the plugs as suggested and unfortunately my recoil spring broke on the 1st pull, argh.. I'll try to replace it with the spring from the donor motor but does anyone know if part number 0395460 would be the correct replacement spring for this starter? I was able to recheck compression earlier and I'm know up to 60 on the top and 62 on the bottom so I am thinking it should at least start with those numbers correct? Thanks again everyone for the continued help and support.

Jeff

 

[Crowsbeak]

No Title

I was able to attach the donor motor starter and after pulling the carb and checking the reed valves sure enough there were spider eggs in there holding both sets of reeds open. I cleaned everything up reinstalled the reed plate and carb and she fired on the second pull!! After some carb adjusting she began to idle pretty well I did have frothy water leaking by the bottom near the oil line and wonder if putting grease in the shifter handle will eliminate this. Also quite a bit of gas leaking on port side of carb so I wonder if my float isn't closing all the way, my carb kit didn't have a new float so I had just crazy glued the old cork float so maybe I will get one of the new plastic floats to hold that big needle closed when used a fuel pump.

She runs though! I was really pulling my hair out on this one. Dave thanks again for the great advice and hopefully this will help somebody in the future.

​Jeff

 

[Crowsbeak]

I have had the opportunity to use this motor on my boat quite a bit while on vacation this week. I starts and runs quite well. I performed a decarb and got a big chunk of carbon to expel out the exhaust.

I do get a tarry looking oil drip from either the base gasket or the bottom of the exhaust gasket that runs down the exhaust leg while using it. Is this an issue? Is it likely just old gaskets? If so does someone have the part numbers for those 2 gaskets? The powerhead in use is the 12D11, so I'm not sure if the exhaust gasket is different between the 12s12 and 12d11.

Thanks,

JEFF

 

[Crowsbeak]

I verified the exhaust gaskets are the same. Can anyone help out with a part number for the base gasket?

Thank you,

Jeff