Aarrggghhhh- Sea King 25 fuel woes (Gale 25hp)

racemybuick

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Jul 2, 2009
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Im currently trying desperately to get this awesome Sea King 25hp to run right. It runs phenomenal for all of about a minute at high speed and craps out. If I keep up with the primer, I'm golden.

Here is what Im working with... It is a 1961-62 Montgomery Ward "Gale" Sea King 25hp outboard, model number GG18738, serial 16X812221

I have been in contact several times and chewed the ear off Sherwood at discount marine (god bless his soul), and I have properly installed all necessary tune-up and related items... I teach auto shop in NJ, so Im pretty handy, and I am an old school type of guy that restores steam engines and hit and miss engines with my father, so we like these oldies and want to keep them going. I had intermittent to no spark when I got the motor, so a set of condensers, coils, points, wires, plugs, and a carb rebuild were all performed. It idles perfect, almost flawless. It even runs on 1/4 throttle at a decent pace. But 1/2 throttle and up seems to loose its prime and the glass bowl runs dry. So, using the old mechanic thought in me, if I pump the primer and it runs great that typically means you are loosing prime, it is a bad pump. I called up Sherwood again, and he had a new pump for me ready to go. I installed the pump last week and I found that the previous owner must have changed the pump before, as there were two different gaskets between the pump and motor. A large flat had gasket that covered the entire back of the pump, and then the small two hole flange gasket on the block. I thought that was odd. I installed the new pump with the single gasket, took it on the lake on sunday with my daughter, and we are right back to having to prime it for the duration of our ride. It actually seemed to loose its prime faster than with the old pump.

The tank and line were suspect, however, I use them religiously with a Johnson 6hp sea horse with no issues at all.

Any thoughts, help, suggestions, please feel free. Please dont tell me to junk it. This is a cool engine with a great look. I paid $25 at a garage sale and I have about $220 invested. If I wanted that 15hp mariner from the local guy, Im still about $600 ahead of the game, so I think Im still in the green. But I need a motor. The lake is way too big for my little old Johnson 6hp sea horse... Please help!


John
 

F_R

Supreme Mariner
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Jul 7, 2006
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28,195
First, the glass bowl always runs nearly empty. Don't ask me why, that's just the way they are. Something about osmosis or something. Second, that large gasket was supposed to be a heat shield. Kind of weird, since it is mounted on the coolest part of the powerhead. If it gets hot enough to affect the pump, you have more than fuel issues to worry about. In other words, toss it and don't worry about it.

OK, it certainly would seem you have a fuel pump problem. I suggest you temporary tee a fuel pressure gage in between the pump and carburetor to see what you actually are getting. I don't remember off-hand what is expected, maybe 2-3 PSI (??). How about the filter element? Is it dirty and restricting the flow? Is the float set correctly in the carburetor?

BTW. I wouldn't tell you to junk a Gale. I only have 7 or 8 of them.
 

racemybuick

Cadet
Joined
Jul 2, 2009
Messages
14
I had a suggestion from another gale collector that possibly a reed valve issue? The fuel tank and line are brand new and my Johnson 6 runs perfect with them... I am trying to find a fuel gauge that can record the low pressure. My shop guage starts at 5psi... I just rebuilt the carb and the float is on correctly (it actually cant be installed easily in the wrong direction... I dont know how else to adjust the float... I thought maybe it is closing too early but then I started to think that it cant be the float because the engine runs perfect at idle or without the prop engaged... As soon as I hit the water and push teh trottle up, it dies within a minute or less unless I prime it. I am not sure how the motor pulls vacuum to the pump, but maybe that port is messed up or it is loosing pressure in the case... Any thoughts?


Thank you as always,

John
 

steelespike

Supreme Mariner
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Apr 26, 2002
Messages
19,069
There is a lower transfer port on the starboard side of the power head.You will find the fuel pump attached to it.
Pulses make to pump move fuel.
 

gddavid

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Jan 4, 2010
Messages
193
I'm not sure about your year and hp but the old Johnson/evinrude/sea kings had pressurized tanks rather than what is now a conventional pressure pulse driven fuel pump. Most were retrofitted over the years to work with non-pressurized tanks as the old tanks rusted out. I am curious what you fuel pump you just installed as it certainly sounds like your problem. A small pin hole in the diaphragm or a leak at the gasket will keep it from working.

Back when men were men and the greatest generation ran around with pressurized gas cans in their boats. Fearless.
 
Last edited:

steelespike

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Apr 26, 2002
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For some reason the remote Gale motors always had a normal system with a pulsed pump.
 

F_R

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Jul 7, 2006
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If it runs ok except for not pumping fuel, the pulses are there. So it isn't a bad reed valve. Gotta be a bad pump or sucking air, or restricted delivery system. And yes, all Gales with remote tanks were fuel pump equipped. They never did use the Evinrude/Johnson pressure tanks. Lastly, low pressure fuel pressure gauges are generally combined with a manifold vacuum gauge. Maybe they are too old-school now that everything is fuel injection?? Hey, I'm old too.
 

F_R

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I just looked up the minimum fuel pressure specs for a newer motor (1972). It ranges from 1 psi at slow idle to 2.5 psi at 4500 RPM.
 

racemybuick

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Jul 2, 2009
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My fuel issues continue... My father thinks it might be crank seals, but Im not getting a lot of waste or residue at the flywheel, just a little at the bottom... It still idles perfect and runs awesome for all of 30 seconds at full throttle, then falls flat... Im so fed up... It has blown my mechanical experience out of the water...
 

F_R

Supreme Mariner
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Jul 7, 2006
Messages
28,195
If it starts, idles, and runs awhile at high speed, it in not a mechanical problem such as crank seals, reeds or crankcase leaks. It is a fuel delivery problem, simple at that. It is not supplying fuel to the carburetor as fast as it is consuming it. I would suggest fuel pump, but you say you replaced it (with a new one??). Old pumps go bad with age as the diaphragm petrifies. If not the pump, there has to be a leak ahead of the pump (sucking air instead of fuel) or a restriction somewhere, or a problem not letting fuel into the carburetor fast enough.

Buy, beg, borrow, steal a fuel pressure / vacuum gauge.
 

tomhath

Master Chief Petty Officer
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Dec 5, 2007
Messages
814
Are you sure you have the correct fuel pump? I'm not sure, but that motor might require a higher capacity pump than is sold for the smaller motors.
 

bentle

Chief Petty Officer
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Aug 2, 2011
Messages
492
Just a thought as I am lurking around the forum. What type of fuel tank are you using. Could the vent to the fuel tank be closed or plugged up? Assuming you have a primer bulb, squeeze it until it gets firm, recheck it in just a few minutes and verify it's still firm, also squeeze it firm again and verify if it's collapsing or still full of fuel while motor is running, could be a bad check valve or bad quick connect on the fuel line.
If the fuel tank is building vacuum pressure the pump will not be able to draw enough fuel to keep the motor running at higher rpms and your primer bulb may feel a bit flat.
 
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