1992 OMC5.0L No Fuel at startup

[pantaloonz]

Good day!

Quick history: Bought the boat last fall after it had been on the water that previous summer (early summer) but still it was running.

New to boats so I didn't want to take any chances, especially when I brought it home, lowered the trim and water came out . It had not even been close to dropping below freezing so there was no chance at all of water/freeze problems.

I took the boat to a marina for winterization: They did normal procedures, the tank is not metal so it was completely drained, lower unit normal stuff, checked gimbal, new filters all that typical stuff. Marina noted dead battery so I knew I'd have to replace that at first start.

Fast forward to last weekend (boat sat covered all winter)

I added 5 gallons of new fuel
--probably not a good idea but I tried charging the old battery first, and supply 50 amps "start" setting just to see if the engine would kick over. No luck there, even with the 50amps boosting the engine was sluggish at best, no where near enough to supply a good start.

Installed the replacement battery. Much stronger ignition, but not a single turn over. Figured needed time to prime the entire system.. added a squirt of starter fluid in the neck to confirm suspicion and it would "pop" but not keep going.

Called Marina; old gruff technician: "we started your boat during winterization, but we drained the fuel so crank that sucker for a couple minutes and keep pumping it.."

I followed those instructions. -- granted I did not turn the key for two continuous minutes... (that would ruin the battery right?).. but I tried starting it, pumping the throttle, 10-20 seconds of turning it over at a time.. nothing. Did this for about 10 minutes.

I had oil pressure, but it's a mechanical fuel pump.. so I don't know how I'd hear the damn thing even if it was working?

So I pulled up the boards covering the tank. I traced the line from the anti-syphon value to the water/fuel separator and into the fuel pump. I disconnected the fuel line at this connection point (carburetor inlet). It was bone dry and didn't even smell like gas.

*to my dumb mechanical mind I can only thing of a couple things; either the pump cannot pull the fuel, or the pump is bad..

*I didn't check the fuel filter, it was replaced at winterization, and it appears no fuel is passing the water/fuel separator anyway...

*checked the anti-syphon valve; working normally, no screen on the bottom of the fuel uptake and the tube was clear.

I suspect a failed fuel pump, but of course want to rule other electrical issues out as the replacement of this part scares me (even if I could find it)

Some suspect electric issues:

-- blower will not turn on.. -- this appears to be on purpose the p.o. seems to have borrowed the electric plug for the bilge pump and left the blower unplugged.

-- Trim gauge constantly reads UP (though the trim works great)

-- Fuel gauge reads empty (approximately 8 gallons in there now)

-- The two circuit breakers are not flush.. but I don't know if these means they are tripped or not? I can't push them back in anyway?

Not a pic from my engine but they are in this exact position slightly out.. I think this is normal.




-- just reading my own post.. no I haven't checked the water/fuel separator device as I don't know how that thing comes off (yet).. but can that device completely stop the fuel flow?.. do they tend to go bad over a season?


ANY suggestions are well appreciated!

-- I completed renovated the entire interior of this boat.. I'm so frustrated that I can't get it to turn over

-Pantz

 

[HT32BSX115]

Howdy,

Well, it looks like you found the main culprit. NO fuel out of the fuel pump. This either due to a plugged fuel screen, stuck anti-siphon check valve, plugged fuel filter or a failed fuel pump.

You said you checked the fuel screen and AS-valve. How did you do that exactly? Did you remove both and push a small tool into the check valve to ensure the check ball moves against the spring? You removed the fuel pickup tube and the screen is missing? If it is missing, you should get another one. Small debris in the tank WILL eventually foul the anti-siphon valve.

If the fuel pump was "dry" it's possible one or both of the check valves in the pump are stuck open. Since those pumps are not generally rebuildable, you'll need to replace it. You can test by putting a piece of hose in a small portable tank and connecting to the fuel pump inlet. Crank the engine and see if the pump primes.

If you haven't checked the fuel filter/separator, you're not done and yes, they can be completely plugged.

It helps if you post your (engine/drive package) model number and year (your engine may be a 1991 model). there's a fair amount of differences from year to year and while it may not be as relevant to this problem it helps for other things.

Go to http://epc.brp.com/ for part numbers and illustrations. (email address not needed)

If you don't have a manual, go to http://boatinfo.no/lib/library.html

Regards,


Rick

 

[pantaloonz]

Rick

This is extremely helpful, and yes you rightly called out that I have left out important information such as the model numbers and specific years.
I was in a bit of a hurry to get something posted to get some good feedback, of which you have provided!

I have the stern drive manual, and as such I will locate my engine number and year as well and the website you have provided will surely be handy.

The fuel pickup is definitely missing: how did I find it? Yes ;... I removed the hose from the A/S valve, unscrewed the AS valve, depressed the ball with a small tool and it moved effortlessly. At which point I unscrewed the pickup and tube, wiped it, noticed no debris or gunk, but noticed no screen either.

Can you suggest a screen gauge/size to install, I agree that gunk will get up there.

I got intimidated by the filter/separator hardware and didn't take that apart, though I definitely need to man up and go after it.

I'll grab a portable tank and hose as that can prove useful in many testing scenarios.

Tonight, if possible

1. Check the seperator
2. Test the prime


Possibly 3) I don't see an inline filter.. maybe there is a filter at the carb inlet that is gummed up?

Your response is incredibly helpful, and I feel less dumb like I'm actually on the right track.

-Pantz

 

[Bondo]

Can you suggest a screen gauge/size to install, I agree that gunk will get up there.

Ayuh,..... Leave it an open tube,... The canister filter is where ya want All the crud to end up,.....

Much easier to change, than at the end of the pickup tube,....

I'll grab a portable tank and hose as that can prove useful in many testing scenarios.

A gallon jug, 'n a length of 3/8" fuel line can do in a test situation,....

 

[HT32BSX115]

Yeah. You can certainly leave screen off. The filter will stop anything that might make it to the pump. The "down-side" of no screen is some debris can get stuck in the anti-siphon check valve, but it won't likely cause a fuel blockage (unless there's a LOT of debris)

In 20+ years, my fuel tank is absolutely pristine-clean! So, I wouldn't worry too much about it.

 

[pantaloonz]

Guys,

This is very hard to admit.. but such is life. The engine kill switch was bad.. the plunger was stuck. (really embarrassing) :embarassed:

Once the kill switch plunger came all the way out the engine started to kick over.

Once I had that, I reconnected the water line to the muffs.

I can get the engine to turn over every time, but it just immediately dies out.

Being a new boat owner I'm not sure how hard to press this starting situation, if the engine just dies out I don't think it would be good for me to continue to hold the key in ignition..hurt the starter?

The engine will turn over with various vigor depending on where I put the throttle (that makes perfect sense of course); It scared the crap out of me when I started it wide open..the RPM's went through the roof and there was a loud backfire.

Also it appears now when it's really getting close to starting it issues a loud screech, (sounds like a bad alternator belt screech from a car to me)

A lot of white smoke could be seen during the process, and when I was done white smoke was issuing out of the propeller (not a lot just wisps)

Again, I'm new to boats and their 'smells' but I was a bit anxious about the odor as it smelled a little oily,. but the smoke was not black.

I'm going to ask an experienced boater to join me and listen and observe my start up to ensure I'm not missing yet another 'newbie' mistake.

-Pantz

 

[pantaloonz]

of course now I'm a bit confused as I think about this today...

This button is right next to the steering wheel....I would think that if the plunger was allowed to come off that would indicate that I went flying off the boat and the engine would die... (which technically it is, it starts up then dies right away)

But before..when the lanyard was attached,.. it wouldn't turn over at all...

Someone please cure my idiocy?

-Pantz

 

[Bondo]

Ayuh,.... Do ya have a picture,..?? is this a man overboard switch,..?? By-pass it, take it outa the equation,....

Do ya have a Test Light,..?? With the key in the "On" position,....
The purple wires on the motor, the Ignition circuit, should be Hot, 'n light yer test light,.....

 

[pantaloonz]

Hi Bondo,

This issue is solved. Though I'm not entirely sure how I fixed it. First off the lanyard was not the problem that is working as intended.

Here is what I think happened

During my troubleshooting I started at the water separator. I disconnected the inlet and outlet and pulled the unit out. Then I routed the tube from the tank directly to the fuel pump inlet.

Unfortunately this is when I pulled the lanyard off the kill switch. This led to the boat starting but immediately stalling.

So last night I reconnected the separator and voila...started right up and idled beautifully.

Maybe I cleared a vapor lock or cleared whatever gunk/block was preventing normal operations.

Now it's time to figure out why the trim wont stay up and the only components that are working are the ones wired direct.

- no horn no blower no lights : the float switch properly actuated the bilge but the dash switch does nothing.. test light time.

Thanks for all the help.
-pantz