OMC 4.3L Help Needed --TRICKY-- See if you can Diag

mutiny

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May 30, 2013
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Hello again everyone! I've ran across a very odd problem which I hope someone here can shed some insight. I have a customer with a 1986 OMC 4.3L V-6 GM block which came to me with the task of giving him a spring tune up and a few other small odds and ends maintenance. He told me that the engine doesn't seem to get up and go like it used to, and felt that a tune up would do the trick since he has not had one done in a few years. I changed out the cap, rotor, condenser, points, wires, and plugs and the trusty 4.3 fired up instantly but ran with a slight hiccup . I specifically made sure to gap the plugs properly, set the points, and check dwell, and timing. With a few minor tweaks and adjustments, everything came out to spec. He took the boat out on the lake and found that it was still acting funny when trying to achieve WOT, so I went with him on a lake test. The boat seems to misfire around 3000 rpm and will only reach around 3500 and feels like a chugging, poor run condition. It has the feeling as if the engine was not timed correctly, so of course I verified timing on the lake. Still no resolve. I took the boat back to my shop where I did the normal series of tests, fuel, compression, spark, etc. I found while the boat is at idle, spark is intermittent on cylinder #3 and #4. The worse of the two is #3. I threw a timing light on #3 and noticed that the engine picked up a little when spark was present which was one hit to every 4 rotations or so.

I tore down the ignition system again checking all of its components. This time I examined the distributor cam, verified my points to be set at .018 and my dwell was at 40* which spec for dwell is 38*-41*. I used a bump switch to watch #3 and #4 cam lobes to make sure that the points opened and they opened perfectly with .018 between each cam. Put it all together, and BAM.. still a huge fail. I installed all of the above mentioned ignition parts all over with NEW and verified everything when done.. Still no change.

At this point I am lost. I again did another compression check where each cylinder, (all 6) scored a 180 to 185 rating. I've learned that if I remove the #3 or #4 wire from the distributor and hold it about an inch away from the contact, that they both fire perfectly every time. Once I push the wire end back down into the distributor, no more spark.. Well, intermittent spark. I've even tried to use electric grease inside all of the contact points just as a hail marry but nothing... Asked a few old timer mechanics around town and they said they had no clue. Any insight would be awesome, Thanks...

P.S. Almost forgot, we tossed in a new ignition coil just for safe measures, and chased down all the grounds we could find. All wires seem to have good clean connections.
 

wcasey5

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Re: OMC 4.3L Help Needed --TRICKY-- See if you can Diag

Did you keep the old distributor cap and rotor? Sounds like your new one is a DOA, and I've never personally had a good experience with dielectric grease, ever. But maybe I have been doing it wrong. The other possibility is that your ignition advance isn't working, or dirty jets in the carb. That's all I got.
 

mutiny

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May 30, 2013
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Re: OMC 4.3L Help Needed --TRICKY-- See if you can Diag

Did you keep the old distributor cap and rotor? Sounds like your new one is a DOA, and I've never personally had a good experience with dielectric grease, ever. But maybe I have been doing it wrong. The other possibility is that your ignition advance isn't working, or dirty jets in the carb. That's all I got.

Yep, sure did keep the old distributor cap and rotor. The problem was the same with the old ones as well as 2 sets of new. I've had the same experience with dielectric grease but figured what the heck, as my desperation grew stronger. Thanks for the reply.
 

Howard Sterndrive

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Re: OMC 4.3L Help Needed --TRICKY-- See if you can Diag

no mention of new spark plugs. could be bad plugs.
 

astuckey

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Re: OMC 4.3L Help Needed --TRICKY-- See if you can Diag

You said that when you put the timing light on the #3 you saw that there was no spark for some rotations. I would check your coil voltage and run a jumper from the battery to the pos side of the coil and see if you still have no spark for some revolutions of the #3. Something might be drawing power from the coil. I had a similar problem and when I unplugged the small connector on the ESA it stopped the problem. I don't really know why that helped, but it did.
 

mutiny

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Re: OMC 4.3L Help Needed --TRICKY-- See if you can Diag

You said that when you put the timing light on the #3 you saw that there was no spark for some rotations. I would check your coil voltage and run a jumper from the battery to the pos side of the coil and see if you still have no spark for some revolutions of the #3. Something might be drawing power from the coil. I had a similar problem and when I unplugged the small connector on the ESA it stopped the problem. I don't really know why that helped, but it did.

Well that will be addressed, however I did change the ignition coil. I do understand what you are saying though, and that a draw before the coil may be the culprit. I am still in the dark on this one so if I get this thing figured out, I will slap up a new post on this thread. Thanks for the advice, I'll give the direct power to coil a shot and see where it gets me.
 
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Re: OMC 4.3L Help Needed --TRICKY-- See if you can Diag

no expert but something ive seen before on other dizzys

with engine off remove the cap and ohm the outside post to the points (low resistance) then turn to full advance and see if it goes to full resistance (open).
If it does then the wire is broke under the plate and when it advances it opens.
the other thing i would check is the bearing in the dizzy as it may have to much play and is adjusting the points on one side.
 

kd7isf

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Re: OMC 4.3L Help Needed --TRICKY-- See if you can Diag

X2 on the distributor bearing...

Not possible to be carb or fuel -- you say your symptom is specific cylinders and stays there..

Biggest clue was your somewhat ill advised (due to dangerous voltage) test where you determined it would spark every time if you held the wire appx an inch from the connector....
--This result shows you some specific things you need to track down to fix this...
--This test both acts like a resistive spark plug AND retards the spark for the cylinder under test..
--First probable cause of this the wrong kind of plug. You say you replaced all of the plugs (twice....) If you used all the same plug, then this is not likely as they would ALL misfire...
--Next probable cause is improperly gapped plugs (gap too small, too close together).. Again, if you did all the plugs the same, not likely your cause..
--Next probable cause is a poorly grounded head -- common on V engines with heavy corrosion -- But probably not your cause as 3&4 are on oppasite heads.
--Next probably cause is a worn out distributor bearing (or bushing in some cases).. This is likely your problem.
---I can not remember the firing order for that engine off hand, but I'd wager 3 and 4 are right next to each other in the firing order..
---This also puts them right next to each other on the distributor..
---When a distributor bearing wears out, the shaft tends to wobble SLIGHTLY.. In your case I would say it wobbles outward towards the #3 & 4 terminals.. In a POINTS ignition this is a DISASTER and will usually be progressively worse as rpm goes up... The reason why is that by wobbling outward (think centrifical force), the shaft alters the operation of the points, reducing the time the coil has to charge and or the time the plugs have to fire... When you check it with your meter, you don't see anything wrong because there is very little disturbance at low rpm. It doesn't take much to throw points off...
-Before you pull the dizzy, it might be wise to try one more thing.. On some distributors, the points cam (the bumpy thing on the shaft that pushes the points together and or apart) is a seperate piece from the shaft and can simply be lifted off. If this is the case, take it off and reinstall it in a differant position. If the problem moves to a different cylinder(s) then the points cam is worn out.. If not, its most likely the distributor bearing...

Hope this helps...:joyous:
 

ready4lake

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Jan 26, 2012
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Re: OMC 4.3L Help Needed --TRICKY-- See if you can Diag

Have you solved this issue yet? I have the same issue. I have replaced everything in the ignition but the distributor. I am about to order a distributor tonight.
 

mutiny

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May 30, 2013
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Late response but the final repair was a couple of bad spark plugs out of the box. Swapped out NGK for Champs and she ran like it was new again. I forgot to post the fix and thought it may be helpful for someone one day. Good luck and happy boating.
 

Silvertip

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Sep 22, 2003
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I also agree on the upper distributor bushing being worn. A quick check for this is to attach the dwell meter and while at idle, the dwell may be correct. But rev the engine a bit and you may see the dwell "bounce". That bounce is caused by the "wobble" of the distributor shaft. If that's not the problem, then examine the the points you installed. Check the fixed contact button to ensure it is tight. Some aftermarket points have that contact button very poorly secured and it too can bounce. Let us know what you find. One additional check is to turn the engine so the distributor cam is positioned so #3 or #4 is just at the point where the points open. Now push and pull on the distributor shaft while watching the points. If there is wear in the bushing, the points will open and close more as you move the shaft.
 
Last edited:

bruceb58

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I am hoping the customer actually got his boat back sooner than 2 years later.
 

mutiny

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May 30, 2013
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I am hoping the customer actually got his boat back sooner than 2 years later.


Yes by far lol. I was just looking over some other posts and noticed how once most people get the results they are after, we never hear the resolution. So I decided to go back through some of my dead posts and let others know what solved the problems to hopefully help people.
 

mutiny

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
May 30, 2013
Messages
87
I also agree on the upper distributor bushing being worn. A quick check for this is to attach the dwell meter and while at idle, the dwell may be correct. But rev the engine a bit and you may see the dwell "bounce". That bounce is caused by the "wobble" of the distributor shaft. If that's not the problem, then examine the the points you installed. Check the fixed contact button to ensure it is tight. Some aftermarket points have that contact button very poorly secured and it too can bounce. Let us know what you find. One additional check is to turn the engine so the distributor cam is positioned so #3 or #4 is just at the point where the points open. Now push and pull on the distributor shaft while watching the points. If there is wear in the bushing, the points will open and close more as you move the shaft.


At the time we did check for dwell bounce. Everything tested great and found that the spark plugs were to blame. Engine running great today as the customer is a good friend of mine. Thanks for the post!
 

wcasey5

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Feb 27, 2012
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197
This is great! Seriously. I don't know how many times i've found a thread on a forum that had the exact problem i had and there is no answer. Much appreciated!
 
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