3.0L seized or outdrive?

medarwin

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Hello all,

I have an 89 Bayliner with the iron duke 3.0L and cobra outdrive. It gave me faithful service dragging kids around and fishing since 1990. I decided to take it to FL and use it for lake fishing instead of selling it as I have an Sea Pro that Iuse for salt water. I hadn't run it on water for the last 2.5 years (just starting on muffs). Dropped it in to do a little fishing after replacing some hurricane damaged roofs before I had to leave FL. Engine seemed fine until I pulled away from the dock and the boat seemed as though it had no power. At full throttle it took forever to get onto plane. Once there it ran fine, albeit at full throttle and not making much speed. We were going fishing so we shut it down, starting it up to move away from the bank, get out of weeds etc, so maybe 3-4 re-starts. Began turning over slowly so suspecting a battery issue as well we started for the dock. The boat had even less power but was not m.nissing and my temp guage was at 175, While crawling towards shore, it missed twice then there was an expensive sounding noise and the engine died. Starter couldn't move it. We got a tow and let it sit for an hour thinking it had overheated although the guage readings were normal. I had to catch a plane shortly so all I really had time for was to stow the boat and leave it. Prop spins in neutral but it IS making some noises, no resistance when turning it by hand though.

I read everything I could find on this and other forums and it seems that perhaps the outdrive could have seized and not the engine? The only outdrive issue I had in 27 years was replacing the clutch dog about 17 years ago.. And not sure why the prop would spin if the upper and/or lower drives were locked up. Un fortunately, I can't get down to look at it again until late Dec and I have a chance to buy a donor boat with a 2.3L/OMC outdrive that will fit it cheaply. Can anyone with some experience speculate on this? I suppose I can buy the boat and if wrong about the outdrive, part it out and get my $$$ back but that seems like a lot of trouble. But if I need it I don't want to let it get away as I have been searching for one (outdrive) for a month and they are VERY exepnsive considering how crappy they are thought to be. And I don't want to go the SEI route as that is cost prohibitive for a boat that is only worth $2.5-$3K when working right. If I am going to spend $2K and my labor to patch this one up it seemd like I should put those $$$ into my 21CC and write this one off to Boat Angels.

Thoughts/advice? I don't have anyone in the area to drop the lower or upper unit on right now.

Thanks to anyone who can respond,
Darwin
 

Bondo

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Ayuh,.... Welcome Aboard,.... 1st step in diagnosisin' the drive is,...

Drain the oil, 'n see if anything but oil comes out,....

If ya smoked it, there'll be metal debris in the oil,....
 

Scott Danforth

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2nd step is pull the drive

Third...pull the spark plugs

2.3 drive wont help you
 

Bondo

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Ayuh,.... I believe you'll find the Gear Ratio is different,....

'n dependin' on the prop pitch now used, changin' props may not be enough to make up the difference in gear ratios,....
 

Scott Danforth

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same case, some of the same internal parts, different gear ratios.
 

medarwin

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Isn't it possible to use the higher ratio and compensate with a different pitch prop? I realize that I would have a slower boat but keep in mind this thing is only going to be used a few times a year and pretty much has most of it's life past it.
 

Scott Danforth

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your boat, do what you want.

however you have yet to diagnose what the problem is. personally, i would never buy parts unless I knew for sure that I needed them.

3.0 outdrives are a dime a dozen
 

medarwin

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2.0-1 for 2.3L, 1.71-1 for 3.0L. I read an older thread from this forum where some indicated going two pitches up would help compensate. This is a boat that isn't worth all that much. WOuld just be nice to have it on the occasions I am in FL to fish. If it goes a little slower and uses a bit more fuel I'm OK with that.
 

medarwin

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And re-asking the original question, if the outdrive is seized would the prop still spin in neutral?
 

southkogs

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I don't know the Cobras quite well enough, so we'll let someone correct this - but if the drive seized in neutral, then yes the prop would spin. If it seized in forward or reverse, then no it wouldn't spin. Then the question becomes if the upper is seized or the lower is seized ... or the engine is seized.
 

Bondo

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2.0-1 for 2.3L, 1.71-1 for 3.0L. I read an older thread from this forum where some indicated going two pitches up would help compensate.

Ayuh,.... As I said above,.... Ya gotta know what pitch it's turnin' Now, to know if bigger props are even available,....

Standard prop pitch only ranges from 'bout 15" to maybe 23", in props that fit our drives,...

I suppose at worse, yer motor will be Screamin' as the boat slowly moves forward,...
 

medarwin

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Current pitch is 17. 19s are available readily. I am going to have someone drain the gear oil and check it for me. If no convincing clues from that I will pull the drive and try and spin the engine over. FYI, cheapest top and bottom I found was $$950 with shipping. Seems high for drives that no one wants.
 

southkogs

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Seems high for drives that no one wants.
Still plenty of 'em out there ... and it's pay that or buy a new boat for the guys who got 'em.

When I was running my Stringer drive, when I had to replace my upper I decided to risk it on a used gear case. Cheaper than buying a remanufactured. It worked out for me, but I know it doesn't always go that well.
 

Scott Danforth

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SEI has a complete conversion to one of their drives for the folk running cobra's and want to switch. its new comes with a warranty, and I think about $1500

however before you spend money, pull your drive..... its a 20 minute job and that includes grabbing a beer
 

medarwin

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Just for the benefit of the group: SEI just sent me a quote to convert ny 3.0L/Cobra to Mercruiser outdrive. The gearing the MC uses is 1.94-1, nearly identical to the 2,0-1 of the Cobra 2.3 outdrive gearing. Just FYI
 

Lou C

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While slow to not cranking can be a seized drive, with no previous issues with the drive, I'd be looking at something else first:
​Pull all the plugs and check em for rust. If they look rusted (rust on the electrodes and an orange color on the porcelain center insulator) then crank it over and get the water out, you may not be able to get it to crank if water was sitting in it longer than a week. If not then spray penetrating oil in they cyls, followed by fogging oil

This could be from a bad exhaust manifold, manifold gasket, riser, or blown head gasket. Whenever a marine engine runs rough, misses, or is very reluctant to start all of a sudden, you should always check for water in the cyls first, because you don't have much time to get the water out to save the engine from locking up.
 

medarwin

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My prior post was regarding determining whether my outdrive or engine siezed (thanks for all responses). I was able to get back to FL and the boat today. I pulled the drive, apparently the gears in the bottom end seized which caused the upper end to grind itself to bits. Engine is fine.

The boat is an '89. I want to replace it with a tested, used unit ( I priced an SEI and it is more than the value of the boat after repairs). I know that an '86-'92 3.0 outdrive can swap in. Question: Are there any years post-'92 that I can bolt up without mods? I don't want to write off the boat but I don't want to spend a ton of money on something I'm going to use 5-6 times per year.

Any and all help appreciated.

Darwin
 
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