OMC King Cobra Stern Drive not going into Neutral

[stancalame]

I keep coming back to the well! The last time boat was out I noticed that it periodically would not go into neutral right away with shidter in nuetral position. I could move toward reverse and back to neutral and it I could feelI it go to Neutral. I assume this is a linkage adjustment and I have read the manual on how to do it so I am goof wetih that procedure. My questions are:

1)What would cause this to happen? Boat has shifted into and out of forward however the issue seems to have gotten worse over time. It used to delay for afew seconds then come out of gear.

2) I have my outdrive off for maintenance and dont see anything wrong with lower shift mechanism however I'm not sure what to look for. Should I put lower unit back together first and then address shifting issue or is there something I should check while I've got it apart? It would be a real pain to have the pull the out drive right back off.

Boat has OMC 574AERGD with King Cobra Stern Drive. I've been told I have a cone clutch because my drive has the dipstick at the top and fill port on the bottom. That does not mean anything to me and I dont know if that is accurate but thought it might be helpful in diagnosing the shifting issue. Appreciate any insght you may have.

 

[Scott Danforth]

look at your lower shift cable. if sticky, I would replace it.

 

[stancalame]

Thanks Scott but not sure I follow. By sticky I assume you mean, does not move freely? How do I check that? Do I disconnect from the engine and actuate manually?

 

[HT32BSX115]

Boat has OMC 574AERGD with King Cobra Stern Drive. I've been told I have a cone clutch because my drive has the dipstick at the top and fill port on the bottom. That does not mean anything to me and I dont know if that is accurate but thought it might be helpful in diagnosing the shifting issue. Appreciate any insght you may have.

Howdy,

Yes, your shifting issue is very likely a "sticky" lower shift cable. (and it's the first place I would start)

It'll help if you locate and verify the correct eng/drive model number. The number you posted above is not a correct model number.

Did you mean OMC 574APERGD ? (1991)

If so, yes, it is indeed a (early, interim) OMC Cone-Clutch drive (btw, NOT compatible with and cannot be replaced by the later OMC/VP SX drive)

Parts are available (some right here on iBoats!) go to http://epc.brp.com/ to find part numbers and pictures
Your lower shift cable would be "Cable & O-Ring Assembly0987678"

You can find parts from a variety of sources..... do a Google search using the above text and you'll find it.

Before you try to change it though, I would suggest you obtain an OEM OMC service manual (NOT SELOC CLYMER ETC) that specifically covers your model 574APERGD The manuals are model specific.

Regards,


Rick

 

[stancalame]

Thanks Rick
I do indeed have the 574APERGD model and thanks for confirmation. After posting previous questions I have aquired the correct service manual and have been readinding alot of it and searching more on this forum and you tube. Please comment on the following.

How can I tell if the cable is indeed sticky? My thinking is that if I get someone to move the shifter then I should see the shift cable come in and out. Is there a better way to comfirm with out putting the outdrive back on? Plus, I see the shift cable is about $200 bucks. I just ordered $300 dollars in bellows and pivot pin bushings and grommets. I know that you have to "pay to play" however I want to insure that it really needs a cable. Is there a fool proof way to check the cable?

I read on this forum that the ESA is sometimes a culplrit preventing proper shifting. My thought was to put everything back together and test the ESA switches to insure that they are slowing the engine. My Tach shows around 700-800 at idle (not in gear) However I dont know if the tach is accurate. The manual says idle in gear should be 450 - 550 RPM in gear, so I'm wondering if ESA is working properly. If not could the high idle contribute my issue? I have alot swimming in my head now, I hate to get side tracked on carb adjustment. Maybe I'm grasping at straws. First time I've owned a boat so learning as I go.

Before I took my boat out the last time, I checked engine timing because it was backfiring coming out of the hole with WOT. I found the timing ~11 degrees BTDC so I slowed it downed to 8 degrees BTDC per the sticker on the flame arrestor cover. To be clear, the "as left" timing was showing 8 degrees above the 0 mark. It eliminated the back fire but after reading further in my manual last night, I learned that with 87 Octane fuel that timing shoould be set 3 degrees BTDC. So now I'm second guessing ( actually hoping) idle may have someing to do with the shifting issue.

 

[Lou C]

I only have experience with the dog clutch shifted Cobra but:
Start with an accurate tach and set idle to the spec
Cone clutch drives do not use an ESA; it's not needed
When checking the cable on the dog clutch model you:
Disconnect the cable both at the engine end and at the drive end. Then hook a fish scale to one end and pull; drag should be less than 2.5 lbs...

 

[stancalame]

Hmmm. The Manual I have has the instructions for checking he switches for the ESA. I wonder if I ha e the correct manual. It's accurate on all other issues that I've looked up. I asked the guy I bought it from and he said it was good for my model. I'll check and exploded parts list on the cables and see if it shows the switches.

 

[stancalame]

Here are some pics to help. From Crowley marine parts list for 574APERGD I assume the 2.5 lb drag test would work for this cable? The manual does not say anything about it. Here is picture of my manual. Although it does not mention my specific model it has 5.7 liter references which is what I have in my boat. I know I have GM 350 engine. I have been under assumption that this is correct manual. Can you advise? See additional out drive and pivot housing pics

 

[Lou C]

Looks like I stand corrected, I see that this model used a shift interrupter even though it is a cone clutch, interesting because Volvo does not use a shift interrupt with their cone clutch drives. Well when you depress that shift interrupt switch button it should drop the rpm from about 600 down to about 450, at least that's how it works on the dog clutch models. That looks like the right manual for what you have.

 

[Lou C]

The 2.5 lbs spec for the dog clutch models might not have been in the original manuals, but when they had shifting problems with them due to a supplier changing the spec on the cable, they released this in a service bulletin I believe, to make sure people would check the cable and replace it if it was getting stiff.

 

[stancalame]

Thanks Lou, So if I need to replace the cable, I now understand that adjustment is super critical to success. I have read about the two (or three?) tools required for adjustment. Two of them shown in the link here http://www.ebay.com/itm/OMC-Cobra-S...ash=item4aeb298187:g:a-cAAOSw8cNUTU0v&vxp=mtr

The tool for the bell crank would not work on my drive because the shift cable is routed on the port side of the pivot housing as you can see from my previous pics and it appears to be a totally different mechanism as you see from my pics. Attached duplicate pics of the out drive when I meant to attached one from the pivot housing. I have attached to this post.
​
This continues to confuses me and my only conclusion is that I would use the only the cable alignment tool only for insuring proper adjustment at the engine bracket. The other tool would be of no use to me. On my drive I don't see any way to adjust anything coming out of the pivot housing...?

This morning I read the famous "Stuarts" website on cobras and his description would lead me to believe I have dog clutch based on the description of the "hump" on the upper gear housing which I do not have. My drive is clearly labeled King Cobra. I continue to be perplexed but now I'm leaning toward replacing the cable, I just dont know what tools I need. I can do it the manual way with a straight edge and a measure it. The manual walks through this method.

If you or anyone can guide me to additional tools I'd need for cable alignment of my specific drive (cable in the port side of the drive) I would be grateful. I'm traveling back to take another look today and had intended to put the drive back on the boat.

I'd still like to test the ESA and engine idle angle of this issue. Can you tell me if it is safe to start the engine with the drive off to test ESA and switches. I realize I'd need to connect water to the engine. Is there risk of screwing something while running engine with drive off and no resistance from the drive being removed?

 

[bruceb58]

This morning I read the famous "Stuarts" website on cobras and his description would lead me to believe I have dog clutch based on the description of the "hump" on the upper gear housing which I do not have. My drive is clearly labeled King Cobra. I continue to be perplexed but now I'm leaning toward replacing the cable, I just dont know what tools I need. I can do it the manual way with a straight edge and a measure it. The manual walks through this method.

You have the cone clutch King Cobra....not the dog clutch.

Adjusting the cable is completely different.

An OEM manual is what you need. Try to find one of those.

 

[stancalame]

I have an OEM and have been told by multiple people that it is the correct manual even though it does not refer to my specific model number.

My manual includes test procedure for ESA. I'll follow the manual however I'm perplexed as to the function of BSA on a cone clutch Any comments on why it is required?

 

[stancalame]

Sorry, meant to say ESA. I'm working from phone.

 

[bruceb58]

That's an excellent question because Volvo cone clutch drives do not require it. They had so many issues with cone clutch cables failing, they didn't want to take a chance. Can you tell why OMC means Out of business Marine Company?

 

[HT32BSX115]

Looks like I stand corrected, I see that this model used a shift interrupter even though it is a cone clutch, interesting because Volvo does not use a shift interrupt with their cone clutch drives. Well when you depress that shift interrupt switch button it should drop the rpm from about 600 down to about 450, at least that's how it works on the dog clutch models. That looks like the right manual for what you have.

Well you're not all that "corrected" though. They did not use an ESA like the OP mentioned.

The EFI/Elec IGN Cone clutch models used a shift interrupt "switch" that connected to the ECM.

I suspect it could still be shifted out of gear with out it because when the (Unobtanium) ECM/EFI and/or elec IGN fails in these they seem to still work when replaced by a carburetor and regular ignition system with the interrupt disconnected.

That's an excellent question because Volvo cone clutch drives do not require it. They had so many issues with cone clutch cables failing, they didn't want to take a chance. Can you tell why OMC means Out of business Marine Company?

WHAAAT? They're out of business?

 

[Lou C]

Going back to your questions, for sure you have the cone clutch King Cobra and the problem is all the common knowledge we have, is probably irrelevant. So I'd read through the manual till you understand 100% how it works, because even finding someone who has worked on one of these, is like a needle in a haystack. You may become the Iboats expert on these! I wish I could help more but all my experience is with the dog clutch models (86-93)....

 

[stancalame]

Indeed! My plan is to get this running and divest. I spent 3500 for boat and trailer and I've probably spent another $1000 since then. Part of that was engine and not OMC parts.

Bruce
Any idea on how to test "stickiness" of lower shift cable? Do you think the 2.5 pound fishing scale method is appropriate? I'll adjust cable per manual and If I need new one I can except that, I would just like to know that it is needed like to know that A new one is needed before throwing parts at it.

Thanks for your continued support. I honestly don't mind tinkering and I want to do it properly but I'm getting frustrated at the thought of continuing to pour money into it. I like the idea of making something old work again as long as it's good quality

 

[stancalame]

Is it safe to run the engine with the outdrive removed as long as water is piped to the engine ? I'd like to double check the switches before putting drive back on

 

[Lou C]

As far as measuring drag, if someone can think of a better way than the fish scale by all means suggest it, I measured it that way and it shifts very well. I also used to use this to measure drag on wheel bearings with old cars that had drum brakes a looong time ago!
​And as long as you can supply water to the engine, you can run it with the drive off.

​Continuously pouring money into it is a fact of old boat life. You are in fresh water? In salt water, you are:
​replacing both manifolds and risers every 5-7 years or else--> $800-900 plus labor if you can't do it yourself
​using stainless steel disc brakes if you trailer a lot--> approx $600 per axle if installing everything new
​doing bottom paint and drive paint if you moor your boat like I do--> about 600 for a small boat like mine (I do the drive myself)

​If you want something you don't have to pour money into get a late model boat (ie 3-5 years old max) with a modern 4 stroke outboard. They need way less maintenance than sterndrives, weigh less and are safer.