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Homebuilt short tail mud motor

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  • #31
    Re: Homebuilt short tail mud motor

    Everything looks good but I would spring for a toothed belt & sprokets. They do not have to be very tight to be effective. I believe McMaster-Carr sells them.

    LK

    1997 Sea Ray Sundancer 250 5.7EFI / BIII

    Comment



    • #32
      Re: Homebuilt short tail mud motor

      Originally posted by Alwhite00 View Post
      Everything looks good but I would spring for a toothed belt & sprokets. They do not have to be very tight to be effective. I believe McMaster-Carr sells them.

      LK
      I had a look a their site, good stuff, but about as expensive as Grainger.
      By the time I bought those things and repaired the bent shaft and prop I
      could by one of those SPS Longtail kits, $475, that's including shipping.
      Me and my father talked about all this, we decided that I should chalk my first
      motor build up to experience and lessons learned.
      My first mistake was using a unhardened shaft, but it I had I wouldn't have been able to
      put a die on it. My box isn't wide enough to accommodate a chain or v belt.
      Of course on the McMaster-Carr site I found special chain tensioners, like these, I didn't
      know they existed.
      Click image for larger version

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ID:	167189Click image for larger version

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      I give all and any rights totally to McMaster-Carr, if these are copyrighted
      images I am using them only for reference.
      That second one could have worked for me, but the SPS kits are less maintenance.
      I love taking ordinary things and turning them into extraordinary works

      Comment



      • #33
        Re: Homebuilt short tail mud motor

        Originally posted by UGL View Post
        I had a look a their site, good stuff, but about as expensive as Grainger.
        By the time I bought those things and repaired the bent shaft and prop I
        could by one of those SPS Longtail kits, $475, that's including shipping.
        Me and my father talked about all this, we decided that I should chalk my first
        motor build up to experience and lessons learned.
        My first mistake was using a unhardened shaft, but it I had I wouldn't have been able to
        put a die on it. My box isn't wide enough to accommodate a chain or v belt.
        Of course on the McMaster-Carr site I found special chain tensioners, like these, I didn't
        know they existed.
        Click image for larger version

Name:	780444dc4ef7296b0eb206a692d20e65.png
Views:	1
Size:	7.3 KB
ID:	167189Click image for larger version

Name:	7c62d3bd007251281e90a136f9991b03.png
Views:	1
Size:	9.4 KB
ID:	167190
        I give all and any rights totally to McMaster-Carr, if these are copyrighted
        images I am using them only for reference.
        That second one could have worked for me, but the SPS kits are less maintenance.

        3/4 shaft - 3.820 Diam cogged sprocket for 1" belt - P/N 6495K47 - $67.00 Ea.

        48" cogged belt - 1" wide - P/N 6484K179 - $35.00 Ea.

        Does not seem to bad - Maybe worth looking into?

        I have no idea on the shaft diameter or belt length needed but just did a quick look in the McMaster book.

        LK

        1997 Sea Ray Sundancer 250 5.7EFI / BIII

        Comment



        • #34
          Re: Homebuilt short tail mud motor

          Just purchased this... Complete Longtail Mud Motor Kit Up to 7 HP Duck Boat | eBay
          I love taking ordinary things and turning them into extraordinary works

          Comment



          • #35
            Re: Homebuilt short tail mud motor

            For what its worth, put two v-belts on it. millions of snow throwers run in snow, sleet, and water without heavy belt tension and with over 10hp.
            1988 Cruisers Rogue 2420 - VP AQ271C / 290DP "Rock'n Along"
            http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=500145
            1970 Wooster Hellion 7' of cool mini boat with a Merc 9.8
            Recent Boats
            2002 SeaRay 190BR - MC 5.0 / Alpha I series II "Cheasheads in Paradise"
            1984 Avanti 170DLI - OMC 3.0 / OMC Stringer 400 "Ship Happens"

            The problems we face today can not be addressed at the same level of intelligence we were at when we created them - Albert Einstein Or with the same level of $ - Me

            Comment



            • #36
              Re: Homebuilt short tail mud motor

              I was under the impression that you did not want a long tail setup, That seems as if it would be a whole lot easier to build home made than the setup with the belts.

              LK

              1997 Sea Ray Sundancer 250 5.7EFI / BIII

              Comment



              • #37
                Re: Homebuilt short tail mud motor

                Originally posted by Alwhite00 View Post
                I was under the impression that you did not want a long tail setup, That seems as if it would be a whole lot easier to build home made than the setup with the belts.

                LK
                Indeed it would be easier to build, I've noticed a lot of folks use too much metal to support their shaft, sometimes no pipe or housing for the shaft at all and also pillow block bearings. I like the SPS longtail because they obviously use hardened pipe to support the shaft, possibly a DOM tube like pipe. A seamless rolled pipe, if they used a seamed pipe it would droop and not work very well.
                What I didn't want was a longtail with a lot of supports on it, they look bulky and ugly to me, that's why I bought a SPS kit, simplicity.
                My design was simple for a short tail, perhaps that was the problem. I look forward to taking pictures of the assembly and the finished product as well as video of it running. I should receive it this week, but in reality...early next week.
                I love taking ordinary things and turning them into extraordinary works

                Comment



                • #38
                  Re: Homebuilt short tail mud motor

                  If anyone wants to see this type of motor in operation, this is the best video I can find on YouTube, I take no credit for this video and it looks to be a SPS kit, don't quote me on that though.
                  Thai Longtail Mud Motor - YouTube

                  Oh and a bit of advice, most of you may want to mute the video before playing, it's progressive metal I think, it's not for everyone
                  BTW at minute 2:35 in the best part of the vid.
                  I love taking ordinary things and turning them into extraordinary works

                  Comment



                  • #39
                    Re: Homebuilt short tail mud motor

                    A longtail is easy to build. A prop runs about $150 for a stainless steel one, the drive shaft will be about $75 including getting a machinist to cut 3/4-10 threads and a keyway. The bushings, automatic grease cup, set screws, lock nut, nut, etc. for the shaft housing are about $100. The steel plate, 3/4 all thread, bolts, nuts, and 6' joint of DOM tubing will run about $150. Then about $325 for a maxtool.com electric start 16hp engine. He'd have about $650-$850 in a 16hp electric start longtail that will actually last a while. I personally think a 16hp longtail is bare minimum for a 14 foot boat, a couple of guys, and some fishing or duck hunting equipment. Anything less is really slow. I've made 3 longtail mud motors; I hate using them unless I absolutely must because they are loud, dangerous, and no fun to drive.
                    JMO,
                    JBJ
                    Not a certified mechanic but I have at least 2 shade trees in my yard and my wife always says I'm certifiable. So remember that when you follow my advice

                    Comment



                    • #40
                      Re: Homebuilt short tail mud motor

                      Originally posted by jbjennings View Post
                      A longtail is easy to build. A prop runs about $150 for a stainless steel one, the drive shaft will be about $75 including getting a machinist to cut 3/4-10 threads and a keyway. The bushings, automatic grease cup, set screws, lock nut, nut, etc. for the shaft housing are about $100. The steel plate, 3/4 all thread, bolts, nuts, and 6' joint of DOM tubing will run about $150. Then about $325 for a maxtool.com electric start 16hp engine. He'd have about $650-$850 in a 16hp electric start longtail that will actually last a while. I personally think a 16hp longtail is bare minimum for a 14 foot boat, a couple of guys, and some fishing or duck hunting equipment. Anything less is really slow. I've made 3 longtail mud motors; I hate using them unless I absolutely must because they are loud, dangerous, and no fun to drive.
                      JMO,
                      JBJ
                      I looked at those maxtool engines, they look like Honda clones, I don't do clones, Only Briggs, Kohler, Robin-Subaru and Honda.
                      Right now Ive got a 6hp Briggs Intek, I payed $250 for it, new, from Surplus Center, it was made in December 07', sat on the
                      shelf for 5 years and fired right up when I got, music. You'll pay $119 for one horse more than mine at Harbor freight but won't get the proven reliability, reputation, and quality that you will if you'll go with the four brands I mentioned.
                      You get what you pay for in the world of engines. Harbor Freight even had a 12 month warranty on those predator models. What!?! Are their engines that crappy? Yes, assume all of them are crap, even though some folks get "good one's" or so they claim, and a lot of folks get lemons. Here's some of the Honda clones; Lifan, Greyhound, Zongshen, Predator, Power Pro, Titan, Ducar, Haolang, and the list is longer than that. If any of these were clones like Mercury-Mariner or Johnson-Evinrude then I'd see that is ok, but these manufacturers, all Chinese BTW, make them as close to possible like Honda's looks without infringing on copyrights, but also using inferior methods of manufacture and quality control<---if there is any. I say all this to say, choose American and Japanese made products.
                      I think I've made my point
                      I love taking ordinary things and turning them into extraordinary works

                      Comment



                      • #41
                        Re: Homebuilt short tail mud motor

                        I wanted to add a thought I had a moment ago, for the average price of a stainless steel prop of $150, I could buy about 8 of the aluminum ones. The kit comes with two, 6.25” and 6.50” props and I already have one I bought a while ago a 7". So I can play around with it and see which size gives me the best performance.
                        I love taking ordinary things and turning them into extraordinary works

                        Comment



                        • #42
                          Re: Homebuilt short tail mud motor

                          Just an FYI. The Briggs And Stratton Intek you have, was made at their manufacturing plant in china, and their 6.5hp Vanguard, is actually a Honda clone made in china and they just use Briggs style ignition coils . All other Vanguards are actually made in Japan by Daihatsu and are high quality. Kohler also has a Command ( CH-270 ) which is a clone, and their Courage models are generally made in china, Commands are made in the USA still IIRC. If you want a quality lower hp horizontal shaft engine these days that isn't a clone, it's really either Honda GX series or Robin Subaru, or a 5-6 hp Vanguard, The only quality small Briggs. The Inteks run fine, just as the clones will, they just are a lesser overseas production.
                          1961 Custom Craft Sea Ray- 1964 Mercury 650. In family since new.

                          Comment



                          • #43
                            Re: Homebuilt short tail mud motor

                            I see what your saying and thanks for that information, I always like to learn. I like my engine but I would have preferred to buy a Vanguard, but if that engine ever craters I will get one. My 18hp Poulan riding mower engine is a Intek, that thing was bought new in 06', that thing is great! It has withstood years of mowing very high grass, brush, brambles piles, gnarled masses of vines, and wet grass without the slightest hint of struggling to keep up. It has never died under load, never had a carb job, just routine maintenance per the manufacturers recommendations. That's one of the reasons why I love Briggs & Stratton!
                            Growing up my dad owned several Briggs, a Murray with a L-head, it was given to me, I ran that thing into the ground out in the woods till it was wore slap out, after that mower my dad bought a Craftsman with a OHV I/C, broke 2 intake push rods (aluminum) but thats all, then he got the Poulan Pro (he gave that to me and I it have now), then the John Deere LA135, a wonderful mower! (22.5 hp twin, mean sounding) All of those I used to mow his lawn over the years and the Poulan on mine and his, all of those engines fared well (that was my point) The twin in the Deere makes me want to have one for a mud motor!
                            I love taking ordinary things and turning them into extraordinary works

                            Comment



                            • #44
                              Re: Homebuilt short tail mud motor

                              BTW a lot of those cheap clones have higher cc's for the hp they produce, doesn't that mean they are less fuel efficient?
                              I love taking ordinary things and turning them into extraordinary works

                              Comment



                              • #45
                                Re: Homebuilt short tail mud motor

                                The common as dirt Honda GX200 is 196cc rated at 5.5-6.5hp depending on actual model/ intended use. Most are just stamped GX 200. Clones started appearing around 2003 as the Int patents ran out on the GX series.. Honda was getting run out of their own market with clones of their engines that were basic copies. even going as far as calling them "Chonda" motors, so they sued and won in 2008. Now the cloners have to make their engines look a little different and also, they can't be the same on the inside. Most cloners after 2008 increased the displacement to either 208cc ( LCT/Powerhorse ) or 212cc ( Predator ), but they also dropped the HP rating after 2008.. 212cc really has about 7.25hp and the 208cc has right around 7hp, so while they are not as efficient, they are right around 1/2hp more.

                                Also, you may want to keep a close eye on the air filter to the John deere. Those engines have a known air filter issue where it does not seal, and it will eventually destroy the rings/ bore, and JD/ Briggs will look the other way.. I have an old JD LX188 with the liquid cooled 17.5hp Kawasaki twin, probably the smoothest mower I'v ever run.. Too bad Kawasaki engines cost so much, a 10-16hp horizontal twin on a mud motor would probably be great.
                                1961 Custom Craft Sea Ray- 1964 Mercury 650. In family since new.

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