Honda vs. Evinrude

marquette

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Apr 18, 2006
Messages
372
Re: Honda vs. Evinrude

since you are considering 2 quality brands i think your choice should be based on dealership, quality of repair dept and price. price meaning on the boat installed and ready to go. not $1000 less for the motor and then a $1500 rigging fee. the motors may perform differantly from each other but both are going to be good. i own a honda but i wouldn't pay more for it than and etec if i was in the market for a new motor but i wouldn't pay more for an etec knowing how good the honda has been. you are in a unigue position in that you are looking to buy a motor and are not being pushed into one brand or another because that is what the boat manufacturer has packaged on their boat. and that you can afford to be looking at premium motors not having to make your choice solely on what is the cheapest you can buy. in today's recreational ecconomy you are a dealers dream customer so you should be able to get a lot for your buck.
 

Eshaw150

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Nov 30, 2008
Messages
295
Re: Honda vs. Evinrude

I have a 20 foot traveler cc and it has a 150 johnson vro
it pushes it at 30-40knots at half throttle and its a good size boat

you need to look at the dealer ships and service centers in your area and see you has had the best customer service because either way you go something is bound to break so you need to do some good reasearch i like my 2 stroke because it pushes it quick and really its not that loud but is still pretty load

one of the major quilitys of a 4 stroke is that they are quiter and no miking of oil

its your own personal preferance so choose wisely
 

jonesg

Admiral
Joined
Feb 22, 2008
Messages
7,174
Re: Honda vs. Evinrude

Buy American.

On the Etec cylinders, not sure if this is the same but i used to run small racing engine, single cylinder. They required no break-in, would hit 22K rpm on the initial run, 26K+ after 30 minutes.
The trick was ABC technology, hi-silicon Alum pistons running in hard Chromed Brass sleeves.

If the cylinder starts to overheat from friction the sleeve expands more than the piston, lowering compression and keeping rpm below seize state.

I'm surprised this technology never made it to outboards long before.

anyways....
I would like to see how many honda 4 bangers are still around 20 yrs from now. I know the American outboard is time tested.
 

marquette

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Apr 18, 2006
Messages
372
Re: Honda vs. Evinrude

one observation about etecs. i was in texas over the holidays doing some flats fishing. i stopped by 3 boat deales while i was there killing some time. i would say 90% of the new flats and most of the bay boats were powered with etecs. flats fishing is run and gun fishing. you are running either WOT or nothing. so etecs must be good WOT performers or they wouldn't be the motor of choice. and at the price of the boats i don't think a few dollars one way or the other has anything to do with motor choice. or maybe they are easier to maintain in salt water?
 

Maineman

Cadet
Joined
Oct 17, 2008
Messages
12
Re: Honda vs. Evinrude

Thanks everyone. I really appreciate the advice. It feels like such a big investment that I want to do it right the first time. I'm going to go visit several dealerships this weekend and try to get a feeling for each. Thanks again.
 
Joined
Nov 18, 2008
Messages
19
Re: Honda vs. Evinrude

I like the Etecs better less service Change the plugs,water seperator, and impeller every three years or 300 hours and keep gas/fuel mixed. ETECS are almost as quiet as a 4 banger and I really like bombardier.

Me,my grandpa, and my stepdad have three boats in total one has a brandnew 08 4-stroke 60 horse merc bigfoot which I do like quiet and pushes our 24 foot bently to around 18 mph at WOT. The other two one is a 84 evinrude 115 runs great pushes the 17'6" cheetah plenty fast for me the last a 73 25hp johnson runs great.

I would go for the ETEC if it were my choice, Honda's are good motors tho.
 

sschefer

Rear Admiral
Joined
Nov 13, 2008
Messages
4,530
Re: Honda vs. Evinrude

If it's two stroke vs. 4 stroke and the question is power then the two stroke should always win since the two stroke produces power on every other revolution where the 4 stroke only produces power on every 4th revolution. That explains why you might go faster at any given RPM with a two stroke.

In the recent past the 4 strokes were much heavier than any two strokes but recently that seems to have changed. There isn't a huge difference now that Manufacturers are building two strokes that meet minimal EPA standards.

Politics aside, we are currently faced with the possibility that many outboard motors will not be able to meet new state controlled emmission standards. The motors that will most likely be able to meet the standards will be those that are more recent engineering marvels like the Etec two stroke and new 4 strokes.

As for which motor lasts longer, that's a toss up because the variables are too highly dependent upon conciencous owners. I would tend to think that a resonably maintained 4 stroke would outlast a two stroke simply because they lubricate themselves so well. A two stroke relies on fuel to carry it's lubricant to crucial points where a 4 stroke has an independent oil pump or pickup that ensures that lubrication is always available, (provided you put oil in it).

Longevity is not always a consumer related problem as most of us are aware. There are lemons in the apple box. Honda's were known to have small water inlets that clogged easily and cause cracked blocks when they overheated, (I still can't figure out why the operators didn't know the motor was overheating). This was not a big problem for Honda because the only ones affected were those that ran in algae infested lakes or drug them through the mud.

In summary, If it's a question over a Honda or an Etec, I'd be happy with either but a new Etec would really make me smile. If it's four stroke vs. two stroke, I think I'd have to go with 4 stroke if I was buying new. Only because of the very real possibility of totally insane new emmission standards. I think the 4 strokes will live and the two strokes will get burried unless they are ready to ramp up to Etec standards, (which will probably have to improve also).

That's my two cents.. don't mean squat but it felt good..
 

Eshaw150

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Nov 30, 2008
Messages
295
Re: Honda vs. Evinrude

If it's two stroke vs. 4 stroke and the question is power then the two stroke should always win since the two stroke produces power on every other revolution where the 4 stroke only produces power on every 4th revolution. That explains why you might go faster at any given RPM with a two stroke.


As for which motor lasts longer, that's a toss up because the variables are too highly dependent upon conciencous owners. I would tend to think that a resonably maintained 4 stroke would outlast a two stroke simply because they lubricate themselves so well. A two stroke relies on fuel to carry it's lubricant to crucial points where a 4 stroke has an independent oil pump or pickup that ensures that lubrication is always available, (provided you put oil in it).







I complety agree with this this is what i have been trying to explain
 

Silvertip

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Sep 22, 2003
Messages
28,758
Re: Honda vs. Evinrude

Twice in this thread this statement was used: -- the two stroke produces power on every other revolution where the 4 stroke only produces power on every 4th revolution. -- which is very wrong.

Two strokes produce power on EVERY revolution (which consists of two strokes -- one up and one down). A four stroke produces power on EVERY OTHER revolution (which consists of four strokes -- two up and two down). Intake (down stroke), compression (up stroke), power (down stroke) and exhaust (up stroke). Or for those of you who like a little humor -- suck, squeeze, bang and blow!

To clarify this, every cylinder on a two stroke motor fires every revolution. Every cylinder on a four stroke engine fires every second revolution.

As for top speed, if both engine have the same gearing, same prop, same boat, and both engines are capable of reving the same at WOT the speed will be the same. Two strokes typically have an advantage because as I pointed out earlier, they can twist props with a little more pitch and in some cases 4-strokes need to be geared lower to provide better hole shot.
 

jay_merrill

Vice Admiral
Joined
Dec 5, 2007
Messages
5,653
Re: Honda vs. Evinrude

Thanks for the clarification, ST. I noticed thae mistake as well, but chose not to mention it. I find myself sometimes holding back, because I don't want to sound like a person who constantly has to disagree. Since this is a forum that is basically educational in nature, however, I think that its important to point out such misconceptions.
 

sschefer

Rear Admiral
Joined
Nov 13, 2008
Messages
4,530
Re: Honda vs. Evinrude

I won't quote all Silvertips marvelous explanation but I will admit he is correct. My bad.. I must have had RPM's on my mind. Probably why I always manage to drop a distributor in 180 out the first time.. LOL.

Irregardles
 

Silvertip

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Sep 22, 2003
Messages
28,758
Re: Honda vs. Evinrude

I let it go the first time because I did feel it was indeed an "oops". When it appeared the second time, I felt corrective action was necessary. I certainly don't mean to be confrontational when I point out errors. But errors tend to be repeated and when repeated long enough they tend to become accepted as fact and can affect how long some of these threads become.
 

sschefer

Rear Admiral
Joined
Nov 13, 2008
Messages
4,530
Re: Honda vs. Evinrude

I let it go the first time because I did feel it was indeed an "oops". When it appeared the second time, I felt corrective action was necessary. I certainly don't mean to be confrontational when I point out errors. But errors tend to be repeated and when repeated long enough they tend to become accepted as fact and can affect how long some of these threads become.
Absolutely agree and thank you, I for one appreciate your dillegence!
 

triumphrick

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Jun 26, 2008
Messages
1,737
Re: Honda vs. Evinrude

Buy American.I would like to see how many honda 4 bangers are still around 20 yrs from now. I know the American outboard is time tested.

http://www.honda-marine.com/Why/WhyChoose.aspx

Oh yeah...how about 40 years from now??

Do you really believe what you're saying about these outboards?? Yeah, I know, lets stand behind our American workers, factories, homes, families, parents, children............

Or lets just buy something that doesn't have planned obsolescense engineered into it. That's why Toyotas made in America by Americans are the top selling vehicle for the past several years. They are designed better than domestic vehicles. And guess what? So are the Japaneese outboards.

Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki, Tohatsu are some of the best outboards being made.

Look at a JD Powers chart for outboards. Or automobiles. This is not a knock against the American worker. Somehow, the Japaneese have figured out how to design and engineer something better than we have.

Check out what the US COAST GUARD uses on their small boats. Those Honda motors are being run 8-10,000 hours. No major rebuilds.

I expect to hear from all the Merc/'Rude/Johnson/Mariner/Force/Chrysler fans......so be it.
 

jay_merrill

Vice Admiral
Joined
Dec 5, 2007
Messages
5,653
Re: Honda vs. Evinrude

You're safe on ERude & Johnson. While they are still "American," they aren't built in the U.S. any more. Both are owned by Bombardier, which is a Canadian company.

One thing I feel compelled to say, however, is that I think the thing about Japanese cars being much better than U.S. built cars, is not enirely accurate. They a great cars, no doubt, but just what constitutes being "better built?"

I have a nine year old Chevy Astro with about 170,000 miles on it. Other than a burned out "multi-function" switch (controls emergency flashers and brake lights), I've had no problems with the car. The only maintenance that I've done to it has been the stuff that is entirely expected, such as brakes, tires, front end parts, etc.

I've owned Japanese cars (Isuzu & Mazda) and can't say that they're really all that amazing. Not only that, but those who like driving Ford Rangers and Explorers are driving vehicles that are mostly Mazda parts anyway.

My next car will most likely be a GM, and that isn't out of some "mom & apple pie, pry the gun out of my dead hands" loyalty to U.S. made products. It is simply because any car that costs less than the competition on purchase price and maintenance, yet can be expected to give me 200,000+ miles of reliable service, is the one I want to own.
 

james williams

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jul 22, 2006
Messages
105
Re: Honda vs. Evinrude

Jap vehicles sold more than American vehicles don`t mean they are BETTER.I see idiots driving both.Just more idiots driving jap.I remember Pearl Harbor.
 

jevery

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jun 16, 2006
Messages
538
Re: Honda vs. Evinrude

They a great cars, no doubt, but just what constitutes being "better built?"

Therein lies the problem. It?s like determining performance of an outboard ? We all have somewhat differing criteria and priorities. I?d say some valid measures of ?better built? could be, Quality, (as measured by absence of problems), Dependability, and Customer Retention.

JD Power & Associates
2008 Initial Quality Study

Of the Top Ten,
#2 Infinity, #3 Lexus, #5 Toyota, #7 Honda
#6 Mercury, #8 Ford
Plus, Porsche, Mercedes, Jaguar, and Audi
http://www.jdpower.com/autos/rating...rand/sortcolumn-1/ascending/page-#page-anchor

2008 Vehicle Dependability Study

#1 Lexus, #4 Toyota, #5 Acura, #9 Honda
#2 Mercury, #3 Cadillac, #6 Buick, #8 Lincoln
Plus BMW, Jaguar
http://www.jdpower.com/autos/rating...rand/sortcolumn-1/ascending/page-#page-anchor

New-Vehicle Buyer Retention

#1 Honda, #2 Toyota, #3 Lexus
http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pdf/2008265.pdf

So, American car dependability isn?t bad, but the domestic brands lag in initial quality, and probably most importantly in retaining their customers.

Similar to what Toyota and Honda have done in the US automotive market, Yamaha, Honda, and Suzuki have done in the outboard market ? Introduced a better product and slowly, but surely sucked up large amounts of market share and gained many loyal customers.

And james williams, while I agree that Pearl Harbor was a despicable and horrific act, it was 68 years ago. We won the war, we thoroughly punished the civilian Japanese population with atomic and incendiary bombs, and they have been pretty fair allies and hosts to our bases for over 60 years now. I?d call it even, though I understand if you don?t. (Interesting bio BTW)
 
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