Re-powering V142

[JoshOnt]

I am looking to re-power a Thundercraft V142 that I have now figured out says 50 hp max (looked like 150 hp since someone decided to use a screwdriver to create a 1 and with the plate in bad condition took a bit or research to figure it out). Now my issue is I can find a few 40's no 50's but I have found a couple 70's that would fit the bill other than being over. I am thinking the weight difference (about 30-50 lbs) is not too big and maybe a 70 would work if I just didn't go WOT. As I said can't find any 50's that are in either the price range or new enough to have trim and tilt. Will I be safe with a 60 or a 70? I figure so since I am seeing that a 50 hp is not really possible to find that meets my requirements.

 

[southkogs]

An overpowering discussion is going to wind up giving you two answers:

Yes: theoretically an experienced boater could over power a hull and have a reasonably safe boat to operate.

Maybe: your local laws will dictate if you can legally over power your boat.​

The rest of it comes down to if you're experienced enough to know what to expect that hull to do when over powered, how stable the hull will actually be when running over powered and how sound the hull is to handle the additional HP. And none of us really know those answers.

 

[Frank Acampora]

Official forum guidelines enforced by moderators are that members should not recommend overpowering a boat, or any other action that may be illegal.

Can you put the 70 on your hull? Maybe. Safely? Maybe. Not seeing the hull. it is impossible to say. As far as not running the 70 full throttle--Who are you kidding? Outboards only have two speeds On and Off. Eventually you will use all the power. I have a nice little 14 footer modified to hold a 140. The only time that boat ever sees partial throttle is in the no wake zone.

Remember that the rules do appear a bit arbitrary. If that boat was an inboard engine there would be no limit on horsepower--it only applies to outboards.

The ultimate decision is yours but why not reduce drama in your life and look for a 50? In an engine of the 50 HP size, tilt/trim is very nice, but not really a necessity. Perhaps you should re-think your parameters. If you can not find a Merc or OMC, Look for a Force. They are rarer than hen's teeth, but some 50s did come with tilt/trim. They also made a kit to convert a 50 to TNT. I know, I have one sitting in my garage.

 

[jbcurt00]

I don't know where Frank boats, but in WV, his vessel 14ft'r w/ a 140 isn't legal. It's not specified what the penalty is, or when overpowering regs would be enforced, but here's the wording from the DNR site:

Overpowering No vessel may be operated beyond its safe powering capacity.
The maximum horsepower capacity marked on a vessel's maximum capacities plate must not be exceeded.
If a vessel does not have a U.S. Coast Guard Maximum Capacities plate provided by the manufacturer, the owner must demonstrate that his or her vessel conforms to the U. S. Coast Guard safe powering requirements.

I find many states have similar language, that prohibits overpowering, but doesn't specify how it's monitored or enforced.

 

[bonz_d]

Personally I wouldn't do it. That flat bottom modified V would be horrific with a 70hp on it. Also that added 50lbs on the stern is going to make it sit really low in the back and you could see a swamped boat upon deceleration.

From experience I will tell you that you will see very little difference between a 40hp and a 50hp on that boat. I run a 16' Alumacraft that is rated for 75hp and am running an older 60hp 2 cylinder Johnson on it. I know what this boat does and how it performs and honestly a 75hp on this boat would still be overpowered even though it is rated for it.

If you can find a early to mid 90's Johnson 40hp I think that would be the best fit. They do come with power tilt also.

 

[JoshOnt]

An overpowering discussion is going to wind up giving you two answers:

Yes: theoretically an experienced boater could over power a hull and have a reasonably safe boat to operate.

Maybe: your local laws will dictate if you can legally over power your boat.​

The rest of it comes down to if you're experienced enough to know what to expect that hull to do when over powered, how stable the hull will actually be when running over powered and how sound the hull is to handle the additional HP. And none of us really know those answers.

My current boat is over powered, bought it with a 50 hp rated for 27.5 hp So I have a good idea of what happens when you push the throttle a bit too far.

 

[JoshOnt]

Personally I wouldn't do it. That flat bottom modified V would be horrific with a 70hp on it. Also that added 50lbs on the stern is going to make it sit really low in the back and you could see a swamped boat upon deceleration.

From experience I will tell you that you will see very little difference between a 40hp and a 50hp on that boat. I run a 16' Alumacraft that is rated for 75hp and am running an older 60hp 2 cylinder Johnson on it. I know what this boat does and how it performs and honestly a 75hp on this boat would still be overpowered even though it is rated for it.

If you can find a early to mid 90's Johnson 40hp I think that would be the best fit. They do come with power tilt also.

I got told that by a family member but was thinking I rather go on the high side since I would like to tube and maybe ski with the boat so the extra power would be really nice and would allow me to take 2 friends out who are not so small.

 

[JoshOnt]

Official forum guidelines enforced by moderators are that members should not recommend overpowering a boat, or any other action that may be illegal.

Can you put the 70 on your hull? Maybe. Safely? Maybe. Not seeing the hull. it is impossible to say. As far as not running the 70 full throttle--Who are you kidding? Outboards only have two speeds On and Off. Eventually you will use all the power. I have a nice little 14 footer modified to hold a 140. The only time that boat ever sees partial throttle is in the no wake zone.

Remember that the rules do appear a bit arbitrary. If that boat was an inboard engine there would be no limit on horsepower--it only applies to outboards.

The ultimate decision is yours but why not reduce drama in your life and look for a 50? In an engine of the 50 HP size, tilt/trim is very nice, but not really a necessity. Perhaps you should re-think your parameters. If you can not find a Merc or OMC, Look for a Force. They are rarer than hen's teeth, but some 50s did come with tilt/trim. They also made a kit to convert a 50 to TNT. I know, I have one sitting in my garage.

As mentioned I can not find a decent 50 hp for what I want (trim and tilt is something I really would like). So getting a 50 is not likely so I am thinking a 70 would fit the bill just fine and you are right, outboard have 2 speeds haha I tend to enjoy my speed but have also seen what can happen when you go too fast for a hull.

 

[bonz_d]

I got told that by a family member but was thinking I rather go on the high side since I would like to tube and maybe ski with the boat so the extra power would be really nice and would allow me to take 2 friends out who are not so small.

If you want to ski and pull tubes then I think you are looking at the wrong boat. To me putting a 3 cylinder 60 - 70hp on that boat is not only foolish but is extremely dangerous, not just for you but for anyone else you take on it. Do as you wish, it's your boat and your liability.

 

[jbcurt00]

Josh
If you want to do what you want to do, why ask a public forum to comment then disagree and/or disregard the offered advice, repeatedly?

So you operate 1 overpowered boat. Is it this V142 and a 70hp outboard? No.

Same style hull? Not likely

Value in comparing the 2? None.

EDIT: And although Frank disagrees, which he is welcome to do

Official forum guidelines enforced by moderators are that members should not recommend overpowering a boat, or any other action that may be illegal.

Can you put the 70 on your hull? Maybe. Safely? Maybe. Not seeing the hull. it is impossible to say. As far as not running the 70 full throttle--Who are you kidding? Outboards only have two speeds On and Off. Eventually you will use all the power. I have a nice little 14 footer modified to hold a 140. The only time that boat ever sees partial throttle is in the no wake zone.

Most here prefer not to recommend possibly reckless actions w regards to boats and boat safety.

EDIT2: It should be noted that Frank does mention it's impossible to say whether a 70hp motor could safely be run on the back of the V142. I do not think Frank was suggesting Josh do anything reckless. Although he does share what he HAS done successfully, I don't think he recommends anyone else attempt overpowering.

Is the overpowered other boat you own, the one you intended to help a friend of yours, who has diminished capacity, learn safe boating? That doesn't seem like sound thinking at all.

Boat and boat restore safely

Best of luck w your endeavors

 

[JoshOnt]

If you want to ski and pull tubes then I think you are looking at the wrong boat. To me putting a 3 cylinder 60 - 70hp on that boat is not only foolish but is extremely dangerous, not just for you but for anyone else you take on it. Do as you wish, it's your boat and your liability.

I get it is more dangerous I just wanted to know if it was too dangerous to try or not. And by most people's opinion it seems to be guess I'll wait around for a 50 to show up on the market. Also if the option of getting a newer/bigger boat was there I gladly would but that is sadly not in the cards.

 

[bonz_d]

Josh I understand your frustration about finding an appropriate engine as I am in the same position. I have been looking for a 25hp - 35hp short shaft for almost 3 months. When I say looking I mean the whole state of Wisconsin, most of Illinois, and parts of Indiana, Iowa and Minn. there just isn't one around.

I would feel much more comfortable if you were talking about putting a 55 or 60hp Johnson 2 cylinder on this but there really is a huge difference by going to a 3 or 4 cylinder engine. Not only in weight but also in torque.

 

[Frank Acampora]

Don't put words in my mouth. I wrote that he should avoid drama and look for a suitable 50. The sentence about my overpowered hull was simply to illustrate that when people have power, they use it. AND, it is a fact that any size inboard hull has no horsepower restrictions.

 

[southkogs]

I don't think JB was going at you Frank. I think he was actually trying to do what I was above in my post - accommodate the fact that you seem to spice up your hulls in a pretty cool way and make some real screamers that work. You've got some cool stuff going, and I don't think any of us can deny that (not to mention your knowledge of outboards).

None of us has clue one what Josh knows about hulls and boats. I've seen bass boats with their rated power on back that I think are dangerous to operate, and I've seen people hurt on 'em. Most of this comes down to the points I made above:

What's legal in Ontario, and what Josh's skills and knowledge are with boats. And none of us really know.

BTW - Josh: I learned to ski behind a 14' with a 35HP. I think it would have struggled with a tube or a wakeboard, but skis and kneeboard did okay. You can do the fun stuff with a 50HP.

 

[fishin98]

Merc/Mariner offered a nice 40hp 4cyl starting in the early 90's, They also offered a 50hp 3cyl. My brother has one on his 16ft Sylvan Backtroller...it's a screamer, also loves fuel. I had the 40 4cyl with tilt and trim on my 15ft Sylvan Sea Monster performed very well with 2 people on board and was very reliable. Keep looking they are out there. Become a dealer rat checking them out for a good used motor. Please do not put a motor that over rated for your boat...should you have a accident/incident with the boat you will be found guilty of negligence with a possible lawsuit to follow.

 

[JoshOnt]

Josh I understand your frustration about finding an appropriate engine as I am in the same position. I have been looking for a 25hp - 35hp short shaft for almost 3 months. When I say looking I mean the whole state of Wisconsin, most of Illinois, and parts of Indiana, Iowa and Minn. there just isn't one around.

I would feel much more comfortable if you were talking about putting a 55 or 60hp Johnson 2 cylinder on this but there really is a huge difference by going to a 3 or 4 cylinder engine. Not only in weight but also in torque.

I understand you, I have been looking for about 3 weeks now and had little luck so no where close to as long as you but IMO too long. Also why would the cylinder count matter? Shouldn't weight dictate it? Reason I ask is because my current 50 (1977) is a inline 4. It weights about 175 lbs and a 70 from the same year is only 190 lbs. Though as you look thru the years you notice a 20-50 lb difference which is really not that much. Which is what lead me to think about using a 70 hp instead of a 50 hp. I also thought about 60 hp ones but could only find lower units to them.

 

[JoshOnt]

I don't think JB was going at you Frank. I think he was actually trying to do what I was above in my post - accommodate the fact that you seem to spice up your hulls in a pretty cool way and make some real screamers that work. You've got some cool stuff going, and I don't think any of us can deny that (not to mention your knowledge of outboards).

None of us has clue one what Josh knows about hulls and boats. I've seen bass boats with their rated power on back that I think are dangerous to operate, and I've seen people hurt on 'em. Most of this comes down to the points I made above:

What's legal in Ontario, and what Josh's skills and knowledge are with boats. And none of us really know.

BTW - Josh: I learned to ski behind a 14' with a 35HP. I think it would have struggled with a tube or a wakeboard, but skis and kneeboard did okay. You can do the fun stuff with a 50HP.

I have heard that a fair bit that you can ski with not much HP but I have heard tubing requires a bit more which is what makes me think a 40 hp would not work since pretty much everyone but me tubes and I ski. Sadly if I want another driver I need to make sure I can tube.

 

[jbcurt00]

Frank, check your PM's

I didn't complete that thought in my post. I know Frank runs a 14ft'r w a significantly overpower 140hp motor. And doesn't mind sharing that he does. To the best of my knowledge, he has never suggested that someone else do anything reckless. That was supposed to be 2 separate statements.

I have edited my post to be more accurate of what I intended.