4.3L - what were the first years TBI and MPI fuel injection was available?

[smassey22180]

Boat shopping now and sellers are really lousy about mentioning what engine is in their boat. I would prefer fuel injection and just want to know what years it was offered in both the TBI and then the MPI form.


thanks

 

[Fun Times]

The TBI/EFI V6 started in 1996. The TBI was actually called the "296 Magnum" EFI rated at 205 H.P and then in 1998 the name became 4.3L EFI and re-rated to 210 H.P. They were all the Gen + (GM vortec).

1997 was the start of the cool fuel system on all small (V 6 & 8) blocks. All 1997+ cool fuel models also use a serpentine belt.

2002 the 4.3L EFI became MPI at 220 H.P.

http://www.mercruiserparts.com/selec...asp?type_id=V6

Keep in mind that it is possible that you may run across a late 1995 boat with a early 1996 EFI V6 engine model.

 

[thumpar]

In the early years the EFI was not a common thing. They still made carb engines engines even after MPI came around so just the year won't tell you what fuel system it has.

 

[JustJason]

When shopping around one thing to keep in mind is the EFI stuff really isn't supported any more through Mercury. So if you have it a while and you end up with a problem and need a new TBI unit, or a MEFI 3 (or older) ECM your going to be up a creek and hunting ebay and scrapyards for parts. So in that respect, its best to stick with a newer MPI engine, those are still supported.

 

[smassey22180]

This was just what I needed thanks.

 

[Lou C]

Either get a late model that is still supported or better yet get a boat with a Carb, these you can always either re-build, or replace. And many carb boats have simple
mechanical fuel pumps not the factory Merc or Volvo pumps that go for an absurd $700. Yes you read that right. I have an old boat with a points n condenser igntion and a Quadrajet and even if I repower it, that's how its going to stay. Much easier, cheaper and faster on the repair end. No $700 pumps or $500 NLA (no longer available) engine control units. No thanks Merc and Volvo.

 

[thumpar]

Either get a late model that is still supported or better yet get a boat with a Carb, these you can always either re-build, or replace. And many carb boats have simple
mechanical fuel pumps not the factory Merc or Volvo pumps that go for an absurd $700. Yes you read that right. I have an old boat with a points n condenser igntion and a Quadrajet and even if I repower it, that's how its going to stay. Much easier, cheaper and faster on the repair end. No $700 pumps or $500 NLA (no longer available) engine control units. No thanks Merc and Volvo.

That is nothing. I have the VST. It is around $1700+ to replace. I have a shop about an hour away that still carries parts for them though. I rebuild it this spring. The EFI is nice though. No setting the choke or any "tricks" to start the engine. Just crank it and go. Nothing wrong with a carb but I prefer the EFI after owning both.

 

[smassey22180]

I guess I want EFI because of the carb I had on my old 3.0L. Is the 4.3 carb better with regards to starting and idling? The boat we get will go to Tahoe so EFI would run better at altitude. In the end I will probably end up with a 4.3 with a carb. Hopefully a 190 hp 4 barrel version. Does anyone know the first year of the Vortec heads?

thanks

 

[thumpar]

I guess I want EFI because of the carb I had on my old 3.0L. Is the 4.3 carb better with regards to starting and idling? The boat we get will go to Tahoe so EFI would run better at altitude. In the end I will probably end up with a 4.3 with a carb. Hopefully a 190 hp 4 barrel version. Does anyone know the first year of the Vortec heads?

thanks

1996 but check because sometimes early engine are used in a newer boat.

 

[Lou C]

Well I learned how to drive in '71-'72 so we were all familiar with carb engines and their 'tricks'...
I have a Rochester 4bbl on my '88 and for the most part it starts well. The one issue I have had, is that I can't set the choke as rich as I'd like because these engines run so cool relative to the automotive versions that the choke will take too long to open if you set it that way. So I set it so it barely closes to make sure it opens when the engine warms up. An electric choke conversion is the solution to this issue in some cases. Anything is better than an EFI system that you can't get parts for, or you can get them but they cost a fortune. If you can start a lawnmower or a weedwacker you should have no problem with a boat with a carb. In fact, I think you'd actually have less trouble with an old fashioned manual choke! We have that on our little Suzuki DF 2.5 outboard and I was able to teach my son to start it in about 1/2 hr......

 

[thumpar]

There is nothing wrong with a well working carb the EFI system is always easy to start and smooth running. They rarely completely fail and other than a sensor here or there there is nothing on the system to maintain. I like convenience. Even my walk behind lawn mower has electric start.

 

[Tail_Gunner]

When shopping around one thing to keep in mind is the EFI stuff really isn't supported any more through Mercury. So if you have it a while and you end up with a problem and need a new TBI unit, or a MEFI 3 (or older) ECM your going to be up a creek and hunting ebay and scrapyards for parts. So in that respect, its best to stick with a newer MPI engine, those are still supported.

Jason makes a very overlooked point here. The older mefi systems have been left in the dark so to speak.. If you have one as I do you will find yourself cross referencing to automotive part's from the 80's to maintain the system..I have purchased a whole new set of replacement parts due to just that...The one issue that remains is the fuel system I do not know if you can bolt on a carb that is compatible with the fuel cell. Other than that the cost of carberation is extremely more cost effective and the mileage..performance is the same.

 

[achris]

.... I have an old boat with a points n condenser igntion and a Quadrajet and even if I repower it, that's how its going to stay. Much easier, cheaper and faster on the repair end. ....

I guess you still read by candlelight, cook on an open fire and ride a horse to work too...

This is just outdated 'horse and buggy' thinking. Electronics and fuel injection have been around way long enough to prove themselves well and truly better than carbs and Kettering. As far as reliability goes, here's the history of my own boat. And this is reflected right across all the boats I maintain.

1972 to 1994. In-line 6, Mercruiser '165'. Points and carb. Every year, replace the points, condenser and rotor. Set the timing, again. During the season, check the timing, adjust because that stupid little rubbing block wears. Every 4 or 5 years, pull the carb, clean and reset it. Cold starts a pain because the choke was based on a silly little coils' temperature. If the weather was a little warmer in the morning, the choke wasn't closed enough. If it was a little colder, the engine would flood because the choke was pulled too tight... ARRRRR!.

1994-2006 Mercruiser 4.3LX. Thunderbolt IV (fully electronic) ignition and carb. In the 12 years I owned it, never adjusted the timing. Checked it at new, then again about 3 years later. Hadn't moved. Sold the engine to a friend and installed it in his boat. Still hasn't moved (and that was as of about 6 months ago when I did the service). I have replaced the coil once, and only because water was dripping on it and the bottom got a corrosion hole and the oil leaked out. Other than that and spark plugs every 200 hours, I have not replaced a single part of the ignition system... Still have to pull the carb to bits every 4-5 years and go through the same deal, and these carbs have a nasty little drip problem... (Which is part of the reason for updating to the new engine)..

2006- current. Mercruiser 4.3MPI. In 8 years of ownership, the only thing I have done (apart from regular oil and filters of course (and my little oil leak problem, which is nothing to do with the fuel or ignition system :facepalm) is replaced one $49 IAC and one set of spark plugs. THAT'S IT! Cold starts, hot starts, warm starts, doesn't matter, flick the key and away we go. No pumping the throttle, and getting the throttle opened just the right amount so the engine will catch, and then working the throttle to try to keep it running until it's warm enough to keep going... MAP, ECT, MAT, TPS, CPS... All work together to get it right, and they do it day in, day out. Crisp fresh spring day morning or oppressive humid sultry summer afternoon... over a 100 adjustments done every second gets the engine running right first time, every time... Any day, all day....

Another advantage of MPI you may not be aware of is the knock sensor system. If you get a load of low grade fuel (or the fuel in your tank is a little old) the ECU will adjust the engine ignition and fuel systems to stop detonation damage. Let's see your carb and points pull that trick off.... Also MPI will 'automatically' adjust for altitude. And with that many sensors on the engine, you have a mechanical problem (loss of oil pressure, loss of cooling water), the ECU reduces the available power to protect the engine as much as possible, and that includes 'placci bagging' the drive water pump. With points and carb, you're rebuilding that engine, no question. With MPI you likely just repair the small problem and be back on the water again....

Here's another fact. An MPI engine produce more power and use about 30% LESS fuel doing it than a carb/points engine of the same capacity.

So, the next time someone says that points and carb is better, please explain to me, how?.... More expensive to maintain, more maintenance intensive, less reliable, and far less efficient.

Yes Lou, it's time for you to move into the 21st century. (or is it more likely to be dragged, kicking and screaming? :thumb But here's the really freaky bit... You're using a computer and the internet to convey your dislike of modern technology... :noidea:

Chris.....

 

[Lou C]

Yes I am lol. I know its a bit ironic, but if you want I'll send you a letter snail mail lol...
Here are a few examples that prove my points:

http://www.seastriper.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8867
Volvo Penta can't source a fuel pump that lasts apparently.

http://www.smwebhead.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13509
One of your countrymen here he could have used your help.Merc in their wisdom (planned obselescence) rigged this mess so the engine had to be pulled to replace the fuel module. Cost him over $2000 Australian.

Then on Boater Ed, there was another boat owner who had a '99 model boat and the MPI computer died. Merc said, too bad that part is NLA. Oh wait we have one if you want to spend about $4000 on it. So what do you think someone should do, when critical parts are NLA? This is the Achilles heel of new tech you are totally dependent on the OEM, till the aftermarket kicks in, if it ever does. Old tech, its ALL in the aftermarket. I can get whatever I want, a Marine Holley, Marine Edelbrock, or a re-man Q-Jet. It makes more sense, for people with old boats who want to keep them going. For anyone who can't get their carbed boat started, I'd be happy to give a few lessons.

Here in the USA we have emission inspections on cars. If you fail you must fix it no matter what it costs. Some vehicles are very sensitive to check engine lights and on some its almost an un-fixable issue. Cat converter replacements are common and can cost as much as $2000 US. I'd love to see what it costs to replace the marine units now in use. When, not if, the manifolds corrode out in salt water. I've heard over $2000 PER SIDE.....

So I'll continue to laugh all the way back to my ancient garage circa 1970 complete with tach dwell meters, feeler gauges and other cave man tools.....

PS, in 12 years of boating, the boat which is now 26 years old, has never refused to start. Two carb rebuilds and changed points not every year, maybe 3 times.

 

[thumpar]

The ECM is easy to source. They may cost $500-$1200 but how often do they fail? Probably as often as a drive fails which costs more.

 

[achris]

And for every failure of an MPI system you can find I'll find 10 of dirt clogging up a carb, a failed ballast resistor or resistive wire, or glazed points failing to produce spark. Or of a hundred other failures that will bring a points based system down. Yes, fixing electronics based systems needs new tools and techniques, but the farriers and blacksmiths of the 19th century had the same things to say about that new fangled car thing...



With the way new emission laws are going, carbed engines are going to be pushed out of the industry, thus the only engines anybody will be running are going to be MPIs....



Welcome to the new world.

 

[Outsider]

With due consideration of this urination contest, I don't have a 4.3, but rather a 5.7 Volvo Penta. TBI was available, I believe, starting in at least '94. Lots of advantages to a carb, to be sure, but I buy my engines to run, not to break down. Components are still readily available for my '94, should my fuel system ever become problematic ...

 

[Lou C]

No Title

I'm already here, but only for my vehicles, as you can see....I've done the Chrysler Hemi tune up with 16 spark plugs that the dealer charges $350 for, plus all the other maintenance this complex vehicle requires. The shop manual which I also have, is over 7,000 pages long. Yes you read that right.
And I'll still say, I can tell you I drove cars with carbs/old school ignition from 1972-1988, and was never stranded by a carb failure, only a points failure (fixed in ten minutes) on a '65 VW Beetle. I don't think most of you are even old enough to have had the experiences I have had.

Does no one restore classic muscle cars in Aust? Because of those that do here, 95% of them retain the old school systems because guess what, they are much more reliable if maintained than you might think. As I said, in all those years one failure on a VW. The cars I had always ran. I rebuilt a few carbs over the years, but only once in the time I owned the vehicles (VW needed it but just ran poorly, a '70 Ford also did same thing, the biggest pain was an '80 Honda with that 3bbl Keihin carb).....

I'll have to agree to disagree...

 

[achris]

I will continue with the 'urination contest' (and if you don't like it, just move on to the next post/thread. And thank you for NOT making negative comments when 2 people are just having a friendly discussion), as the ultimate winner will not be determined by any discussion here, but by the changes in legislation that WILL come. And old school engines without their emissions controlled according to environmental requirements will eventually be banned from use, including marine engines (have a look at California, already coming)... I know a lot of closed bodies of water have the use of 2 strokes banned. Non-emission controlled 4 stroke bans will come, and there will be very little anyone can do about that... (thankfully ray

And yes, muscle cars are restored here, only we don't call them 'muscle', they are 'classics'.. The only reason they are restored back to Carb and points is so they can be licensed. If the restoration deviates from anything original they are no longer considered 'restorations' and must meet the latest laws, including emissions, which none of them would meet, because they have, oh, carbs!

Do you know how many carb rebuilders there are left in my city? I think it's only 1, and he spends most of his time fitting ..... EFI conversions... :lol:

...Does no one restore classic muscle cars in Aust? Because of those that do here, 95% of them retain the old school systems because guess what, they are much more reliable if maintained than you might think. ...

Not disagreeing with this statement, but as you pointed out (and I bolded), 'if maintained'.... Guess what, with MPI there is no maintenance, which means Kettering is NO BETTER if maintained, but considerably worse if neglected. That's the thing with MPI, if you ignore it, it just keeps working for you, unlike points, which 'chuck a sad'...

Now, let's move on to the thing you claim is easier with a points engine, servicing. My list of tools and 'parts' for a standard annual engine service (this excludes the drive because essentially, they all require the same service)....

MPI engine.
Oil,
Oil filter,
Fuel filter,
Oil and fuel filter strap wrench.
Oil pan plug wrench (or, as I use, a vacuum tank to suck the oil out through the dipstick tube)
(if the job is the 5th annual service include the following)
New spark plugs,
Spark plug wrench.
Time to do the job: about 20 minutes....

Points engine
Oil,
Oil filter,
Fuel filter,
Oil and fuel filter strap wrench.
Oil pan plug wrench (or, as I use, a vacuum tank to suck the oil out through the dipstick tube)
New spark plugs,
Spark plug wrench.
New points,
New condensor,
New rotor,
Screwdriver for points screw
Feeler gauges,
Hand-held Dwell/Tach
Timing light
Remote starter switch
Screwdriver to adjust carb mixture and idle speed screws,
Knowledge of points gap, dwell, initial timing, and idle speed (usually in some form of service manual to be dragged up into the boat)
Time to do the job: about an hour.

Gee, I know which one is easier... :facepalm:

I'm already here, but only for my vehicles, as you can see....I've done the Chrysler Hemi tune up with 16 spark plugs that the dealer charges $350 for, plus all the other maintenance this complex vehicle requires. ...

Why are you paying a DEALER more than $21 each for spark plugs when you could be buying them from Summit for a third of that? And the other thing to consider is the service interval. Most modern engines with electronic ignition (usually controlled by an ECU) have a service interval of around 50K miles. Oh, and what 'other maintenance'? From what I can see you should be buying less, not more... Oh, you bought a Jeep, sorry... That explains it... also think on this...Given the spark plugs are (only slightly) more expensive, but the interval is 3 or more times longer, that makes the expensive plugs (and hence MPI/EFI) cheaper.... Q.E.D.....

Chris....

 

[Lou C]

Where did you get the $21 per plug price, my local dealer charges much less like $5-6 US. It takes a while to do because there are 16 plugs and you have to carefully move wiring harnesses out of the way in the Jeep installation at least. Have not done on a Ram yet....
You have to use the OE ones from the dealer because the ones sold in the aftermarket same part number do not work right. Long long thread on Jeepforum.com about stalling caused by this....
It takes me about 15 min to install and set up a set of points and it does NOT have to be done each season, more like every 5th one and this boat sits on a salt water mooring all season! I do change the cap n rotor if there is any green corrosion. If the engine runs well and the dwell is in spec I leave em be and I have only changed them 2x over 12 years worth...
I haven't touched on the cat converter exhaust replacement cost yet, I did some more research and it can come close to $3000 a side. Yes you read that right, you do a conventional exhaust it parts cost is maybe $400 a side if you are using OE. Do not make the mistake that because the USA EPA mandates something it is correct, reasonable and will work in the real world. All you have to do, is use a CARB compliant gasoline can, that we got from the nit wits in Washington, they spill gas all over the place.