Just a Sales Pitch????

Condor1970

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Jun 9, 2014
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As I decided to switch to running 15w-50 Mobil-1 fully synthetic in my Merc 3.0L, the guy at the Marina shop was telling me I should buy the Quicksilver 25w-40 he sells, because they found everyone who runs fully synthetic was getting rust and other corrosion in their engines after winterizing them. After a few years, they start losing HP because the rings and everything erode, and don't seal properly, and the cams and lifters wear out, because it doesn't stick to the surfaces inside like it should. He also said there isn't enough Zinc in the Mobil 1 like Quicksilver, so rust will also occur. I thought Mobil-1 has plenty of Zinc compared to the OEM oil. Something seems very fishy about this.


Is this just a BS sales pitch, to get me to buy oil from him?
 

Condor1970

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Somehow I think that is also a sales pitch. How do I know which oils they are comparing it to. Is there any real independent unbiased analysis of Mobil 1 vs Quicksilver oil?.

The most important rust inhibitor is zinc, so I just looked it up. Something doesn't seem right about this.

Mercury/Quicksilver oils have roughly 1100-1300ppm zinc.

Mobil 1 has 1200-1300ppm zinc.


I dont' get it.
 

Alumarine

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I would find a new shop. Very few marine engines wear and/or fail due to incorrect oil.
It's usually neglect that does them in.
 

Barramundi NQ

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If the argument was based on zinc content, then you're fine. What is the real concern over the type of oil used? If its cost, which is cheaper?By cheap I mean in the best longterm interests of your motor. Not the short term cost of using a cheaper priced oil of equal quality.
I know many ski boaters with marinised chev and ford bb and small blocks. All run automotive oils. That being said, whenever you use the specified oil you can never go wrong. It really sounds like it's really a personal decision. Enjoy
 

midcarolina

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Ah......... it's a sales pitch, the owner/service manager has promised some kind of incentive to the employee that sells the most Quicksilver oil......
 

HT32BSX115

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Yeah. It may be a sales pitch but the Mercruiser oil (and other "marine oils") do comply with the NMMA FC-W specification. http://www.nmma.org/certification/certification/oil/fc-w.aspx

You can read the entire spec and make your own decision but one of the specifications IS corrosion in a marine engine in a marine (salt) environment.
I. FC-W® Rust Test
SCOPE:
This procedure describes a standard test for evaluating the corrosion protection
performance of engine oils.
OBJECTIVE:
The objective of this test is to provide a standard method for making a
qualitative evaluation of the corrosion protection performance of engine oils.
This test compares the protection of coupons cut from actual cylinder liners in a
humid salt environment, and is intended to provide an indication of how well an
oil formulation protects cylinder bores from rust.

It's sort of why they developed the FC-W spec oil.

For most of us, that park our boats in a dry garage, it's probably not necessary.

But if I left my boat in a "salt" marina year round (or I lived "at the beach")...........I'd probably use either the Merc oil or other NMMA FC-W type oil.


Regards,


Rick
 

bruceb58

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Of course, many oils aren't submitted to the test so you never know if they would actually pass or not.
 

HT32BSX115

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Of course, many oils aren't submitted to the test so you never know if they would actually pass or not.

Quite true. But they wouldn't be labeled FC-W either.............

I'm not trying to advocate using the stuff though (I don't use it myself)

Since most of us probably only change our oil once a year or two, it really doesn't matter what it costs (to use more expensive oils) for an oil change when you compare it to the (possibly several) tanks of fuel you might use in a summer!
 

bruceb58

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I find it interesting that Volvo does not have their oil or gear lube certified and they also don't specify that it needs to be certified in their owners manuals.

I guess if go and pay for that certification you are are darn well going to mention it in your manuals like Mercury does! :)
 

midcarolina

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It's funny if you look at the list of FC-W oils the vast majority are manufacturer branded......... I would be willing to bet the other few are subsidiaries of the manufacturers.....................Just sayin
 

HT32BSX115

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I find it interesting that Volvo does not have their oil or gear lube certified and they also don't specify that it needs to be certified in their owners manuals.

I guess if go and pay for that certification you are are darn well going to mention it in your manuals like Mercury does! :)

I just assumed that Volvo did. The FC-W cert was primarily intended for outboard engines, which might be why Merc certified theirs along with most of the other outboard engine makers.............

And then there's FC-W(CAT) for the newest engines with cat-convertors. http://www.nmma.org/certification/certification/oil/fc-w.aspx


There is no NMMA marine certification for gear lube though.......

It's funny if you look at the list of FC-W oils the vast majority are manufacturer branded......... I would be willing to bet the other few are subsidiaries of the manufacturers.....................Just sayin
That's right. But of those manufacturers, most actually specify their particular FC-W marine oil.

So I guess one should assume that they formulate their marine (FC-W) oil different from their "standard" SAE SM/SG /CH/CH-4 etc oils...... (even though they may still meet the basic SAE gasoline engine category requirments)
 

HT32BSX115

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The FC-W oils also loose their API cert. and cannot claim API quality.

That's a good point if it's true. It may be that they don't actually "lose" the cert..........

They might be omitting the API desigation on their marine FC-W oils to keep from having to pay ASTM and/or API for the "privilege" of putting the API designations on the bottles! I am sure that there's a LOT of money that changes hands when SG/SM etc is plastered on containers of oil!!

AM$OIL doesn't do it on some of their oils and it's because they (presumably) don't want to pay for the certs.....

It's funny if you look at the list of FC-W oils the vast majority are manufacturer branded......... I would be willing to bet the other few are subsidiaries of the manufacturers.....................Just sayin
Let me also add that those "manufacturers" may not really "manufacture" the oil (or the additives package) either. (Volvo, Mercury, BRP, Nissan, Yamaha etc etc etc DON'T generally have their own refineries and chemical companies!) Consumer "Brand" loyalty is largely a result of the advertising propaganda we've been subjected to for virtually all our lives!

All those additives are "manufactured" mainly by Lubrizol, Shell Chemical, Chevron, and a handful of others. The base oils are traded around like all other petroleum commodities. When you buy a jug of oil with a particular name on it, what's inside might not be the same as it says on the outside.....
 
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bruceb58

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My guess is that the FC-W oils don't have some "Special" additives to make them get their certification but....it's just a guess.
 

Fun Times

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Let me also add that those "manufacturers" may not really "manufacture" the oil (or the additives package) either. (Volvo, Mercury, BRP, Nissan, Yamaha etc etc etc DON'T generally have their own refineries and chemical companies!) Consumer "Brand" loyalty is largely a result of the advertising propaganda we've been subjected to for virtually all our lives!
Merc holds a high portfolio investment in the oils they sell and they do their best to train their dealers to help sell the oils only because the folks at Merc truly believe in the oils they've highly invested in since they have spent lots of time and money working together with the oil manufactures they use by studying different oil effects in different types of environments and engine models.

I know most manufactures have their own labels when you walk into an auto dealership such as Mopar, Toyota and the list goes on and on and of course I'm not sure about how many of them have taken the time and money to work with an oil manufacturer but at Merc service school we were taught to believe Merc does. That mentioned, I do know that when you buy a new complete GM based engine from Merc or Volvo, it has straight 30w oil in it 'likely to be GM's oil brand'.

Mercury’s brand portfolio includes Mercury and Mariner, Mercury MerCruiser sterndrives and inboard engines, MotorGuide trolling motors, Mercury and Teignbridge propellers, Mercury inflatable boats, Mercury SmartCraft electronics, and Mercury and Quicksilver parts and oils. MotoTron electronic controls was also a part of Mercury Marine, but as of October 2008 Brunswick Corp. sold MotoTron and its intellectual properties to Woodward Governor of Fort Collins, CO.[SUP][7][/SUP]


 

HT32BSX115

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Merc holds a high portfolio investment in the oils they sell and they do their best to train their dealers to help sell the oils only because the folks at Merc truly believe in the oils
I have no doubt that they do "believe" in their products. But in reality. They're in business to make money.....and they want the dealers and distributors to "push" those products for that reason.

Don't get me wrong, there's absolutely nothing wrong with it. And I'm not averse to using those products. But they're not really "better" than equivalent products available on the market.....There was a time when manufacturers could literally force a consumer to use their products (or they would void or threaten to void the warranty etc) Luckily the Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act back in the 70's put the squash on that!
 

pevaguy

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I don't recall ever seeing a Mercury/Mercruiser oil well or oil refinery. I would imagine all the manufactures that have their own brands put a contract out for bid with the specifications they require. The low bidder that can meet their specifications would probably get the contract, be it Chevron, Exxon, Shell or whoever. So you may not always get oil produced by the same oil company, but it will be the same specification oil. Just my opinion.
 

HT32BSX115

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So you may not always get oil produced by the same oil company, but it will be the same specification oil. Just my opinion.
Yup. Same with gasoline, diesel and other petro products.

Back when I used to haul heavy fuel oil out of the Mohawk Refinery in Bakersfield, Ca, I would watch the gasoline trucks lining up to load in the morning. They'd be lined up across the yard and down the street. EVERY name (Chevron, Texaco, Unocal, 7-Eleven, Noname, etc etc) you could imagine would be loading up to deliver for the day. They didn't have different spigots for each name. Some drivers would use the "Special Sauce Spigot" for proprietary additives like Chevron Techroline etc, but most just filled up and went on down the road. In all the years since, That Mohawk refinery became Getty, Texaco, Chevron-Texaco, Shell, and a host of other names.........It's still there I believe but I don't know whose name is on the street now..... (For all you Arco Dislikers) Up here in the NW, Chevrons gasoline comes from the Arco Refinery.:rolleyes:

I have never been able to tell any difference in any fuel I ever used regardless of the name of the pump it came out of.............
 

500dollar744ti

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I do know that when you buy a new complete GM based engine from Merc or Volvo, it has straight 30w oil in it 'likely to be GM's oil brand'.

Ah yes, and that's why I use the same. Strait 30w of whatever is on sale.
 
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