Bravo 1 to Bravo 3

LawHungLow

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i have a 1994 maxum 2300 cuddy. it has a bravo 1 outdrive. ive read that i can just put the bravo 3 lower right on it. i'm familiar with alpha ones and ratios being changed in the upper.

my questions are -
1. are all bravo 3 lowers the same ratio?
2. how can i tell what ratio my upper is?
 

Bondo

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Re: Bravo 1 to Bravo 3

i have a 1994 maxum 2300 cuddy. it has a bravo 1 outdrive. ive read that i can just put the bravo 3 lower right on it. i'm familiar with alpha ones and ratios being changed in the upper.

my questions are -
1. are all bravo 3 lowers the same ratio?
2. how can i tell what ratio my upper is?

Ayuh,.... Welcome Aboard,..... #1,... Yep,....

#2,... What motor ya got,..??
What the serial number on the drive,..??
 

LawHungLow

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Re: Bravo 1 to Bravo 3

mercruiser 7.4 454 with a 21" prop

i'll have to wait till i get home to find the serial number.
 

LawHungLow

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Re: Bravo 1 to Bravo 3

what are the ratio options for bravo 1 uppers?

what are the ratio options for bravo 3 uppers?
 

LawHungLow

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Re: Bravo 1 to Bravo 3

if it is a 1.5, is that a good one to bolt a bravo 3 up to?
what props would be best suited to maintain current speeds of 45-50?
 

Fun Times

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Re: Bravo 1 to Bravo 3

Actually there is a difference between bravo 3 lower unit gear ratios. So you do have to be careful what lower unit you buy to stay within Mercruisers over all recommendations.

If the B-3 lower unit is known to be an original, then one of the best ways to know what your getting would be to know what the B-3 upper drive housing ratio was to begin with.

To know that, have a look at the decal on the port side of the upper gear case housing of the B-3. It should have a number like 1.50R followed by the serial number. Also if the upper drive unit is removed from the boat, you should be able to find a letter on the universal joint splined yoke.

Next, using the letters or known upper gear ratio referenced in the chart below should help indicate what gear teeth count you'll need to try and find for an overall matching gear ratio.

Overall Ratio..Upper.....Lower Gear Teeth Counts

N = 2.43:1.....23:30.....13:24

K = 2.20:1.....23:30.....16:27

B = 2.00:1.....27:32.....16:27

G = 1.81:1.....27:29.....16:27

C = 1.65:1.....27:32.....18:25

F = 1.50:1.....27:32.....15:19

P = 1.36:1.....27:29.....15:19

Since your serial number posted above comes up as an MERCRUISER BI-ROTATION BRAVO 1, 1.50:1R -(BRAVO 1 (1994)
Serial No: 0F263429 Model No: 5120150GS Parts Catalog Part No: 17721 you'll want to find a lower that came off either a 1.36 or 1.50:1 upper housing.

Here is some additional information that may help you in your searches. See item numbers 14 then read the descriptions. (Number of teeth per gear)
http://www.mercruiserparts.com/Show...sc=GEAR+HOUSING(BRAVO+III)(ONE+PIECE+HOUSING)

Boatinfo - Mercruiser Service Manual nr. 28 - 1999-2006 - Bravo One, Two, Three & XZ/XR Sterndrives

Also one other small detail comes to mind. You'll need to know/check if your Bravo 1 is set up for left or right hand rotation. If it's left hand rotation you would need to switch the cable at the shifter control unit. But most likely you have a right hand rotation as most boats are so you would be good to just install the B-3 lower unit. To be sure, read here Boatinfo - Mercruiser Service Manual nr. 28 - 1999-2006 - Bravo One, Two, Three & XZ/XR Sterndrives

Hope this helps, Good luck.:)
 

HT32BSX115

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Re: Bravo 1 to Bravo 3

i have a 1994 maxum 2300 cuddy. it has a bravo 1 outdrive. ive read that i can just put the bravo 3 lower right on it. i'm familiar with alpha ones and ratios being changed in the upper.

my questions are -
1. are all bravo 3 lowers the same ratio?
2. how can i tell what ratio my upper is?

Yes you can just "bolt' a Bravo III "lower" under pretty much any Bravo upper.

You likely have a 1.5:1 drive. It should say on the side (as long as no one has changed it and didn't change the sticker)


I have a 1.81:1 drive behind my carbed 7.4L V-8 on my 21ft Four Winns Liberator (2900lb boat, 1250lb eng/drive= approx 4200lb + people, gear/gas)

With 26p props, I can turn about 4400 RPM at WOT. if I am light, and in very light chop, I can turn 4600 (@57mph)

With 24p props, I am up against the rev limiter at 4700RPM if lightly loaded and in very light chop.

I recently picked up a newer 4-blade(front) with 3-blade rear propset (24p) but I haven't tried it yet.

I suspect it'll be a little better in the hole shot but slightly slower in the top end.

a 1.5:1 ratio will require you to select VERY LOW ratio prop-set. Like 20 or 22 pitch.....lower pitch propsets are possibly not available........... You would have to go to 4-blade front/back props ($$$ MORE) to get more blades in the water.

Going to a Bravo III will absolutely improve your hole-shop and low speed handling. but I don't think you'll want a ratio any steeper than 1.81:1

Cheers,


Rick
bravoIIIa.gif
 

LawHungLow

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Re: Bravo 1 to Bravo 3

has anyone ever put a bravo 3 lower to a bravo 1 upper?
if so, how much did you have to prop down?
it sounds like if i put the b3 on it, it will make it lower than 1.5 originally making it even tougher on push the say 21" pitch.
and dropping to a 20" may not get me to where i need to be.
but it may also depend on the ratio of the lower.
is there any way to tell what ratio the lower is without taking it apart and counting teeth?
i'm concerned because i dont think they make the prop pairs for the b3 any lower than 20" pitch.
 

mr300z87

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Re: Bravo 1 to Bravo 3

Hi, first I want to mention that I am no expert or marine mechanic, just a shade tree car and boat enthusiast who likes to understand what I am working on. A few years ago I was researching a similar situation looking to do a Bravo 2 to Bravo 1 conversion. Anyway in my research I found out that the Bravo drive ratio is a combination of the upper and lower gearing. In both bravo manuals #11 and #28 there is a good description of how these work out. My 2.0 ratio B2 combined with what I feel is the most common B1 lower made 1.5 Ratio overall. It also seems that the most common ratio combination for the B3 (same upper gearing as 1.5 B1) is 2.0. Since I am not running a B3 I can not help with prop selection but it would seem that with the correct lower finding the right pitch prop should not be a problem. One warning is have you seen the cost of B3 props. Hope this helps.
 

LawHungLow

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Re: Bravo 1 to Bravo 3

i understand that experimenting with different pitch props can get pricey. i will see how it goes i guess.
any info on places that might let you experiment to see what workd best?
i guess if i was in with a local marina, they might let me play around with some.
 

Fun Times

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Re: Bravo 1 to Bravo 3

Maybe you can ask if they offer any type of in house quick turn around propeller demo program to try out a few sizes one day.

What area are you in?
 

HT32BSX115

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Re: Bravo 1 to Bravo 3

Once you determine exactly what your ratio really is, you can use a prop-slip calculator to get in the "ballpark" on approx what prop pitch you should aim for.

My similarly powered similar weight boat performs well with the 24p props & 1.81:1 drive.

If you increased the drive ratio to 2.0:1 you would probably want to start with 26 or 28P props.

If the drive ended up at 1.5:1 you'd probably want to go to a 22p prop-set. 22p props are not as plentiful (on ebay) as 24.

Ultimately you want the engine to run max RPM (4600 for most carbed 454's) @ Wide Open Throttle (WOT)

I am going to guess your Maxim 2300 is approx 23' long and weighs around 3000-3500lbs (minus engine/drive)?

What sort of performance do you get now? (around 55 mph @ WOT? What RPM?)

Your top speed performance will not be better with a Bravo III (maybe a tad slower.. 3-5mph) But the holeshot performance will surprise you.
 
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LawHungLow

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Re: Bravo 1 to Bravo 3

i dont remember top speeds and rpm from last year. only had it a little while. i'm gonna shoot for a cheap set of props for now. 22p if i can get them and see where to go from there. if not, i'll go 24p.
 

HT32BSX115

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Re: Bravo 1 to Bravo 3

Once you get the lower bolted on, You can easily determine your ratio by simply removing the spark-plugs, put a wrench on the engine and turn it.

While turning it place it in either FWD or REV (don't put it in gear unless you're turning the crankshaft)

Once in gear, turn the engine 10 turns and have a helper count blades. try to estimate the last turn of the prop (it'll likely be fractional 1/2, 3/4 etc)

Or, just measure the last turn of the prop in degrees. (90, 120, 180 etc..........a fractional turn would be 180 degrees divided by 360 = 0.5 turn etc

Then use your calculator to determine ratio if it's not an easy fraction.



I.E. if 10 turns of the crankshaft produces approx 5 1/2 turns of the prop ==> 10 divided by 5.5 = 1.81:1 ratio.............

10 turns : 5 turns===> 2.0 to 1 ................

10 input shaft turns : 4 1/2 prop turns ===> 2.20:1 etc etc.

Once you know your ratio, you can determine *approx* the prop pitch needed to give you max RPM at WOT.

to do this you would use a prop-slip calculator such as Prop Slip Calculator

You can change parameters as needed to estimate........leave one blank to calculate it.................... In a planing type hull you would use somewhere around 10-15% slip. Then use the approx speed you know the the engine (@WOT) should push the boat lightly loaded.

Since you're using a 7.4L engine, you're likely at 4600 RPM at MAX power. So if you know the approx full speed, say, 57 MPH (with the Bravo I) Then use 4600 RPM, 52MPH (because you'll probably be around 3 mph slower) and about 12% slip. when you know your drive ratio, you can get some ballpark numbers by playing with variables. (prop pitch)

The boat is certainly NOT going to go any faster (& likely slower) with the Bravo III so if you calculate using prop pitches that give you much higher speeds you'll know that they're not going to work.


let me also add that I just noticed you're working on a Searay 250 Sundancer. Since that boat might be a little heavier than other faster boats, your slip numbers might be a little higher.

Also, larger (slower boats) will have higher ratio Bravo III drives.

My 7.4L +1.81:1 Bravo III came out of a 24ft (cuddy) Bayliner. According to the previous owner, with the 24p props, it did about 50-55 mph @ 4600 RPM.
 
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LawHungLow

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Re: Bravo 1 to Bravo 3

let me also add that I just noticed you're working on a Searay 250 Sundancer. Since that boat might be a little heavier than other faster boats, your slip numbers might be a little higher.

I'm not working on a sundancer. Mine is a 94 Maxum 2300.

You answered the question I was going to ask about the ratio and how to figure out what it is by turning it.
very good information. Thanks!

Can i leave the upper on the boat to remove the B1 and install the B3?
Or is it easier to take the whole thing off like with the alphas?
Also any tips to make the swap go smoothly? (things to do before, during or after)
 

HT32BSX115

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Re: Bravo 1 to Bravo 3

I'm not working on a sundancer. Mine is a 94 Maxum 2300.

You answered the question I was going to ask about the ratio and how to figure out what it is by turning it.
very good information. Thanks!

Can i leave the upper on the boat to remove the B1 and install the B3?
Or is it easier to take the whole thing off like with the alphas?
Also any tips to make the swap go smoothly? (things to do before, during or after)

My mistake! I forgot what boat you were working on and scrolled up and looked at the wrong post!!

You could easily do it with the upper still installed..........However, I would still remove it because Mercruiser recommends checking the alignment every year and it would really be a good idea to check the drive bellows and U-joints for condition, oil, water etc.

Also, if you don't have a helper, once it's off and you have the drive sitting on a table or on a stand, you could easily turn the input shaft while counting prop turns to get the resulting ratio.

Make sure you fill it from the bottom when you do fill it. Use a good synthetic drive oil. (Mercury HP, Mobil 1, Am$oil marine, etc etc)
 

LawHungLow

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Re: Bravo 1 to Bravo 3

I have the alpha one alignment tool. Will that work on the Bravo?
I also have the pump to fill the alpha. I assume it's the same for the bravo.
 
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